Author Topic: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre  (Read 422449 times)

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Offline Machiavelli

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1625 on: January 18, 2018, 04:01:13 pm »
Star Trek takes PC to new extremes, even for Hollywood

Ed Straker
American Thinker
January 17, 2018

Quote
Those of you (most of you) who haven't been watching the new Star Trek series, Star Trek Discovery, are missing out on a entirely new level of political correctness.  The show features a black female protagonist named Michael; her boyfriend, a Klingon disguised as a Muslim-Arab security officer; an obese female cadet who is a genius in all areas of science; and a gay couple, one of whom is black and possibly also hispanic.

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Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1626 on: January 18, 2018, 05:52:18 pm »
Star Trek takes PC to new extremes, even for Hollywood

Ed Straker
American Thinker
January 17, 2018

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Same road they Started out on. Just decades further down the road.

No personal money. No personal weapons. One World Govt.

InterGalactic Federation/United Planets.

P$$s on Rottenbury. He was always a Socialist One World Order/New World Order Cretin.
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Vol 3 opens with the rigged murder trial of the villain in a Viking Court under Viking law to set the stage for the hero's own murder trial.

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Offline Emjay

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1627 on: January 18, 2018, 11:34:17 pm »

Same road they Started out on. Just decades further down the road.

No personal money. No personal weapons. One World Govt.

InterGalactic Federation/United Planets.

P$$s on Rottenbury. He was always a Socialist One World Order/New World Order Cretin.

Okay, can't agree on Rodenberry ... he was pretty much a genius.

And it's stupid to argue about future politics or world order.  We have no way of knowing.

But I'm watching a lot of original Star Trek episodes and they are amazingly still interesting.

One thing I've noticed is that the show is totally sexist.  Even the middle-aged nurse has to wear a skirt barely above her undies.  I've never seen Spock's legs, though I'm not sure I'd want to, but every female wears a really sexy outfit.
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Offline Gefn

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1628 on: January 18, 2018, 11:54:30 pm »
Yes but didn't most women wear mini skirts in the late 60s?

Nurse Chapel and Lt Uhura also wore go go boots.

Has anyone here seen the animated version?

Trippy and great story lines,
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 11:55:42 pm by Freya »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1629 on: January 19, 2018, 12:01:47 am »
Okay, can't agree on Rodenberry ... he was pretty much a genius.

And it's stupid to argue about future politics or world order.  We have no way of knowing.

But I'm watching a lot of original Star Trek episodes and they are amazingly still interesting.

One thing I've noticed is that the show is totally sexist.  Even the middle-aged nurse has to wear a skirt barely above her undies.  I've never seen Spock's legs, though I'm not sure I'd want to, but every female wears a really sexy outfit.
While some say Roddenberry is a man of vision, so was Heinlein (Starship Troopers, etc.), but both smack of societies which have a combination of totalitarianism and wht on a planetary scale is a one world government.

While interstellar and even interplanetary societies will likely require resource allocation/control on a planetary scale, the downplaying of the frontier which requires that the individual and small groups have self-determination in order to face the challenges of pioneering is played down to a great extent. The sad part is that the gap from here to there is never bridged philosophically or functionally except for brief moments as a plot device or filled in backstory. The effect is to glorify the collective at the expense of the very sort of rugged individualism that will be needed to make the advancements and discoveries which will spur that development on a broader scale.

To use an earthly analogy, in the westward expansion of the US, it was the fortune seekers, those wanting freedom or asylum who blazed the trails, and who were often equally uncomfortable with the constraints of populous and allegedly civilized larger enclaves of society which followed in their wake. Fur trappers, gold prospectors, and the like were the cutting edge, and often uncomfortable or unwelcome in the towns which only wanted their wares and their money and their subsequent absence.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline sneakypete

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1630 on: January 19, 2018, 12:09:14 am »
While some say Roddenberry is a man of vision, so was Heinlein (Starship Troopers, etc.), but both smack of societies which have a combination of totalitarianism and wht on a planetary scale is a one world government.

While interstellar and even interplanetary societies will likely require resource allocation/control on a planetary scale, the downplaying of the frontier which requires that the individual and small groups have self-determination in order to face the challenges of pioneering is played down to a great extent. The sad part is that the gap from here to there is never bridged philosophically or functionally except for brief moments as a plot device or filled in backstory. The effect is to glorify the collective at the expense of the very sort of rugged individualism that will be needed to make the advancements and discoveries which will spur that development on a broader scale.

To use an earthly analogy, in the westward expansion of the US, it was the fortune seekers, those wanting freedom or asylum who blazed the trails, and who were often equally uncomfortable with the constraints of populous and allegedly civilized larger enclaves of society which followed in their wake. Fur trappers, gold prospectors, and the like were the cutting edge, and often uncomfortable or unwelcome in the towns which only wanted their wares and their money and their subsequent absence.

@Smokin Joe

Not a good analogy. Traveling to distant planets is a whole lot more complex and expensive than throwing some tools in the back of a wagon,hooking up the oxen,and then camping along the way as you hunt or trap game to eat.

Like it or not,but it took governments to even get this ball rolling,and it will take governments to establish space colonies. Anybody who crosses their screens with "rugged individualist" as a character trait ain't going. ONLY team players get the ride.

Has to be that way.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1631 on: January 19, 2018, 12:38:26 am »
@Smokin Joe

Not a good analogy. Traveling to distant planets is a whole lot more complex and expensive than throwing some tools in the back of a wagon,hooking up the oxen,and then camping along the way as you hunt or trap game to eat.

Like it or not,but it took governments to even get this ball rolling,and it will take governments to establish space colonies. Anybody who crosses their screens with "rugged individualist" as a character trait ain't going. ONLY team players get the ride.

Has to be that way.
A lone wagon was a great way to enter the rosters of the dead and disappeared along the trail. Not only were the folks jumping off at St. Joe entering an alien world with challenges different from the one they were leaving, they were often not equipped nor prepared to deal with it either. Trail sides were littered with cast off stuff and the graves of the dead. They moved in groups, as a rule, for safety from hostiles, but the security of being able to pool resources and capitalize on the knowledge of leaders, but even that came mostly later.

The loners moved in small groups of convenience and necessity as well. Only a few moved as individuals.

The resources needed to get there now (space) are as huge and uncommon as were Conestoga wagons in 1820. With time, that will change. There will be an era of the Model T as spaceships go.

As with aviation, when the war (WWI) was over, the surplus planes were cheap, the rules few, and the intrepid with some resources most likely to succeed. The same will happen with space, and equipment out there. It will take much more, but as we expand that sense of freedom will return with a group who just see the challenges of space as everyday things. They will learn orbital mechanics and astrogation at their granny's knee, and with some losses, will step out and explore on their own, not necessarily as individuals, but as smaller and primarily commercial concerns, independent of a central government as they can be. So were the fur traders, prospectors, and eventually settlers (game changer, because they are civilization, complete with its rules) who follow. (Air and fuel, delta V will just be added to the list of necessities with food and water and shelter from the outside elements (radiation) and electrical power.)

Don't think for a second, that as with those earlier explorers, the government won't follow, fastest where the lucrative resources are.
It is human nature to want to reap the benefits of your risks and not send the bulk of that off to some bureaucrat in a far more secure and, by your local standards, luxurious location.

Without that individual/small group initiative, that expansion will be far slower, and the 'big boys' will be hot on its heels.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline kevindavis007

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1632 on: January 19, 2018, 01:10:57 am »
The reality is this, who knows what our future will be like?


Will it be like The Expanse?
Will it be like Firefly?
Will it be like Star Trek?
Will it be like Babylon 5?
Will it be like The Orville?




Who knows..
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1633 on: January 19, 2018, 01:17:24 am »
The reality is this, who knows what our future will be like?


Will it be like The Expanse?
Will it be like Firefly?
Will it be like Star Trek?
Will it be like Babylon 5?
Will it be like The Orville?




Who knows..
Well, that's the beauty of having a multitude of potential hypothetical options to explore and eliminate or emulate. We can do that with CGI and plot lines and the freedom to create a multitude of possible futures before we make the first weld in a LOX tank. We can also decide what sort of future we want and how to avoid the pitfalls of conflict which will endanger it and still allow for as much Liberty as possible.

(You left out "To Serve Man"... ^-^)
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 01:18:08 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1634 on: January 19, 2018, 01:20:13 am »
Okay, can't agree on Rodenberry ... he was pretty much a genius.

And it's stupid to argue about future politics or world order.  We have no way of knowing.

But I'm watching a lot of original Star Trek episodes and they are amazingly still interesting.

One thing I've noticed is that the show is totally sexist.  Even the middle-aged nurse has to wear a skirt barely above her undies.  I've never seen Spock's legs, though I'm not sure I'd want to, but every female wears a really sexy outfit.


At 6:29

That's Lurch (Ted Cassidy)

! No longer available

Some of the episodes were written by Sci-Fi Authors like David Gerrold, and without them . . . . but not Roddenbury.
My 'Viking Hunter' High Adventure Alternate History Series is FREE, ALL 3 volumes, at most ebook retailers including Ibooks, Barnes and Noble, Kobo, and more.

In Vol 2 the weapons come out in a winner take all war on two fronts.

Vol 3 opens with the rigged murder trial of the villain in a Viking Court under Viking law to set the stage for the hero's own murder trial.

http://wulfanson.blogspot.com

Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1635 on: January 19, 2018, 02:41:47 am »
The reality is this, who knows what our future will be like?


Will it be like The Expanse?
Will it be like Firefly?
Will it be like Star Trek?
Will it be like Babylon 5?
Will it be like The Orville?




Who knows..

I do.

Idiocracy.
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Offline Ghost Bear

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1636 on: January 19, 2018, 03:17:45 am »
The reality is this, who knows what our future will be like?

Will it be like The Expanse?
Will it be like Firefly?
Will it be like Star Trek?
Will it be like Babylon 5?
Will it be like The Orville?

Who knows..

Babylon 5...

« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 03:18:12 am by Ghost Bear »
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Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1637 on: January 19, 2018, 05:05:21 am »
@Smokin Joe

Not a good analogy. Traveling to distant planets is a whole lot more complex and expensive than throwing some tools in the back of a wagon,hooking up the oxen,and then camping along the way as you hunt or trap game to eat.

Like it or not,but it took governments to even get this ball rolling,and it will take governments to establish space colonies. Anybody who crosses their screens with "rugged individualist" as a character trait ain't going. ONLY team players get the ride.

Has to be that way.

Chuck Yeager made that point

People assumed that he would have been a shoe in for a NASA ride but he said himself that it would have never worked. He was a rule breaker and an envelope pusher and those things get you killed in space. The first astronauts were very highly educated and calm tempered men who followed orders and went by the book.

Offline Emjay

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1638 on: January 20, 2018, 01:45:44 am »

At 6:29

That's Lurch (Ted Cassidy)

! No longer available

Some of the episodes were written by Sci-Fi Authors like David Gerrold, and without them . . . . but not Roddenbury.

I know.  I guess Philip K. Dick is the sci fi author who inspired most TV.  But Roddenberry had the drive to put this show together and get it aired.
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Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1639 on: January 20, 2018, 02:05:45 am »
I know.  I guess Philip K. Dick is the sci fi author who inspired most TV.  But Roddenberry had the drive to put this show together and get it aired.

Apples and Oranges @Emjay

Being a Writer and being a Media/TV/Film Producer are completely different skill sets.
My 'Viking Hunter' High Adventure Alternate History Series is FREE, ALL 3 volumes, at most ebook retailers including Ibooks, Barnes and Noble, Kobo, and more.

In Vol 2 the weapons come out in a winner take all war on two fronts.

Vol 3 opens with the rigged murder trial of the villain in a Viking Court under Viking law to set the stage for the hero's own murder trial.

http://wulfanson.blogspot.com

Offline kevindavis007

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1640 on: January 20, 2018, 02:39:45 am »
I know.  I guess Philip K. Dick is the sci fi author who inspired most TV.  But Roddenberry had the drive to put this show together and get it aired.


Roddenberry had an good idea, but his execution was horrible.  Also his actions with the females almost got his ass fired by Lucille Ball (When Desilu owned Star Trek).
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Offline Emjay

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1641 on: January 20, 2018, 03:33:24 am »
Apples and Oranges @Emjay

Being a Writer and being a Media/TV/Film Producer are completely different skill sets.

Well, yeah, I certainly realize that and good writers are really needed in Hollywood and on TV.

But I'm defending Roddenbery for having the vision to see that a series like Star Trek would actually work and have the persistence to get it produced and aired.
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Offline Emjay

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1642 on: January 20, 2018, 04:50:51 am »

Roddenberry had an good idea, but his execution was horrible.  Also his actions with the females almost got his ass fired by Lucille Ball (When Desilu owned Star Trek).

Well, the franchise he started was probably the most successful ever ... so there's that.

And I know nothing about his actions with females but we're finding out that Hollywood, including TV, was a cesspool.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1643 on: January 20, 2018, 05:04:50 am »
Well, the franchise he started was probably the most successful ever ... so there's that.

And I know nothing about his actions with females but we're finding out that Hollywood, including TV, was a cesspool.
It has been successful, spawning a host of spin-off story lines. I guess it depends on how you define successful, but in the media world, that just means you are the guy to beat on the bottom line. Competition is and will continue to be fierce. As for length of run, though, Dr. Who has Star Trek beat hands down.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1644 on: January 20, 2018, 05:11:52 am »
It has been successful, spawning a host of spin-off story lines. I guess it depends on how you define successful, but in the media world, that just means you are the guy to beat on the bottom line. Competition is and will continue to be fierce. As for length of run, though, Dr. Who has Star Trek beat hands down.

I was thinking about Dr Who as well. The show was almost stillborn due to the fact that the pilot aired on the same day as the JFK assassination. However the loss of William Hartnell both nearly killed the show and gave it immortality.

Offline DB

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1645 on: January 20, 2018, 05:13:51 am »
It has been successful, spawning a host of spin-off story lines. I guess it depends on how you define successful, but in the media world, that just means you are the guy to beat on the bottom line. Competition is and will continue to be fierce. As for length of run, though, Dr. Who has Star Trek beat hands down.

And Dr. Who is now a woman...

Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1646 on: January 20, 2018, 05:18:06 am »
And Dr. Who is now a woman...

Doctor Who is not a human and is for all intensive purposes, sexless.

The Master becoming the Mistress has been great.

Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1647 on: January 20, 2018, 06:28:35 am »
Doctor Who is not a human and is for all intensive purposes, sexless.

The Master becoming the Mistress has been great.

Killed me that Marvel Comics didn't see it coming when they changed the Viking God Thor into a Woman, and then lost money because of it.
My 'Viking Hunter' High Adventure Alternate History Series is FREE, ALL 3 volumes, at most ebook retailers including Ibooks, Barnes and Noble, Kobo, and more.

In Vol 2 the weapons come out in a winner take all war on two fronts.

Vol 3 opens with the rigged murder trial of the villain in a Viking Court under Viking law to set the stage for the hero's own murder trial.

http://wulfanson.blogspot.com

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1648 on: January 20, 2018, 08:36:36 am »
Killed me that Marvel Comics didn't see it coming when they changed the Viking God Thor into a Woman, and then lost money because of it.
Guys saw him as someone to emulate, the chicks liked the beefcake, the gender change was a loser.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Sanguine

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1649 on: January 20, 2018, 02:34:52 pm »
Killed me that Marvel Comics didn't see it coming when they changed the Viking God Thor into a Woman, and then lost money because of it.

Well...yeah, Thor epitomizes masculinity and Dr. Who, not so much.