Author Topic: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre  (Read 421446 times)

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Offline RoosGirl

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1275 on: August 05, 2017, 03:46:34 pm »
'The Dark Tower' is getting poor reviews, here's 7 great Stephen King movies

Steve Tilley
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  • Carrie (1976)
  • Misery (1990)
  • Stand by Me (1986)
  • The Shawshank Redemption (1994)
  • The Dead Zone (1983)
  • It (1990)
  • The Shining (1980)

This doesn't really surprise me.  There are some novels that just don't lend themselves to being good movies.  I think our imaginations use the words to create an image that could never be recreated with much success on the big screen.  I'm curious to see how "It" does in the theater.  I think that comes out in September.  I didn't care for the first one, which I thought was boring, compared to actually reading the novel which scared the hell out of me.

Offline LateForLunch

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1276 on: August 05, 2017, 05:11:54 pm »
This doesn't really surprise me.  There are some novels that just don't lend themselves to being good movies.  I think our imaginations use the words to create an image that could never be recreated with much success on the big screen.  I'm curious to see how "It" does in the theater.  I think that comes out in September.  I didn't care for the first one, which I thought was boring, compared to actually reading the novel which scared the hell out of me.

Wow. You are reading my mind. Excellent post, Chatelaine!

Reviewers panned the Dark Tower for years. My own belief is that this was one of the last "alcohol-fueled" works by King. He has admitted that he often drank heavily while he was writing. That obviously explains the grotesque UNEVENESS of many King books. I virtually ALWAYS had to skip over vast passages (often whole chapters) of King's meandering, unfocused, downright poor writing in several of his novels. Only his earlier ones (The Stand, the Shining etc.) seem to have been spared his proclivity to repeatedly digress into plodding, wandering, pointless delineations.

Dark Tower though brilliant in places, was overall horribly disappointing to me. The ending (a favorite target of critics) was so lame that it was almost comical.

When one adds the H-Wood habit of  "dumbing-down" material, I frankly cannot see how a film that attempted to condense (eight books = 4,250 pages) about 200 HOURS of reading time into 120 minutes could be anything but an almost complete waste of time (creatively speaking). 

It is a clue at how unsuitable the material was that no production company was willing to serialize the content into several movies, so instead it got distilled it into a single film. Doing one film instead of a series is always the safer approach to producing material that one isn't sure will pan out creatively.
 
King sold out any sort of creative integrity or loyalty to seeing his own work treated with  dignity or respect by T.V. or film makers YEARS ago.

I frankly think that he is probably a fairly pedestrian, boring person in real life. He is after all, a committed, radical leftist in his politics, which suggests that (his arguable talent as a writer notwithstanding), he is neither very moral nor very bright.

I'll tell you some books that might well be worth making into films or serial cable shows, Ann Rice's, "Christ the Lord" series (magnificent), her savage, horrifying "Servant of the Bones" or Gene Wolfe's astonishingly well-articulated "Urth of the New Sun" series. But they are lengthy, very character-driven and not very politically correct so it would have to be an independant studio with the vision and fortitude to do some very hard work ( and invest some serious cash) to make them creative successes.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 05:35:40 pm by LateForLunch »
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Offline RoosGirl

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1277 on: August 05, 2017, 05:31:31 pm »

I'll tell you some books that might well be worth making into films or serial cable shows, Ann Rice's, "Christ the Lord" series (magnificent), her savage, horrifying "Servant of the Bones" or Gene Wofe's astonishingly well-articulated "Urth of the New Sun" series. But they are lengthy, very character-driven and not very politically correct so it would have to be an independant studio that banked the productions.

I haven't read any of those, I will have to check them out.  Though I will say, regarding Ann Rice, I tried the Vampire series, whichever one they made into the movie with Cruise and Pitt that for some reason I cannot remember the name of right now, and I couldn't get past the first chapter.

Tell me, have you read Rose Madder and what did you think of it?  I have pretty much stopped reading King.  I think I read everything of his up through Needful Things, except I have read all of The Dark Tower books, and then just stopped.  Except for Rose Madder which for some reason I find myself wanting to re-read every few years and I never want to re-read books.  But, I find my taste has changed more towards epic fantasy the last 10 years or so.

By the way, I've been so underwhelmed with the thought of The Dark Tower movie that I didn't know it was all condensed into one movie!  Wow.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 05:32:41 pm by RoosGirl »

Offline Machiavelli

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1278 on: August 05, 2017, 05:41:05 pm »
Using the standard critic four star rating:
  • Carrie (1976) - *** Didn't like it the first time I saw it but it grew on me. Liked the book.
  • Misery (1990) - Never saw it or read the book.
  • Stand by Me (1986) - *** Liked it. Also liked the novella The Body upon which it was based.
  • The Shawshank Redemption (1994) - Never saw it. Liked the novella Rita Hayworth and Shawshank Redemption upon which it was based.
  • The Dead Zone (1983) - ***1/2 Liked it a lot. Liked it better than the book.
  • It (1990) - **1/2 Ho hum. Never read the book.
  • The Shining (1980) - *** Didn't like it the first time I saw it but it grew on me. Liked the book.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 05:41:36 pm by Machiavelli »

Offline EC

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1279 on: August 05, 2017, 05:42:27 pm »
Tell me, have you read Rose Madder and what did you think of it?  I have pretty much stopped reading King.  I think I read everything of his up through Needful Things, except I have read all of The Dark Tower books, and then just stopped.  Except for Rose Madder which for some reason I find myself wanting to re-read every few years and I never want to re-read books.  But, I find my taste has changed more towards epic fantasy the last 10 years or so.

Try Duma Key. It's one of his I keep reading over and over - about the only one in recent years. Got his last two in hardback (all my King's are hardbacks, it makes an easy present pick for the missus) and haven't even cracked them open. Just lost interest, I guess.  :shrug:
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Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1280 on: August 05, 2017, 05:54:51 pm »
Just lost interest, I guess. 

That's, IMO, an ample review of just about every one of King's books.  He's great at coming up with characters and environments and sets a great stage, but then it's like he just loses interest and writes a couple hundred pages until he can cash a paycheck.  It'd be great if he just worked as an idea man who handed off his concepts to real writers.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1281 on: August 05, 2017, 07:32:53 pm »
Well I guess CBS Salavation is going to canceled..  Nice concept...

I managed to screw up and miss the first episode,so I have put off recording the ones I did get,hoping to find and watch the first episode first.

IF it is any good,maybe it will get picked up by one of the independent channels?
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1282 on: August 05, 2017, 09:02:24 pm »
I managed to screw up and miss the first episode,so I have put off recording the ones I did get,hoping to find and watch the first episode first.

IF it is any good,maybe it will get picked up by one of the independent channels?


or maybe either on Amazon, Netflix or Hulu.


I doubt it will.. It has every cliche...
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Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1283 on: August 05, 2017, 09:38:10 pm »
I managed to screw up and miss the first episode,so I have put off recording the ones I did get,hoping to find and watch the first episode first.

IF it is any good,maybe it will get picked up by one of the independent channels?

I also "missed" the first episode, but watched it on the CBS website.  Don't bother.
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Offline Ghost Bear

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1284 on: August 05, 2017, 09:47:39 pm »
I also "missed" the first episode, but watched it on the CBS website.  Don't bother.

@InHeavenThereIsNoBeer and @sneakypete , agreed, by the third episode I was cheering for the asteroid to hit and wipe out the cast. We've stopped recording and watching it.
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1285 on: August 05, 2017, 09:52:08 pm »
@InHeavenThereIsNoBeer and @sneakypete , agreed, by the third episode I was cheering for the asteroid to hit and wipe out the cast. We've stopped recording and watching it.



@InHeavenThereIsNoBeer
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I'm rooting for the asteroid as well.  They way things are going they deserved to be wiped out.  I'm going to watch it till the end. The only good thing about it is the EM Drive.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 09:52:33 pm by kevindavis »
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1286 on: August 05, 2017, 10:46:06 pm »


@InHeavenThereIsNoBeer
@Ghost Bear


I'm rooting for the asteroid as well.  They way things are going they deserved to be wiped out.  I'm going to watch it till the end. The only good thing about it is the EM Drive.

Thanks,guys. I have to admit I am sorry to hear that. Nothing is better than good sci-fi,but it's so rare it's hard to remember there ever was such a thing.
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1287 on: August 05, 2017, 10:57:52 pm »
Thanks,guys. I have to admit I am sorry to hear that. Nothing is better than good sci-fi,but it's so rare it's hard to remember there ever was such a thing.


It sounded like a good show, but it is a stink bomb.
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Offline kevindavis007

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Offline sneakypete

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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1290 on: August 06, 2017, 12:34:24 am »
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1291 on: August 06, 2017, 12:43:27 am »
Using the standard critic four star rating:
  • Carrie (1976) - *** Didn't like it the first time I saw it but it grew on me. Liked the book.
  • Misery (1990) - Never saw it or read the book.
  • Stand by Me (1986) - *** Liked it. Also liked the novella The Body upon which it was based.
  • The Shawshank Redemption (1994) - Never saw it. Liked the novella Rita Hayworth and Shawshank Redemption upon which it was based.
  • The Dead Zone (1983) - ***1/2 Liked it a lot. Liked it better than the book.
  • It (1990) - **1/2 Ho hum. Never read the book.
  • The Shining (1980) - *** Didn't like it the first time I saw it but it grew on me. Liked the book.

Dreamcatcher was based on a king book and was literally one of the worst movies I've ever seen in a theater.

Offline LateForLunch

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1292 on: August 06, 2017, 01:20:11 am »
I haven't read any of those, I will have to check them out.  Though I will say, regarding Ann Rice, I tried the Vampire series, whichever one they made into the movie with Cruise and Pitt that for some reason I cannot remember the name of right now, and I couldn't get past the first chapter.

Tell me, have you read Rose Madder and what did you think of it?  I have pretty much stopped reading King.  I think I read everything of his up through Needful Things, except I have read all of The Dark Tower books, and then just stopped.  Except for Rose Madder which for some reason I find myself wanting to re-read every few years and I never want to re-read books.  But, I find my taste has changed more towards epic fantasy the last 10 years or so.

By the way, I've been so underwhelmed with the thought of The Dark Tower movie that I didn't know it was all condensed into one movie!  Wow.

Note on Ann Rice. She became a devout Christian after her husband died suddenly. She says that she considers the vampire novels to be "disturbed" and a product of her naivete and spiritual bankruptcy.  She will never write another vampire novel. After her husband died, she eventually decided to write about the Middle East and moved there to get the feel for the culture and ancient history. She ended up staying for many years and says that it affected her in a profound way to see the holy sites. She had a sort of revelation which culminated in her returning to her Christian faith, which she had abandoned many long years before in her youth. Out of the research she did in the M.E. came a series of books dramatizing the years of Christ's life before it was documented in the Gospels. I have read all of the Christ the Lord series and I was floored by how great they were. Her seriousness aboutr her faith really comes through in those books. They are beautiful IMO. Any serious-minded Christian will likely find those books to be very inspiring.

The author Gene Wolfe is now considered a Grand Master writer. His first hugely popular work (all Hugo/Nebula winners) is the Severian Series (Severian the Torturer is the central character) aka (the Urth of) the New Sun collection. Five novels each are stand alone, so one may read any of them before the other and enjoy them. I started with the second but recommend for maximum enjoyment starting from #1. In order, they are (1) The Shadow of the Torturer, (2) The Sword of the Lictor, (3) The Claw of the Concilliator, (4)The Citidel of the Autarch and finally (5) The Urth of the New Sun.  The names of the books are sort of cheesy (I smell the blood of a publishing company marketing director) but the books themselves are serious writing on par with Tolkien, IMO. If you like Tolkien, Melville with a little Milton thrown in you might like Wolfe.

Wolfe likely has an eidetic memory, which enables him to create an entirely consistent universe in which stories takes place, much the way Tolkien created Middle Earth.

« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 01:31:34 am by LateForLunch »
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Offline LateForLunch

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1293 on: August 06, 2017, 01:38:43 am »
Using the standard critic four star rating:
  • Carrie (1976) - *** Didn't like it the first time I saw it but it grew on me. Liked the book.
  • Misery (1990) - Never saw it or read the book.
  • Stand by Me (1986) - *** Liked it. Also liked the novella The Body upon which it was based.
  • The Shawshank Redemption (1994) - Never saw it. Liked the novella Rita Hayworth and Shawshank Redemption upon which it was based.
  • The Dead Zone (1983) - ***1/2 Liked it a lot. Liked it better than the book.
  • It (1990) - **1/2 Ho hum. Never read the book.
  • The Shining (1980) - *** Didn't like it the first time I saw it but it grew on me. Liked the book.

By all means read IT. The movie does not do it justice by a long shot. That is a King Hell book, rich with sub-plots activity that is frankly some of the best literature I have ever read of any genre. King NAILED that book. The Stand was my favorite King book until I read "IT". 'Read The Shining after seeing the movie and that is also a class "A" product. The Shining movie of course has the distinct advantage of being one of Jack Nicholson's best movies of all time in addition to having one of the greatest directors of all time, so the book has some fairly stiff competition as an artistic achievement - yet I still think the book The Shining is slightly better than the movie(s) because of the character development. Jack Torrence is a much more sympathetic character in the book than the movie. The horror of what happens to Jack Torrence in terms of a good man losing his mind to alcohol and brutally overpowering Satanic forces, changing him into a monster, is not seen much in the movie(s).

King wrote a sequel to The Shining after many long years called Dr. Sleep. I started reading it but my interest faded. Kings makes the central character (Danny) a grown up involved in AA a sub-plot. See, he put his own life into the story line which is risky for a writer. It wasn't bad but trying to top the Shining  (even for King) is an impossible task.  It would be sort of like Tolkien trying to top Lord of the Rings, or Melville doing a better story than Moby Dick.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 01:49:16 am by LateForLunch »
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Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1294 on: August 06, 2017, 02:15:00 am »
When I read King's "Misery" I knew then that they could never really do it justice as a film because so much was going on in the minds of the characters. In the end it was a pretty good movie due to the acting of Bates and Caan despite wandering pretty far afield from the book.

Unfortunately The Dark Tower is doomed. Its just too complex to throw into one movie. Idris Elba is a fine actor but Roland was clearly written as a tall pale half starved white man. Detta Walker often calls him Tall Pale and ugly in The drawing of the 3 and after. Personally I was thinking more along the lines of a Vigo Mortinson or even Gary Oldman. Matthew McConaughey has no business in the movie at all.

The Wizard and Glass book was almost all flashback to Roland's teen years when he had effectively exiled by Roland as he told the story they were walking through the world of The Stand.


Offline bigheadfred

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1295 on: August 06, 2017, 03:06:55 am »
This doesn't really surprise me.  There are some novels that just don't lend themselves to being good movies.  I think our imaginations use the words to create an image that could never be recreated with much success on the big screen.  I'm curious to see how "It" does in the theater.  I think that comes out in September.  I didn't care for the first one, which I thought was boring, compared to actually reading the novel which scared the hell out of me.

The Shining--the book--gave me the willies. Shawshank is one of my favorite movies. I have a bunch of his books, but I don't think I've ever reread one.

I was perusing Amazon movies and The Dead Zone caught my eye. I put it on my watchlist. @Machiavelli
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1296 on: August 06, 2017, 10:51:55 pm »
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #1297 on: August 06, 2017, 11:11:15 pm »

Quote
Out of the research she did in the M.E. came a series of books dramatizing the years of Christ's life before it was documented in the Gospels. I have read all of the Christ the Lord series and I was floored by how great they were. Her seriousness aboutr her faith really comes through in those books. They are beautiful IMO. Any serious-minded Christian will likely find those books to be very inspiring.

Why don't you find a place to start a "Christian Movie and Book Review" Thread,and post it there? Once posted,ping myst and ask her to make it a sub-folder so it doesn't get lost in the clutter,and other people can find it and post their own reviews there?


Quote
The author Gene Wolfe is now considered a Grand Master writer. His first hugely popular work (all Hugo/Nebula winners) is the Severian Series (Severian the Torturer is the central character) aka (the Urth of) the New Sun collection. Five novels each are stand alone, so one may read any of them before the other and enjoy them. I started with the second but recommend for maximum enjoyment starting from #1. In order, they are (1) The Shadow of the Torturer, (2) The Sword of the Lictor, (3) The Claw of the Concilliator, (4)The Citidel of the Autarch and finally (5) The Urth of the New Sun.  The names of the books are sort of cheesy (I smell the blood of a publishing company marketing director) but the books themselves are serious writing on par with Tolkien, IMO. If you like Tolkien, Melville with a little Milton thrown in you might like Wolfe.

@LateForLunch   @mystery-ak
Ok,now I am thinking a sub-folder just named "Book and Movie Reviews",and "Christian Book and Movie Reviews" can be a sub-folder,along with Science Fiction,History,War,Politics,and other popular subjects?

What say you,myst?




« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 11:14:34 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline kevindavis007

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Offline kevindavis007

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