Author Topic: Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost  (Read 1240 times)

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Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost
« on: February 14, 2016, 02:26:44 pm »
http://www.nationalreview.com/node/431289/print

 Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost
By David French — February 14, 2016

I’m done. Until the fundamental dynamic of the GOP primary race changes, I’m done with parsing debate winners and losers. So long as Donald Trump dominates an overly-large field of ambitious, fratricidal competitors, we will continue to see absurdities like the following:

1. Trump — the Republican front-runner, no less — borrowing language from MoveOn.org and Daily Kos to advance the absurd “Bush lied, people died” Iraq War narrative, attacking his fellow Republicans with far more fury than even Hillary Clinton can muster.

2. Trump repeatedly and loudly holding George Bush responsible for 9/11 and the fall of the World Trade Center.

3. An extended GOP defense of Obamacare’s Medicaid expansion, courtesy of Ohio’s extraordinarily sanctimonious John Kasich. Using talking points that Democrats would envy, he cloaked his embrace of an inferior, third-class government insurance program in the language of compassion and fiscal responsibility. In an ordinary race, Kasich would be long gone — shoved aside by genuine conservatives and an afterthought even in moderate New Hampshire.

4. Trump (yes, him again) actually extolling the virtues of Planned Parenthood on a GOP debate stage. As a businessman who built a “world-class company,” surely he understands that injecting hundreds of millions of dollars into a business helps the entire enterprise stay afloat. That’s what taxpayer subsidies for Planned Parenthood do for the nation’s largest abortion provider, even if taxpayer dollars don’t “directly” subsidize abortion.

5. An actual presidential candidate acting like an angry drunk — interrupting candidates, calling them names, and creating a social dynamic where the other GOP candidates either ignore him — and look weak — or engage him and risk lowering themselves to his shouting and name-calling level.

If there is any silver lining in this very dark cloud, at least Jeb Bush and Ted Cruz showed — in select circumstances — that they could confront Trump at his screaming, ranting worst and prevail. While Marco Rubio improved on his last debate performance, I’m still waiting on the day when he steps up and takes on the front-runner. As for Kasich and Carson, I frankly wondered why they were there. Do either of them think they have the slightest chance of being the GOP nominee?

On a day when an American lost a great patriot — a Supreme Court justice who defended the Constitution and upheld its vital principles until the very day that he died — it was particularly sad to see the hijacking of constitutional conservatism in a race that is quickly degenerating into a dangerous farce at the very time when the nation so desperately needs principled, courageous leadership. Dear candidates, if you can’t win, step aside. If you can win, step up. Otherwise, we are lost.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2016, 02:39:58 pm »
I was absolutely wrong yesterday when I said Trump will start dialing back.

Last night, he went full bore 9/11 Truther, gave a shout out to Cecile Richards, and embraced Cindy Sheehan with a big ole virtual hug.

This man is dangerous, is certainly not conservative, and lapses into outrageous wackoism on a regular basis.

Can't vote for this man, ever.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 02:43:47 pm by sinkspur »
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2016, 02:42:55 pm »
Quote
Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost

And the inside the beltway bastards are giddy with joy!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2016, 02:52:49 pm »
In the FWIW category, DU is heaping praises on Trump for calling out W.  I can't imagine my state, South Carolina, voting for him but I suspect they will.  After his behavior last night it doesn't appear anyone on this forum has changed their minds about him, pro or con, so he'll probably continue to dominate.  At this stage, the supporters who have stuck with him are pretty well invested.  From what I've noticed, supporters of the more mainstream candidates seem to be moving back and forth as the debates take place.  Trump and Cruz supporters really don't have anywhere else to go.  Those two are quite unique in their styles to say the least.  :pondering:
It's the Supreme Court nominations!

Offline Lando Lincoln

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Re: Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2016, 02:53:11 pm »
Last night was truly the Theater of the Absurd.  In my view, no one can credibly defend otherwise.

And, the Republicans started with such strong field.  I thought. 

I can't wait to win all those fabulous gifts and prizes.

Regardless of where you reside on the right-of-center political continuum, you lost last night.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 03:02:14 pm by Lando Lincoln »
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Offline EdinVA

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Re: Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2016, 02:57:34 pm »
In the FWIW category, DU is heaping praises on Trump for calling out W.  I can't imagine my state, South Carolina, voting for him but I suspect they will.  After his behavior last night it doesn't appear anyone on this forum has changed their minds about him, pro or con, so he'll probably continue to dominate.  At this stage, the supporters who have stuck with him are pretty well invested.  From what I've noticed, supporters of the more mainstream candidates seem to be moving back and forth as the debates take place.  Trump and Cruz supporters really don't have anywhere else to go.  Those two are quite unique in their styles to say the least.  :pondering:

Gotta admit it was a rough nite for me... :)
Both of my guys shot themselves in the foot...
Will waite a few days and see if anything "healing" takes place before I jump of the cliff...

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2016, 04:06:38 pm »
Gotta admit it was a rough nite for me... :)
Both of my guys shot themselves in the foot...
Will waite a few days and see if anything "healing" takes place before I jump of the cliff...

Yeah, last night bolstered the Dems a lot more than it did the Republicans.  Of course the left is still dancing over the demise of the great man.  **nononono*
It's the Supreme Court nominations!

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Re: Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2016, 06:02:39 pm »
What a train wreck Donald and that debate was.  Reminds me of a line in the Movie 'Tropic Thunder' 

"Everybody (but Donald) knows you never ever go full retard."   Trump crossed it several times.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 06:03:22 pm by Wingnut »

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2016, 06:48:48 pm »
Second Choice? I barely have a First Choice.

I will never vote for Trump under any circumstances,but he is saying things that needed to be said. SOMEBODY has to say them and not get struck with lightening in order to open the door to discussion so other people can say them,too.

Granted,I think Trump is out there "throwing verbal bombs" as a paid agent of the DNC to hurt the Republican "brand" in the eyes of the uncommitted voters and ruin any chance the alleged Republicans have of winning this cycle,but I'm to the point where I don't care. Maybe that is the sort of thing that needs to be done more often in public to slap the alleged Republicans back into place and away from their now customary place as leeches on the ass end of the Dim Party.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2016, 07:15:36 pm »
Somebody has to say what?

Conspiracy bullshit?  That makes him look crazy.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline flowers

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Re: Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2016, 07:44:31 pm »
It was a horrible night last night. then add Scalias death...


Offline flowers

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Re: Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2016, 07:56:33 pm »
and embraced Cindy Sheehan with a big ole virtual hug.
she was in audience?  he did that last night at the debate?


Offline Lando Lincoln

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Re: Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2016, 08:16:39 pm »
she was in audience?  he did that last night at the debate?

No.  It was a figurative remark by sink based on the frontrunner's remarks about Planned Parenthood. 
There are some among us who live in rooms of experience we can never enter.
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Offline flowers

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Re: Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2016, 08:18:20 pm »
No.  It was a figurative remark by sink based on the frontrunner's remarks about Planned Parenthood.
thank you Lando!


Offline sinkspur

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Re: Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2016, 08:21:20 pm »
No.  It was a figurative remark by sink based on the frontrunner's remarks about Planned Parenthood.

Actually, it was a figurative remark based on Trump's statements agreeing with Code Pink's argument that Bush knew there were no WMDs.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2016, 08:21:26 pm »
Somebody has to say what?

Conspiracy bullshit?  That makes him look crazy.

Somebody needs to say some of the things he is saying,like the Gulf War was based on lies,we need to bar Muslims from coming to America,we need to stop giving instant citizenship to the babies of illegal aliens,we need to build walls around our borders,etc,etc,etc.

He may not be the ideal person to say all these things given his own personal and business history,but they need to be said all the same.

And if it makes him look crazy,that's called "truth in advertising",and feel free to call ME crazy too,and I despise and don't trust Trump.
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2016, 08:25:42 pm »
There were some poignant moments in last night's debate.

I found it touching to have all the candidates pay homage to Antonin Scalia with a moment of silence.

To see all the bitter rivals united in thought out of respect for the Conservative icon, heads bowed, eyes closed...



Well...

Almost all of them.
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Offline Lando Lincoln

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Re: Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2016, 08:29:31 pm »
Actually, it was a figurative remark based on Trump's statements agreeing with Code Pink's argument that Bush knew there were no WMDs.

Yes (slapping forehead). 

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Offline andy58-in-nh

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Re: Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2016, 08:32:14 pm »
There were some poignant moments in last night's debate.

I found it touching to have all the candidates pay homage to Antonin Scalia with a moment of silence.

To see all the bitter rivals united in thought out of respect for the Conservative icon, heads bowed, eyes closed...

Well...

Almost all of them.

Now, give the man some credit. He managed to refrain from insulting anyone for an entire 10 seconds.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2016, 08:36:16 pm »
There were some poignant moments in last night's debate.

I found it touching to have all the candidates pay homage to Antonin Scalia with a moment of silence.

To see all the bitter rivals united in thought out of respect for the Conservative icon, heads bowed, eyes closed...



Well...

Almost all of them.

Give Trump a break. He probably doesn't know who Scalia was. After all,they moved in different social circles.
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Offline flowers

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Re: Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2016, 09:17:11 pm »
Actually, it was a figurative remark based on Trump's statements agreeing with Code Pink's argument that Bush knew there were no WMDs.
OK i get it now. Thanks sink.


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Re: Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2016, 09:54:42 pm »
I was absolutely wrong yesterday when I said Trump will start dialing back.

Last night, he went full bore 9/11 Truther, gave a shout out to Cecile Richards, and embraced Cindy Sheehan with a big ole virtual hug.

This man is dangerous, is certainly not conservative, and lapses into outrageous wackoism on a regular basis.

Can't vote for this man, ever.

His views are what 35% of the GOP primary voters find closest to their own.  I think that's a long-term problem for the GOP in general.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2016, 10:09:16 pm »
His views are what 35% of the GOP primary voters find closest to their own.  I think that's a long-term problem for the GOP in general.

His views?  Trump, as Jimmy Carter said, is "malleable."  His views are whatever he says they are at the moment he opens his mouth.

35% of the GOP suffers from cult worship. They don't care about his views; they just care about following a narcissistic nativist who they think is going to make their lives all better.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Nobody Won the South Carolina Debate -- Conservatism Lost
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2016, 10:53:48 pm »
His views are what 35% of the GOP primary voters find closest to their own.  I think that's a long-term problem for the GOP in general.

I wouldn't go that far. Remember,he is a salesman and self-promoter. That is literally all he has ever been,

What he is doing is "selling" himself to conservatives by simply telling them what they want to hear. The fact that he is basically an idiot with no judgement at all that goes WAAAAY over the line is irrelevant. A lot of conservatives are just so happy to hear common sense conservative positions shouted from a "political pulpit" by a Presidential candidate makes them as giddy as schoolgirls at a Justin Beiber concert. So giddy they are willing to tell themselves "He doesn't really mean some of that stuff" without even thinking "If he doesn't mean some of it,what assurances do we have that he means any of it?".

IMO,Trump flat doesn't care what he says because all he's really doing is pumping up his "trademark",the Trump name. I still think he will drop out when it's too late for any other Republican candidate to mount an effective campaign,and sign a lot of sweetheart deals with the DNC and prominent Dim backers. He will then spend the rest of  his life bragging about how "I COULD have been the President of the USA,but decided the job was beneath me,so I dropped out".

Just being considered to have been a serious Presidential candidate will give him enormous name recognition and clout in foreign countries where the business people and even a lot of the political classes don't really understand America and American politics,and it's going to be worth billions to him.

Ross Perot,Part 2. The prime differences is Perot was doing it because he hates the Bush Crime Family,and the billions he made from the sale of EDS stock after Clinton gave him the contract to digitize SS records was just a bonus.

Trump is doing it for the money,but money is so closely tied to his ego that his ego is the prime factor. It's all about "Me,me,ME,DAMMIT!"
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 10:56:13 pm by sneakypete »
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!