Author Topic: Eric Garner Choked, and Now Berned  (Read 7291 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline GourmetDan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,277
Re: Eric Garner Choked, and Now Berned
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2016, 07:00:07 pm »
It's a giant conspiracy of legislatures to put all the people in jail?

Well... there certainly are a lot of people involved... and they certainly conspire while doing it... and more laws certainly send more people to jail... and our jails are bursting as it is...

Why do you think they do it?


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: Eric Garner Choked, and Now Berned
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2016, 07:01:01 pm »
I love this!  I wish I could get my niece, who is enamored with socialism, to read it. She probably wouldn't understand it though.  She just doesn't "get" capitalism, her indoctrination is complete.


I was stationed in West Germany for my US Army service, and lived with my wife and small child on the civilian German economy. I spoke fairly good German, meaning we got further into the local cultural experience, etc.

Once home I resumed my business degree, and entered graduate school. I wrote a economics class thesis, comparing the post WWII economies of West and East Germany.

The stark difference in results, both in terms of economic prosperity, but also political and personal freedoms is quite well documented. When the wall came don, people wanted to go from east to west, not the reverse.

A similar comparison is available in the two Koreas.

Anyway if your daughter were directed to study such empirical evidence, she might discover it on her own. You know young people object to being "told" things, but are capable of discovering it for themselves.

On the personal-political freedom side of things, an excellent film was made titled "The Lives of Others." It is English subtitled, but in German. Won Oscar for best foreign film.

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline MACVSOG68

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,792
  • Gender: Male
Re: Eric Garner Choked, and Now Berned
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2016, 07:30:08 pm »
Just to be clear, Massad did a good job on the piece and I am grateful that he posted it.
It is just, accusing the police of murder just sets my hair on fire... :)

I agree with you.  Vic did a good job.  I can enjoy a well written piece while still disagreeing with its conclusions. 
It's the Supreme Court nominations!

Offline MACVSOG68

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,792
  • Gender: Male
Re: Eric Garner Choked, and Now Berned
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2016, 07:46:57 pm »
Well... there certainly are a lot of people involved... and they certainly conspire while doing it... and more laws certainly send more people to jail... and our jails are bursting as it is...

Why do you think they do it?

I suggest governmental organizations create more and more laws for a number of reasons, backed by a growing sense of paternalism.  Economic, health and safety issues beget laws continually.  The cigarette tax referred to here probably filled the health and economic issues New York felt a need to address.  It's hard to hold a governing body back. Making laws is a natural product of the legislatures, which are lawmaking bodies.  And only the voting public can hold that growth back in a civilized society.  Unfortunately, most often the voting public is quite splintered over these laws.  The candidates tell us that American want this, or Americans want that.  If only these issues were that simple.   :pondering:

It's the Supreme Court nominations!

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: Eric Garner Choked, and Now Berned
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2016, 07:52:55 pm »
I suggest governmental organizations create more and more laws for a number of reasons, backed by a growing sense of paternalism.  Economic, health and safety issues beget laws continually.  The cigarette tax referred to here probably filled the health and economic issues New York felt a need to address.  It's hard to hold a governing body back. Making laws is a natural product of the legislatures, which are lawmaking bodies.  And only the voting public can hold that growth back in a civilized society.  Unfortunately, most often the voting public is quite splintered over these laws.  The candidates tell us that American want this, or Americans want that.  If only these issues were that simple.   :pondering:
I understand you. But consider: NYC citizens want less smoking and cigarettes, hence restrictions, higher taxes etc.

But at the same time, NYC citizens do NOT want police so highly committed to enforcing cigarette regulations, that they use physical force sufficient to kill other citizens.

I think this is evidence of Trump's claim: We are being governed and led by incompetents; by very stupid people.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline GourmetDan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,277
Re: Eric Garner Choked, and Now Berned
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2016, 07:53:12 pm »
I suggest governmental organizations create more and more laws for a number of reasons, backed by a growing sense of paternalism.  Economic, health and safety issues beget laws continually.  The cigarette tax referred to here probably filled the health and economic issues New York felt a need to address.  It's hard to hold a governing body back. Making laws is a natural product of the legislatures, which are lawmaking bodies.  And only the voting public can hold that growth back in a civilized society.  Unfortunately, most often the voting public is quite splintered over these laws.  The candidates tell us that American want this, or Americans want that.  If only these issues were that simple.   :pondering:

So do you require that all participants knowingly and deliberately engage in conspiratorial behavior to benefit themselves at the expense of others before it is a conspiracy? 

Maybe it's the definition of conspiracy that we're having problems with...

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline MACVSOG68

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,792
  • Gender: Male
Re: Eric Garner Choked, and Now Berned
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2016, 09:21:33 pm »
So do you require that all participants knowingly and deliberately engage in conspiratorial behavior to benefit themselves at the expense of others before it is a conspiracy? 

Maybe it's the definition of conspiracy that we're having problems with...

Well I do require that all participants knowingly and deliberately engage in conspiratorial behavior for some reason common to all.  As an example, back to the cigarette tax.  Most states have a tax of one type or another on cigarettes.  Some states do it to raise revenues (Missouri $0.17); others to influence behavior (New York $4.35).  I don't think either state conspires with the other on that issue.  All states have laws against rape and murder, but I don't think those laws came about through a conspiracy.  But I'm just a trusting gent.   :whistle:
It's the Supreme Court nominations!

Offline GourmetDan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,277
Re: Eric Garner Choked, and Now Berned
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2016, 09:33:17 pm »
All states have laws against rape and murder, but I don't think those laws came about through a conspiracy.  But I'm just a trusting gent.   :whistle:

Interesting that you went to that extreme to support your position...

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline MACVSOG68

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,792
  • Gender: Male
Re: Eric Garner Choked, and Now Berned
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2016, 09:54:50 pm »
Interesting that you went to that extreme to support your position...

I didn't.  I started with the cigarette tax.  I wasn't the one who called lawmaking across the various legislatures a conspiracy.
It's the Supreme Court nominations!

Offline GourmetDan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,277
Re: Eric Garner Choked, and Now Berned
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2016, 10:17:10 pm »
I didn't.  I started with the cigarette tax.  I wasn't the one who called lawmaking across the various legislatures a conspiracy.

You didn't?  Hmmm...

I guess that makes you the winner...


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline MACVSOG68

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,792
  • Gender: Male
Re: Eric Garner Choked, and Now Berned
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2016, 10:19:10 pm »
You didn't?  Hmmm...

I guess that makes you the winner...

 :laugh:
It's the Supreme Court nominations!

Offline massadvj

  • Editorial Advisor
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,347
  • Gender: Male
Re: Eric Garner Choked, and Now Berned
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2016, 02:06:31 am »
It'd nice to see that this thread prompted such a robust discussion.  I think we can all agree that the rule of law is important, but that generally we'd prefer to live under a small government with just a few sensible laws that are vigorously enforced, as opposed to the tangled web of laws with the arbitrary enforcement we have in modern day USA. 

Offline flowers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,798
Re: Eric Garner Choked, and Now Berned
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2016, 02:11:34 am »
It'd nice to see that this thread prompted such a robust discussion.  I think we can all agree that the rule of law is important, but that generally we'd prefer to live under a small government with just a few sensible laws that are vigorously enforced, as opposed to the tangled web of laws with the arbitrary enforcement we have in modern day USA.
:king: 


Offline MACVSOG68

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,792
  • Gender: Male
Re: Eric Garner Choked, and Now Berned
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2016, 02:15:35 am »
It'd nice to see that this thread prompted such a robust discussion.  I think we can all agree that the rule of law is important, but that generally we'd prefer to live under a small government with just a few sensible laws that are vigorously enforced, as opposed to the tangled web of laws with the arbitrary enforcement we have in modern day USA.

Can't argue with that.   :beer:
It's the Supreme Court nominations!