Quinnipiac: Rubio Strongest GOP Candidate, Would Defeat Hillary

[Luis Gonzalez]

He wields a "silver tongue " in the manner of Richard Millhouse Nixon and William Jefferson Clinton.

He also dubs himself a consistent conservative in spite of his long list of well-timed flip flops and his campaign of running as an outsider and an enemy of the dreaded "GOPe" while voting with the same GOPe 82% of the time he voted.

[LaRueLaDue]

I agree that is an unpopular stance requiring courage

Cruz, Rubio, and Trump have all intensified their opposition to illegal immigration, and they are all full of crap...but that is what they have to do to fool Republican voters.
There will never be a solution to illegal immigration as long as the guy fixing your car, making your cheeseburger, vacuuming your office, and paying for your SS, unemployment, and disability are all illegals or sons of illegals.

I almost wish the xenophobes who hate illegals got their wish, because they would likely be the first "non-productive" Americans euthanized.

Oh no.  Was that outloud?

Don't be so quick to characterize a group. And yes, that was outloud. Thanks for tipping your hand to us.

Perhaps people who don't like illegal aliiens simply don't like scofflaws and those who blatantly ignore our laws. Perhaps they have experience that you don't have with the criminal gangs that are intimately associated with illegal aliens. Perhaps it has nothing to do with race or nationality, but everything to do with legality, respect for our laws, respect for our country. Have you given any of that a thought?

[MACVSOG68]

Don't be so quick to characterize a group. And yes, that was outloud. Thanks for tipping your hand to us.

Perhaps people who don't like illegal aliiens simply don't like scofflaws and those who blatantly ignore our laws. Perhaps they have experience that you don't have with the criminal gangs that are intimately associated with illegal aliens. Perhaps it has nothing to do with race or nationality, but everything to do with legality, respect for our laws, respect for our country. Have you given any of that a thought?

No, I'm afraid it's not that simple an issue.  Since several pieces of legislation over the past ten years addressed the illegality by fines, penalties, requirements to work, English proficiency, no government assistance, the concerns about respect for our laws is a tad overblown.  95% of all criminal cases filed in the US result in plea bargains, which essentially the legalization process is.  As for criminal gangs, you're preaching to the choir.  Those of us who want to see comprehensive immigration reform are disgusted with these gangs, as well as drug smuggling and human trafficking from the south of this Country.  In fact what we want is better border security, more enforcement both at the borders as well as internally to go after these criminals.  What we also recognize, as does Rubio, is the fact that there are a lot of these illegals who have nothing to do with criminal activity, are raising families, contributing to their communities and have been here for many years.  If we insist on going after those, and it has nothing to do with gangs or such criminal activities, and these people are refused any kind of plea bargaining, then yes, it may well have to do with other factors.

[flowers]

I've been watching you.

Hiya....good to see you around!

[Bigun]

No, I'm afraid it's not that simple an issue.  Since several pieces of legislation over the past ten years addressed the illegality by fines, penalties, requirements to work, English proficiency, no government assistance, the concerns about respect for our laws is a tad overblown.  95% of all criminal cases filed in the US result in plea bargains, which essentially the legalization process is.  As for criminal gangs, you're preaching to the choir.  Those of us who want to see comprehensive immigration reform are disgusted with these gangs, as well as drug smuggling and human trafficking from the south of this Country.  In fact what we want is better border security, more enforcement both at the borders as well as internally to go after these criminals.  What we also recognize, as does Rubio, is the fact that there are a lot of these illegals who have nothing to do with criminal activity, are raising families, contributing to their communities and have been here for many years.  If we insist on going after those, and it has nothing to do with gangs or such criminal activities, and these people are refused any kind of plea bargaining, then yes, it may well have to do with other factors.

Actually it really is quite simple. The big money Chamber of Commerce donors want very much to keep their cheap and compliant labor and  will spare no expense to do so.

[Luis Gonzalez]

No, I'm afraid it's not that simple an issue.  Since several pieces of legislation over the past ten years addressed the illegality by fines, penalties, requirements to work, English proficiency, no government assistance, the concerns about respect for our laws is a tad overblown.  95% of all criminal cases filed in the US result in plea bargains, which essentially the legalization process is.  As for criminal gangs, you're preaching to the choir.  Those of us who want to see comprehensive immigration reform are disgusted with these gangs, as well as drug smuggling and human trafficking from the south of this Country.  In fact what we want is better border security, more enforcement both at the borders as well as internally to go after these criminals.  What we also recognize, as does Rubio, is the fact that there are a lot of these illegals who have nothing to do with criminal activity, are raising families, contributing to their communities and have been here for many years.  If we insist on going after those, and it has nothing to do with gangs or such criminal activities, and these people are refused any kind of plea bargaining, then yes, it may well have to do with other factors.

Then there's the unequal application of the laws.

Bill Cosby almost got away with drugging a woman and raping her, but there's no statute of limitations applicable to being in the country illegally, and due process does not apply to deportations.

[MACVSOG68]

Love your post and the way you frame the issue. I agree wholeheartedly with you. I hope you all have a live thread for the debate.   It's hard for me to post from my cell phone here in Colombia but I love reading the analysis.

Thank you sir.   

[MACVSOG68]

Actually it really is quite simple. The big money Chamber of Commerce donors want very much to keep their cheap and compliant labor and  will spare no expense to do so.

That's true, but not just the CofC. In New Orleans, the minority community that lived there refused to participate in the rebuilding of the area even for $16 to $20 an hour and more.  The illegals came in and did the job for $10 to $13 an hour.  I know it's racist, but I'll take a Mexican worker any time over other ethnic groups.  I know many will disagree with me, but the truth is there are jobs Americans won't do or won't do well. 

[MACVSOG68]

Then there's the unequal application of the laws.

Bill Cosby almost got away with drugging a woman and raping her, but there's no statute of limitations applicable to being in the country illegally, and due process does not apply to deportations.

A point I've never considered, but you're right.  I guess the reason that would be given is that being in the Country illegally continues as opposed to single instances of criminal activity? 

[Bigun]

That's true, but not just the CofC. In New Orleans, the minority community that lived there refused to participate in the rebuilding of the area even for $16 to $20 an hour and more.  The illegals came in and did the job for $10 to $13 an hour.  I know it's racist, but I'll take a Mexican worker any time over other ethnic groups.  I know many will disagree with me, but the truth is there are jobs Americans won't do or won't do well.

The locals refused to work because "If I do dat dae will cut off my check!"

[HonestJohn]

That's true, but not just the CofC. In New Orleans, the minority community that lived there refused to participate in the rebuilding of the area even for $16 to $20 an hour and more.  The illegals came in and did the job for $10 to $13 an hour.  I know it's racist, but I'll take a Mexican worker any time over other ethnic groups.  I know many will disagree with me, but the truth is there are jobs Americans won't do or won't do well.

This is true, but it short-circuits the free market.

If no one was taking the jobs at $16-20/hour... then the price offered for the service desired was too low in the market.  Had there been no intervention, those seeking the service would have had to raise their offers until they were able to obtain the service.

It's much like going to a car dealership and saying that you'll buy a new Corvette for $25,000.  No one will sell one to you.  That is, until you raise your offer to a price point the seller is willing to take.

Now, a Chinese company (via Alibaba) might take your offer and sell you a 'Corvette' at that price.

But complaining that no American business will sell you a Corvette is not true.  Just as much as it isn't true that Americans just won't do certain jobs.  What matters is the price offered, which is too low for the good or service requested.

[MACVSOG68]

The locals refused to work because "If I do dat dae will cut off my check!"

Yeah, that's one way of putting it.   

[Luis Gonzalez]

A point I've never considered, but you're right.  I guess the reason that would be given is that being in the Country illegally continues as opposed to single instances of criminal activity?

Be that as it were, an individual running a prostitution ring, a crime family, or a multi-national Ponzi scheme is treated according to the Constitutional requirements imposed on the government by several Amendments, yet illegals facing deportation have neither a right to appointed counsel nor a right to a speedy trial. They have l, nor are they given, the opportunity to appeal the deportation.

[Luis Gonzalez]

This is true, but it short-circuits the free market.

If no one was taking the jobs at $16-20/hour... then the price offered for the service desired was too low in the market.  Had there been no intervention, those seeking the service would have had to raise their offers until they were able to obtain the service.

It's much like going to a car dealership and saying that you'll buy a new Corvette for $25,000.  No one will sell one to you.  That is, until you raise your offer to a price point the seller is willing to take.

Now, a Chinese company (via Alibaba) might take your offer and sell you a 'Corvette' at that price.

But complaining that no American business will sell you a Corvette is not true.  Just as much as it isn't true that Americans just won't do certain jobs.  What matters is the price offered, which is too low for the good or service requested.

The free market is short circuited by the government giving workers the option to not work and live off entitlements.

So that employer is not necessarily competing against the free market, but against his own monies, his tax dollars, being used to artificially inflate wages and cut deeper into his business profits.

[MACVSOG68]

This is true, but it short-circuits the free market.

If no one was taking the jobs at $16-20/hour... then the price offered for the service desired was too low in the market.  Had there been no intervention, those seeking the service would have had to raise their offers until they were able to obtain the service.

It's much like going to a car dealership and saying that you'll buy a new Corvette for $25,000.  No one will sell one to you.  That is, until you raise your offer to a price point the seller is willing to take.

Now, a Chinese company (via Alibaba) might take your offer and sell you a 'Corvette' at that price.

But complaining that no American business will sell you a Corvette is not true.  Just as much as it isn't true that Americans just won't do certain jobs.  What matters is the price offered, which is too low for the good or service requested.

Part of the problem is that it wasn't a totally free market because the government stepped in two ways, first by pouring huge sums of money into the area, money that had nothing to do with market forces, and two by creating a dependency group out of those who might well have contributed.  Instead they took the credit cards, mobile homes and many moved to Houston to take even more handouts.  The "American" or "legal" workers saw all that money and demanded their fair share.  Illegals used the only leverage they had...bidding lower prices for their labor.

In a larger way the issue of a wage equilibrium isn't just with illegals.  Governments in many states as well as labor unions are doing everything they can to disrupt a "market" wage.  Minimum wages do not reflect the market.  Laws that prohibit hiring outside of union rules do not reflect the market.  If we believe that governments should interfere in certain labor markets then we do not support the market setting the price for labor.

[MACVSOG68]

The free market is short circuited by the government giving workers the option to not work and live off entitlements.

So that employer is not necessarily competing against the free market, but against his own monies, his tax dollars, being used to artificially inflate wages and cut deeper into his business profits.

You said it much more succinctly than I did.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Don't be so quick to characterize a group. And yes, that was outloud. Thanks for tipping your hand to us.

Welcome LaRueLaDue, and oh no my cover is blown.     I thought it might be outloud.  rats!

Perhaps people who don't like illegal aliiens simply don't like scofflaws and those who blatantly ignore our laws. Perhaps they have experience that you don't have with the criminal gangs that are intimately associated with illegal aliens. Perhaps it has nothing to do with race or nationality, but everything to do with legality, respect for our laws, respect for our country. Have you given any of that a thought?

Why no.  You are the first to mention these things to me.  Let us see. 

1 "Legality."  I does seem like illegal immigrants do conflict with the whole "legality" thing, however Reagan amnestied millions of illegals and they then were legal.  Seems like an easy fix to this problem.

2 "Respect for our laws." again another tricky problem.  Existing in the US as an illegal immigrant does conflict with the whole "respect for our laws" thing, and quite honestly I don't feel comfortable solving this problem as I have been known to speed in excess of posted federal highway speed limits, jaywalk, cheat on my taxes, fish without a license, and commit indecent and unlawful acts with a minor...however in my defense that Golden Labrador Retriever said she was 18.  It is currently legal to murder a child in the womb.  It happens almost a million times a year.  I have no respect for that law.  I suspect I would have no respect for the legalized slavery the US sanctioned for it's first 100 years.  When the law is wrong I can't respect it.  Our outdated immigration laws are wrong.  They should be revised.

My morality comes to me through Christ, and I believe it exceeds the written laws of men.

3 "Respect for our country." - we are talking about the country that elected Obama twice right?  The same one the re-elected the rapist in 1996?  I got nothin'

Still my post was quite specific about the knuckle dragging cross-burning troglodytes I was talking about, "the illegal hating xenophobe(which is a fancy way of saying racist)."  Some one who opposes illegal immigration on the issue of fairness to legal immigrants would not fall under that category.  The issue of gangs is an irrelevancy.  There are plenty of homegrown gangs.  Illegal gang activity is illegal gang activity.  My post seems to have spoken to you, however.  Perhaps I should thank you.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

My apologies for turning this into an immigration thread folks, but really enjoyed reading some of the thoughtful posts.  I meant only to point out that neither Trump, Cruz, or Rubio has been consistent on the issue, but booze made me get angry at racists.

I hate racists.
One night I beat up 5 skin heads by myself in a drunken rage.
I felt really bad when I found out they were chemo patients at the local cancer center.

[Scottftlc]

My apologies for turning this into an immigration thread folks, but really enjoyed reading some of the thoughtful posts.  I meant only to point out that neither Trump, Cruz, or Rubio has been consistent on the issue, but booze made me get angry at racists.

I hate racists.
One night I beat up 5 skin heads by myself in a drunken rage.
I felt really bad when I found out they where chemo patients at the local cancer center.

Damn dude, there's a job for you in Germany or Sweden.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Damn dude, there's a job for you in Germany or Sweden.

How much does it pay in US dollars please? and do I have to wear a uniform?

[Scottftlc]

How much does it pay in US dollars please? and do I have to wear a uniform?

Just a black skullcap, and how can you put a dollar figure on saving the western world?

[Luis Gonzalez]

My apologies for turning this into an immigration thread folks, but really enjoyed reading some of the thoughtful posts.  I meant only to point out that neither Trump, Cruz, or Rubio has been consistent on the issue, but booze made me get angry at racists.

I hate racists.
One night I beat up 5 skin heads by myself in a drunken rage.
I felt really bad when I found out they were chemo patients at the local cancer center.

 

[MACVSOG68]

Welcome LaRueLaDue, and oh no my cover is blown.     I thought it might be outloud.  rats!

Why no.  You are the first to mention these things to me.  Let us see. 

1 "Legality."  I does seem like illegal immigrants do conflict with the whole "legality" thing, however Reagan amnestied millions of illegals and they then were legal.  Seems like an easy fix to this problem.

2 "Respect for our laws." again another tricky problem.  Existing in the US as an illegal immigrant does conflict with the whole "respect for our laws" thing, and quite honestly I don't feel comfortable solving this problem as I have been known to speed in excess of posted federal highway speed limits, jaywalk, cheat on my taxes, fish without a license, and commit indecent and unlawful acts with a minor...however in my defense that Golden Labrador Retriever said she was 18.  It is currently legal to murder a child in the womb.  It happens almost a million times a year.  I have no respect for that law.  I suspect I would have no respect for the legalized slavery the US sanctioned for it's first 100 years.  When the law is wrong I can't respect it.  Our outdated immigration laws are wrong.  They should be revised.

My morality comes to me through Christ, and I believe it exceeds the written laws of men.

3 "Respect for our country." - we are talking about the country that elected Obama twice right?  The same one the re-elected the rapist in 1996?  I got nothin'

Still my post was quite specific about the knuckle dragging cross-burning troglodytes I was talking about, "the illegal hating xenophobe(which is a fancy way of saying racist)."  Some one who opposes illegal immigration on the issue of fairness to legal immigrants would not fall under that category.  The issue of gangs is an irrelevancy.  There are plenty of homegrown gangs.  Illegal gang activity is illegal gang activity.  My post seems to have spoken to you, however.  Perhaps I should thank you.

Now that's perspective!