Part 2: So Why Don't I Like Donald Trump?

[andy58-in-nh]

The Left has succeeded in so many ways, but perhaps in none more profoundly disappointing and disheartening to those of us who love Liberty than in reducing its adversaries into warring tribes, dividing and conquering the Western civilization that they abhor, in the service of the Mother of All Social Revolutions.

Can we conservatives, in our present fractious state not understand that they would love to see someone like Donald Trump be nominated, the better to lead Republicans into the final abyss?

He has no beliefs, save his own personal aggrandizement. He has no principles. He has no sense of honor, or duty, or decency. He does not value our Constitution or what it proclaims about the inalienable rights, not just of Americans, but of all human beings.   

Why would you ever think that he does?  He never speaks of such things. Ever.

And all of those things - the timeless values that define the human spirit, the things that inform and enlighten, those that represent the triumph not of will but of intellect, the recognition of objective reality and of the inalienable rights of man - all of those values are what now and have always separated man from beasts and also those who act like beasts. And they are under assault by the enemies of freedom, here, there, and everywhere.

Suddenly, individual liberty is held inferior to communal need. Property is theft. Personal responsibility is an outmoded social construct. There are no men or women, but only polymorphous sexual beings. Human life has no special value, nor in some quarters, any value at all.

Let us stop fighting each other and turn toward the true enemies of the things we all hold dear. We need not agree on means or even the persons we seek as appropriate leaders to pursue them. Be we had damned well better agree on the ends. Else, they will evaporate.

But I'll still say this: if anyone here can adduce compelling evidence purporting to show that Donald Trump gives a good goddam about anything other than his own self-promotion, then I'm more than willing to listen. But so far, all I hear is a big mouth telling people what they want to hear, instead of what they need to hear.

If history teaches us anything about politics, it is that appeals to the baser instincts, particularly those of fear and loathing, often win the day... and then invite the night.

[EdinVA]

...all I hear is a big mouth telling people what they want to hear, instead of what they need to hear.

You described all candidates, republican, democrat or independent but you slam Trump for it?
It is obvious you do not like Trump... that is ok, not trying to convince you one way or the other but the anti-Trump folks are letting their emotion cloud their communication.

You say nothing about his financial plan, good or bad?
How about his position on national security?
How about his position on foreign policy?

A person MUST be an ego maniac to voluntarily put yourself thru a year and a half of accusations, allegations, slander, name calling, threats and more.
People yell because Trump talks about his business success, but the other candidates, rightly so, so the same thing when they talk about their successes, real or not, as governors/senators/CEO's/Dr's etc.
It is just that Trump has actually done something rather than be a politician and run for office using other peoples money.

[sinkspur]

Trump's tax plan would add $10 trillion to the deficit. In addition, he would drive more of the "billionaire class's" money offshore, where it couldn't be touched by taxes.

Trump's foreign policy:  let Russia fight ISIS.

National security?  Trump thinks he's going to ship TWELVE MILLION illegals over the southern border in two years.

Trump has run out of things to do, so he runs for president. It's a toy to him. He doesn't care about you or anybody else. He never has.

Remember, Donald Trump was a Democrat up until the day before yesterday.

[EdinVA]

Trump's tax plan would add $10 trillion to the deficit. In addition, he would drive more of the "billionaire class's" money offshore, where it couldn't be touched by taxes.

Not everyone that has read the plan agrees with you.

"A significant revenue gain would come from a one-time tax on overseas profits that could encourage U.S. multinational corporations to return an estimated $2.1 trillion in cash now sitting offshore, largely to avoid U.S. taxes. His proposal would impose a mandatory 10% tax on all of that money, even if the money stays overseas, but allow a few years for the tax to be paid. The Trump campaign estimates that many companies would choose to bring their money back home, boosting jobs and investment in the U.S."

http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-plan-cuts-taxes-for-millions-1443427200

Trump's foreign policy:  let Russia fight ISIS.

Why not?
ISIS is a global problem so why can't Russia fight them?

National security?  Trump thinks he's going to ship TWELVE MILLION illegals over the southern border in two years.

So the only thing Trump has talked about is illegals?
I think you missed something.

Trump has run out of things to do, so he runs for president. It's a toy to him. He doesn't care about you or anybody else. He never has.

The presidential office is not about ME, it is about the USA.
I don't want the federal government to CARE about me, they fail at it every time they try and it costs me too much. I am responsible for me.

Remember, Donald Trump was a Democrat up until the day before yesterday.

So, the party is all that matters to you?
Granted, the Dems have really weak/weird/crocked candidates but I vote for the best candidate for the USA and normally it is republican.

[sinkspur]

EdinVA, Donald Trump has you fooled. Does it bother you that he would have ZERO support in Congress if he were to be elected? 

[Oceander]

You described all candidates, republican, democrat or independent but you slam Trump for it?
It is obvious you do not like Trump... that is ok, not trying to convince you one way or the other but the anti-Trump folks are letting their emotion cloud their communication.

You say nothing about his financial plan, good or bad?
How about his position on national security?
How about his position on foreign policy?

A person MUST be an ego maniac to voluntarily put yourself thru a year and a half of accusations, allegations, slander, name calling, threats and more.
People yell because Trump talks about his business success, but the other candidates, rightly so, so the same thing when they talk about their successes, real or not, as governors/senators/CEO's/Dr's etc.
It is just that Trump has actually done something rather than be a politician and run for office using other peoples money.

He did nothing of the sort.  Trump is pandering, telling people only what they want to hear.  By way of 180 degree contrast, Reagan more often than not told people what they needed to hear.  His gift was in being able to present that in a positive light, to be constructive.

[Fishrrman]

Andy, everything you wrote above is eloquent and pretty accurate (as usual!), but in the end, it doesn't matter.

As you stated:
"If history teaches us anything about politics, it is that appeals to the baser instincts, particularly those of fear and loathing, often win the day... and then invite the night."

Again, doesn't matter.
Politics is what it is.
You're not going to change it, nor is anyone else.
It simply is what it is, and this is how it's going to BE until the lights go out.

Now that the 'rat candidate is going to be Hillary, which of the Pubbies (other than Trump) would you reckon has the gumption, guts and big mouth to stop her?

Because those are the things that it's going to TAKE to "stop her", not so much logic and an appeal to the better angels of our nature.

I heartily endorse the angst that Mr. Trump has created within the DC establishment, and I want to see more of it from him. The more he manipulates the media, the louder I will cheer.
I believe he's going to be the nominee, and I sense he may be the only one of the Pubbies that actually has a chance .... a chance .... at beating o'er-the-Hillary.

But let me also be clear that everything you have said about him is accurate.
I realize this too -- I don't turn away from it.

But politics is what it is.
If we want to win, we better hitch ourselves to a winning candidate and run with him.
The alternative is another Bob Dole.
Another John McCain.
Another Mitt Romney.
Is this what you truly want?

[Oceander]

Get on board the Chump train more like it.

[Fishrrman]

Oceander wrote above:
[[ Get on board the Chump train more like it. ]]

Could be. Won't deny that.
You could be right... or you could be wrong.

But this year, it doesn't matter.

See the tail end of that streetcar above?
(aside: isn't that Buster Keaton?)

That's the "last car" running.
One can choose to get on, or choose to be left behind.

Can't say what I'm gonna do yet...

[aligncare]

One of the things Trump's loudmouth often talks about is improving the way veterans are treated - their health and in general. As a Vietnam vet, I totally get that. I've had my run in with the VA after discharge. I also remember how my military service in the post-Vietnam era was mocked by the public. It was not a good time for men in uniform.

That focus on veterans issues makes Donald Trump an honorable patriot in my eyes.

[aligncare]

Let me offer an opinion as to why you don't like Trump. His personality. Plain and simple. He doesn't speak politicalese and doesn't do political theater. Jeb cornered the market on that for the enjoyment of  devotees of political Kabuki.

As for all the rest of your objections? "He has no principles. He has no sense of honor, or duty, or decency. He does not value our Constitution..."  I have no idea where those assertions come from.

Nothing in anything I've see or read about the man leads me anywhere near those conclusions.

[andy58-in-nh]

Let me offer an opinion as to why you don't like Trump. His personality. Plain and simple. He doesn't speak politicalese and doesn't do political theater. Jeb cornered the market on that for the enjoyment of  devotees of political Kabuki.

As for all the rest of your objections? "He has no principles. He has no sense of honor, or duty, or decency. He does not value our Constitution..."  I have no idea where those assertions come from.

Nothing in anything I've see or read about the man leads me anywhere near those conclusions.

The problem I have with Trump is not his personality.

It's the reason he has the personality he does.

The man is boorish, rude, obnoxious, and condescendingly dismissive of others. He makes no effort to understand issues and problems, or to expand his knowledge of them, but instead insists that everyone else knows nothing. He is quick to anger, and appears to hold grudges. That is not the temperament I want in a president. Obama's lack of character and poor manners have been bad enough.

He never speaks about liberty or about America's tragic loss of it. I have never once heard Donald Trump speak about our Constitution or American exceptionalism, or about how both are under assault by Progressive liberalism specifically, and collectivism, generally. His knowledge of foreign affairs is embarrassingly thin. He does not talk about how he wants to serve, only about how wonderful everything will be when he is President.

I happen to appreciate Trumps's focus on illegal immigration and on Veteran's affairs. But his solutions, as with his other announced plans, do not demonstrate a level of understanding that one would expect from someone with even a casual level of experience in government. And that may not hurt him now, since most of us are looking for some sort of political "outsider" (e.g. -  NOT Jeb Bush or anyone like him), but it will be devastating when he has to debate Hillary Clinton, who has been in law and government all of her life. Whereas that ought to be a liability for her, she'll make it an asset.

[aligncare]

The man is boorish, rude, obnoxious, and condescendingly dismissive of others

No argument here.

It's your statement about Trump's lacking "honor, duty or decency" that gave me pause. On what basis does one reach that conclusion?

[EC]

The man is boorish, rude, obnoxious, and condescendingly dismissive of others

No argument here.

It's your statement about Trump's lacking "honor, duty or decency" that gave me pause. On what basis does one reach that conclusion?

I'll give you one that gives me more pause than most about Trump.

"I did very well." His own words when he got out of Atlantic City casinos.
Yes, bankruptcies happen. Casinos do go under for a whole host of reasons (frequently mismanagement).

It still gives me pause though, as it firmly sets in my mind that Trump is about Trump. Do you want a President who bails when it's to HIS advantage, screw everyone else?

[aligncare]

I'll give you one that gives me more pause than most about Trump.

"I did very well." His own words when he got out of Atlantic City casinos.
Yes, bankruptcies happen. Casinos do go under for a whole host of reasons (frequently mismanagement).

It still gives me pause though, as it firmly sets in my mind that Trump is about Trump. Do you want a President who bails when it's to HIS advantage, screw everyone else?

Three other casinos struggling under the same set of economic reality facing Trump's casino went under in Atlantic City. And these were not fly-by-night operations, they were the big boys. Wynn, MGM Grand, and one other I can't recall at the moment. The interesting point of this is that, of the four casinos that went under, Trump's casino was doing the best financially. Of course not well enough to stay in business.

By the way, Atlantic City is still struggling financially all these years later. It's unfair to slam Trump for what happened to Atlantic City in the 90s.

[EC]

You missed the point, my friend.

The point was not the casinos failed. The point it the Donald bailed at good terms for himself. For others, including the ones who actually put up the money, not so much.

Same with the airline he took on. He got into the biz, knowing nothing about it, ignored his advisors, and got out on good terms for himself before the airline folded.

I'm not denying he makes good deals for himself. I see no evidence what-so-ever that he even knows how to make deals for the greater good. That worries me, and stands completely apart from his temperament.

[aligncare]

You missed the point, my friend.

The point was not the casinos failed. The point it the Donald bailed at good terms for himself. For others, including the ones who actually put up the money, not so much.

Same with the airline he took on. He got into the biz, knowing nothing about it, ignored his advisors, and got out on good terms for himself before the airline folded.

I'm not denying he makes good deals for himself. I see no evidence what-so-ever that he even knows how to make deals for the greater good. That worries me, and stands completely apart from his temperament.

Then your comment begs the question. If we elect Donald Trump, who do you believe he would be working for as president of the United States. I believe he would be working for the people of the United States and US interests abroad. Of course, your mileage may vary.

[EdinVA]

I see no evidence what-so-ever that he even knows how to make deals for the greater good. That worries me, and stands completely apart from his temperament.

You may be right EC but the same holds true for the other candidates.
Will they make deals for the greater good or the GOP?  That has been the problem for the last 50 years, party first, screw the rest.