Rand Paul: I’m the Only GOP Candidate Who Doesn’t Want to ‘Blow Up the World’

[DCPatriot]

But it is futile to be talking now, when the urgency has waned. I think we should retreat from the muslim world, to as great an extent as possible. But in so doing, we should issue a warning. Mess with us, at your peril.

Not so sure, when your enemy is not afraid to die...when they believe it guarantees them a card to paradise?

It's what made the kamikaze pilots so hard to deal with in your example of WWII.

[aligncare]

I'm still all for arming them all with the best weapons our money can buy.  And then turning around and locking the door so no one gets out.

There is no reason why American men and women have to fight again and again in the Middle East.   It's enough.  I'm not sending my kids, their friends, relatives or total American strangers on one more Army charter to that hellhole.

Good points. I'm fine letting European and regional powers handle security over there. I'm not in a 1942 frame of mind. I'd rather secure our border(s) and take care of business at home.

[evadR]

AT this point and under today's reality, we don't need to kill everybody. We just need to start killing the "right people".

[evadR]

Not so sure, when your enemy is not afraid to die...when they believe it guarantees them a card to paradise?

It's what made the kamikaze pilots so hard to deal with in your example of WWII.

Agreed. That's why the only sure answer is to send their crazy assed leaders to their happy hunting ground.

[Fishrrman]

truth_seeker wrote above:
[[ But it is futile to be talking now, when the urgency has waned. I think we should retreat from the muslim world, to as great an extent as possible. ]]

If I recall, that was precisely Osama bin Laden's objective:
To force The West out of the islamic world.

I've asked this question many, many times on this forum:
Who's winning?

Having said that, I actually tend to agree with you, particularly regarding the second half of your post:
[[ But in so doing, we should issue a warning. Mess with us, at your peril. ]]

However, there are few living who have witnessed the consequences of such a warning, when carried to the extremis.

How might this be demonstrated to islam?

[EdinVA]

How might this be demonstrated to islam?

Mushrooms come to mind.... 

[DCPatriot]

Mushrooms come to mind.... 

Which would immediately justify Iran's reason for obtaining nukes.   

[EdinVA]

Which would immediately justify Iran's reason for obtaining nukes.   

Iran needs justification?
Either fix this now or your grandkids will have to... your choice..

[DCPatriot]

Iran needs justification?
Either fix this now or your grandkids will have to... your choice..

I was basically saying that in reality, we are on record as saying Iran must not obtain the nuke capability.

And in reality, what right do we have to do that?  What if roles were reversed?  Would we give a fig what they thought?

Making mushroom clouds over the Middle East to deal with this crazy bass turds, only incentivizes their current path.

I'd rather go the route we supposedly used with Libya.  Drop a bomb thru a chimney and kill their leaders before we talk about using nukes.

[aligncare]

I was basically saying that in reality, we are on record as saying Iran must not obtain the nuke capability.

And in reality, what right do we have to do that?  What if roles were reversed?  Would we give a fig what they thought?

Making mushroom clouds over the Middle East to deal with this crazy bass turds, only incentivizes their current path.

I'd rather go the route we supposedly used with Libya.  Drop a bomb thru a chimney and kill their leaders before we talk about using nukes.

Damn sensible position, DC.

I'm not interested in demonstrating American power either.

I'm sure even the Islamo-crazies understand American might. But what they haven't seen demonstrated lately is American resolve. And that does not mean us having to be spread across the Middle East. Our money and influence can go along way to assist regional opposition to ISIS. There are some sane regimes in the Middle East that want ISIS gone, too.

[massadvj]

There are some sane regimes in the Middle East that want ISIS gone, too.

The problem with the Middle East is that the same powers claiming to want ISIS gone are funding ISIS through back channels.  That is how business is done in the Middle East.  Wars are just one more method of fluid negotiation, not a means to bring an end to conflict, which is why this same basic war has been ongoing for thousands of years.

We are being played for suckers.  Rand Paul is the only Republican in the field who seems to recognize this fundamental truth.  I think he needs to articulate how we can do more to instill in Middle Easterners a better understanding of the term "Don't Tread on Me," but his fundamental default choice of non-interventionism is not wrong IMHO.

[EdinVA]

I was basically saying that in reality, we are on record as saying Iran must not obtain the nuke capability.

And in reality, what right do we have to do that?  What if roles were reversed?  Would we give a fig what they thought?

Making mushroom clouds over the Middle East to deal with this crazy bass turds, only incentivizes their current path.

I'd rather go the route we supposedly used with Libya.  Drop a bomb thru a chimney and kill their leaders before we talk about using nukes.

We have killed hundreds of their "leaders", what did that get us?

[musiclady]

Good points. I'm fine letting European and regional powers handle security over there. I'm not in a 1942 frame of mind. I'd rather secure our border(s) and take care of business at home.

I don't know, aligncare......  the 1942 frame of mind saved the world from Nazis and Japanese Imperialists.

I'm not sure that's such a bad thing to emulate.

[musiclady]

We have killed hundreds of their "leaders", what did that get us?

More leaders waiting their turn.

(IOW, it ain't working).

[Bigun]

We have killed hundreds of their "leaders", what did that get us?

Haven't got the right ones yet! They are the ones currently running things in Iran!

[aligncare]

I don't know, aligncare......  the 1942 frame of mind saved the world from Nazis and Japanese Imperialists.

I'm not sure that's such a bad thing to emulate.

Respectfully, ISIS merely aspires to the might and lethality of those regimes.

However, I do understand that ISIS is not a JV team: they've conquered much territory and inspire a lot of fear wherever they go – and with reason.  They're nuts!

[musiclady]

Respectfully, ISIS merely aspires to the might and lethality of those regimes.

However, I do understand that ISIS is not a JV team: they've conquered much territory and inspire a lot of fear wherever they go – and with reason.  They're nuts!

I completely agree that ISIS is not yet as powerful as either German or Japan, which is for me one of the reasons that we should be able to apply American military might to them and defeat them.

The problem is that even liberal FDR understood that they were the enemy.

Obama is too ideologically blind to even NAME the enemy, much less defeat them.

[evadR]

We have killed hundreds of their "leaders", what did that get us?

A good start. Up the program by 500%

[libertybele]

I completely agree that ISIS is not yet as powerful as either German or Japan, which is for me one of the reasons that we should be able to apply American military might to them and defeat them.

The problem is that even liberal FDR understood that they were the enemy.

Obama is too ideologically blind to even NAME the enemy, much less defeat them.

Yes, we should apply our military might to defeat them; but the problem still remains that they are already inside the U.S and Obama is running the show for another year.

[EdinVA]

Respectfully, ISIS merely aspires to the might and lethality of those regimes.

However, I do understand that ISIS is not a JV team: they've conquered much territory and inspire a lot of fear wherever they go – and with reason.  They're nuts!

Keep in mind, that ISIS is the flavor de jour, the world has endured islamic terrorists attacks for the last 6 decades, if not centuries.
This is not a movement that is going away until they are made to understand it will no longer be condoned.

[Bigun]

Keep in mind, that ISIS is the flavor de jour, the world has endured islamic terrorists attacks for the last 6 decades, if not centuries.
This is not a movement that is going away until they are made to understand it will no longer be condoned.

The United States Marines made that point on the shores of Tripoli more than 200 years ago and it lasted a LONG time!

[bkepley]

The United States Marines made that point on the shores of Tripoli more than 200 years ago and it lasted a LONG time!

Surely you don't believe the two things are equivalent?  How many billions and how many lives have we wasted trying to deal with Islamic radicalism.  200 we sent a couple hundred soldiers and sailors to deal with a decadent people.  What we are dealing with today is completely different.

[Dexter]

Mushrooms come to mind.... 

"As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."

[Bigun]

Surely you don't believe the two things are equivalent?  How many billions and how many lives have we wasted trying to deal with Islamic radicalism.  200 we sent a couple hundred soldiers and sailors to deal with a decadent people.  What we are dealing with today is completely different.

The methodology is the exact same!

[bkepley]

The methodology is the exact same!

I don't think so or we would have cleaned them out without spending more than a couple of million dollars and a handful of casualties.  Face it, unless you are willing to kill millions, possibly billions they're not going away any time soon.