The New Battle Lines: Elitists Vs. Us

[Formerly Once-Ler]

I do appreciate your honesty, that you are an Elitist, and an enemy of the people. You, of course, are my sworn enemy  as well, then.

To your question: "I wonder why "the people" are represented by so few real conservatives?"

The liberals in the GOP ally with the entire Democrat party to take down anyone who is a Populist. That, plus since you guys managed to seize the machinery after Reagan, makes it so you rigged the primary system pretty well. Then, you offer us non-choices.

The MAN be keeping you down Laz!!!



Lots of people who feel powerless create conspiracies to explain their powerlessness.  The reason why "the people" reject fringe conservatives is that those fringe conservatives don't represent the views of "the people."  It is that simple.

Oh, you got your way. No question.

Now America is unsustainable, especially economically, and you will rule over smoldering ruins.

Well the good news is Senator Cruz says the American people will rise up this time...unlike the 2013 shutdown, or the midterm primaries.

[andy58-in-nh]

You're a real barrel of laughs aren't you?

It isn't about ME! it's about the LAW you damned fool!

People who buy into the "Dreamer" fantasy think the law is irrelevant.

Yep. Right up until one of them drives drunk, unlicensed, unregistered, uninsured, after having been let go by the "law" for the umpteenth time... and kills one of their family members and then walks because... they're only doing the jobs Americans won't do.  Like selling crystal meth and whoring on the streets of Manchester. Every damned day I see it, and I've had enough. 

I don't know about where you live but when you read the police blotter in newspapers around this region, it sounds like the El Salvador phone book.

If immigrants truly want the American Dream, then I think we need to let them in. But they first need to earn it legally, the same way that my great-grandparents did, when they arrived here with no money, only the clothes on their backs, and speaking only a few words of English.

But back then, they had respect and love for the United States and for the rule of law. Today, our President doesn't even have that.

[DCPatriot]

My neighbor is a large regional painting contractor, and very conservative. He is against illegal immigration, but he admits they are the workers he can hire that actually show up to work reliably.

White boys will take a few days off after pay day, to tweak on meth etc.

And brothers don't show up on time...or at all.   

[DCPatriot]

Great story! Unfortunately it is totally irrelevant to the law regarding illegals!

Yeah...but if you're a business owner, it's the ONLY thing that's relevant. 

[DCPatriot]

"And honey, you make sure you don't find yourself in a hallway alone with this guy here!"   

[Luis Gonzalez]

People who buy into the "Dreamer" fantasy think the law is irrelevant.

Yep. Right up until one of them drives drunk, unlicensed, unregistered, uninsured, after having been let go by the "law" for the umpteenth time... and kills one of their family members and then walks because... they're only doing the jobs Americans won't do.  Like selling crystal meth and whoring on the streets of Manchester. Every damned day I see it, and I've had enough. 

Does it hurt less if that drunk, unlicensed, unregistered, uninsured scofflaw is native-born?

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Right up until one of them drives drunk, unlicensed, unregistered, uninsured, after having been let go by the "law" for the umpteenth time... and kills one of their family members and then walks because... they're only doing the jobs Americans won't do. 

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,176159.0.html
"I love our country, but sometimes it’s jobs that a citizen of the United States doesn’t want to do. I mean, there are jobs that a lot of people don’t want to do." - Trump

Respectfully Andy, I take no joy in writing this...you are being played.

[Luis Gonzalez]

From Conservative Tribune, 7/31/15:

Notice the Asterisk on Your Social Security Statement? What It Means Has Seniors Panicking

We’ve all been taught, in spite of the utter improbability of it, that whatever we pay into Social Security will be there when we retire. However, even the Social Security Administration admits that’s not true … and if you don’t believe me, just look at the asterisk on your Social Security statement.

A writer for National Review explained that his statement said he could expect to receive “about $2,136 a month” if he were to retire at age 70. However, the asterisk that appeared on the statement revealed there was a bit of a catch.

“The law governing benefit amounts may change because, by 2033, the payroll taxes collected will be enough to pay only about 77 percent of scheduled benefits,” the footnote read.

That would be a reduction of about $492 a month for the writer — quite a significant chunk.

But wait, there’s more — and it only gets worse.

The same writer referred to his 2009 Social Security statement, which bore a similar asterisk. The text, however, was different.

“The law governing benefit amounts may change because, by 2041, the payroll taxes collected will be enough to pay only about 78 percent of your scheduled benefits,” that message read.

In a period of six years, the timeline has shifted eight years earlier and one percentage point down. And, if the 2014 Social Security Trustees Report is any indication, we can continue to expect both numbers to get lower.

More at http://conservativetribune.com/asterisk-social-security-means/

So, how is any of that relevant to this discussion that seems to have descended into another argument about illegals?

Well, there's this:

STOCKTON, Calif. - Since illegally crossing the Mexican border into the United States six years ago, Ángel Martínez has done backbreaking work, harvesting asparagus, pruning grapevines and picking the ripe fruit. More recently, he has also washed trucks, often working as much as 70 hours a week, earning $8.50 to $12.75 an hour.

Not surprisingly, Mr. Martínez, 28, has not given much thought to Social Security's long-term financial problems. But Mr. Martínez -- who comes from the state of Oaxaca in southern Mexico and hiked for two days through the desert to enter the United States near Tecate, some 20 miles east of Tijuana -- contributes more than most Americans to the solvency of the nation's public retirement system.

Last year, Mr. Martínez paid about $2,000 toward Social Security and $450 for Medicare through payroll taxes withheld from his wages. Yet unlike most Americans, who will receive some form of a public pension in retirement and will be eligible for Medicare as soon as they turn 65, Mr. Martínez is not entitled to benefits.

He belongs to a big club. As the debate over Social Security heats up, the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year.

While it has been evident for years that illegal immigrants pay a variety of taxes, the extent of their contributions to Social Security is striking: the money added up to about 10 percent of last year's surplus -- the difference between what the system currently receives in payroll taxes and what it doles out in pension benefits. Moreover, the money paid by illegal workers and their employers is factored into all the Social Security Administration's projections.

Illegal immigration, Marcelo Suárez-Orozco, co-director of immigration studies at New York University, noted sardonically, could provide "the fastest way to shore up the long-term finances of Social Security."

It is impossible to know exactly how many illegal immigrant workers pay taxes. But according to specialists, most of them do. Since 1986, when the Immigration Reform and Control Act set penalties for employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants, most such workers have been forced to buy fake ID's to get a job.

Currently available for about $150 on street corners in just about any immigrant neighborhood in California, a typical fake ID package includes a green card and a Social Security card. It provides cover for employers, who, if asked, can plausibly assert that they believe all their workers are legal. It also means that workers must be paid by the book -- with payroll tax deductions.

IRCA, as the immigration act is known, did little to deter employers from hiring illegal immigrants or to discourage them from working. But for Social Security's finances, it was a great piece of legislation.

Starting in the late 1980's, the Social Security Administration received a flood of W-2 earnings reports with incorrect -- sometimes simply fictitious -- Social Security numbers. It stashed them in what it calls the "earnings suspense file" in the hope that someday it would figure out whom they belonged to.

The file has been mushrooming ever since: $189 billion worth of wages ended up recorded in the suspense file over the 1990's, two and a half times the amount of the 1980's.

In the current decade, the file is growing, on average, by more than $50 billion a year, generating $6 billion to $7 billion in Social Security tax revenue and about $1.5 billion in Medicare taxes.

In 2002 alone, the last year with figures released by the Social Security Administration, nine million W-2's with incorrect Social Security numbers landed in the suspense file, accounting for $56 billion in earnings, or about 1.5 percent of total reported wages.

Social Security officials do not know what fraction of the suspense file corresponds to the earnings of illegal immigrants. But they suspect that the portion is significant.

"Our assumption is that about three-quarters of other-than-legal immigrants pay payroll taxes," said Stephen C. Goss, Social Security's chief actuary, using the agency's term for illegal immigration.

Other researchers say illegal immigrants are the main contributors to the suspense file. "Illegal immigrants account for the vast majority of the suspense file," said Nick Theodore, the director of the Center for Urban Economic Development at the University of Illinois at Chicago. "Especially its growth over the 1990's, as more and more undocumented immigrants entered the work force."

Using data from the Census Bureau's current population survey, Steven Camarota, director of research at the Center for Immigration Studies, an advocacy group in Washington that favors more limits on immigration, estimated that 3.8 million households headed by illegal immigrants generated $6.4 billion in Social Security taxes in 2002.

A comparative handful of former illegal immigrant workers who have obtained legal residence have been able to accredit their previous earnings to their new legal Social Security numbers. Mr. Camarota is among those opposed to granting a broad amnesty to illegal immigrants, arguing that, among other things, they might claim Social Security benefits and put further financial stress on the system.

The mismatched W-2's fit like a glove on illegal immigrants' known geographic distribution and the patchwork of jobs they typically hold. An audit found that more than half of the 100 employers filing the most earnings reports with false Social Security numbers from 1997 through 2001 came from just three states: California, Texas and Illinois. According to an analysis by the Government Accountability Office, about 17 percent of the businesses with inaccurate W-2's were restaurants, 10 percent were construction companies and 7 percent were farm operations.

Most immigration helps Social Security's finances, because new immigrants tend to be of working age and contribute more than they take from the system. A simulation by Social Security's actuaries found that if net immigration ran at 1.3 million a year instead of the 900,000 in their central assumption, the system's 75-year funding gap would narrow to 1.67 percent of total payroll, from 1.92 percent -- savings that come out to half a trillion dollars, valued in today's money.

Hmmmm...

Illegal aliens floating Social Security?

Can that be possible?

Well, this research group seems to think so:

From Reports on America, Vol 3, No.1 "Government Spending" by the Population Reference Bureau:

Many attempts have been made to estimate the fiscal impact of immigration, which not only generates demand for public education, health care, and other services, but also expands the tax base and slows the aging of the population. Some economists rely on cross-sectional estimates, using current data on immigrant households to compare benefits received from the government at all levels and taxes paid this year. But to investigate the long-term fiscal impact, analysis must take into account the expected payments over the life of an immigrant, and even the lifetimes of the immigrant’s children and grandchildren.

According to a study panel under the auspices of the National Academy of Sciences, the longterm impact of a newly arrived immigrant turns out to depend greatly on the immigrant’s age at arrival. An average 20 year-old has many years in which to work and pay taxes before reaching the age when individuals typically receive more from the government than they pay in taxes. A 50-yearold, by contrast, is expected to work for only a few more years before becoming a net consumer of government services. The long-term impact also varies significantly with the immigrant’s education: Those with more education are likely to pay higher taxes during their working years, and the benefits they receive from government are not proportionately higher.

In a recent update of estimates prepared for the panel, Ronald Lee and Timothy Miller found that each additional immigrant with characteristics (such as age, education, and family size) typical of recent immigrants has a “net present value” of $46,000. That is, a new immigrant’s impact over the next 75 years is expected to be equivalent to a one-time investment of $46,000. But Lee and Miller estimate that the country would need to admit an additional 5 million immigrants per year, quintupling the current level of immigration, in order to achieve long-term balance in the Social Security trust fund. A recent report from the United Nations Population Division reached a similar conclusion for European countries, announcing that even much larger migration flows than are currently permitted would not counterbalance the effects of population aging.

To maintain the 2000 ratio between the working-age population (people between the ages of 20 and 64) and the older population (people ages 65 and older), the United States would need roughly 95 million more working-age persons in 2025, in addition to those already expected at current levels of immigration. In other words, if the entire working-age population of Mexico were to move to the United States in 2025, there still would not be enough people to restore the old-age dependency ratio of 2000.

Carry on.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

From Conservative Tribune, 7/31/15:

So, how is any of that relevant to this discussion that seems to have descended into another argument about illegals?

Well, there's this:

Hmmmm...

Illegal aliens floating Social Security?

Can that be possible?

Well, this research group seems to think so:

From Reports on America, Vol 3, No.1 "Government Spending" by the Population Reference Bureau:

Carry on.

LUIS!  You are opening up Pandora's box.  Fat, single language stupid, and lazy 'Mericans don't want to hear that sh*t.  Their government checks are funded on the sweaty backs of the people they despise as diseased criminal subhumans...tread lightly.  You will not be thanked for revealing TRUTH.

[DCPatriot]

Does it hurt less if that drunk, unlicensed, unregistered, uninsured scofflaw is native-born?

It provides a focused, justified rage in so much that if the perp wasn't here illegally with the blessing of the government that the victims would still be alive or uninjured. 

All of us realize "sh*t happens", but it's hard to accept, when in our minds it shouldn't have happened at all.

[Lazamataz]

The MAN be keeping you down Laz!!!

Lots of people who feel powerless create conspiracies to explain their powerlessness.  The reason why "the people" reject fringe conservatives is that those fringe conservatives don't represent the views of "the people."  It is that simple.

Well the good news is Senator Cruz says the American people will rise up this time...unlike the 2013 shutdown, or the midterm primaries.

A) Mockery is right out of Alinsky. Congrats on your storied mentor!

B) Everyone is powerless. If you believe otherwise, welcome to a life of disappointment.

C) Conspiracies that are true are called 'plans'.

I am unsurprised at your response. I'm sure you are either a RINO/Establishment official, or a huge backer thereof -- one that is likely to see a payoff, either monetary or otherwise. You've got some skin in the game.

[Lazamataz]

Hey Luis. Just an aside: Fairly happy this editorial generated a good deal of traffic. I'm even grateful for the flak. That means I'm over the target. :)

Stay safe brother. Times will be getting 'interesting'.

[Luis Gonzalez]

It provides a focused, justified rage in so much that if the perp wasn't here illegally with the blessing of the government that the victims would still be alive or uninjured. 

All of us realize "sh*t happens", but it's hard to accept, when in our minds it shouldn't have happened at all.

It should never happen at all, but if we're going to justifiably rage then we should do so for all the victims of drunken scofflaws illegally driving.

We criticize black rabble rousers for only crying about black lives mattering when those black lives are ended by a Caucasian while completely ignoring the fact that black lives are ended in far greater numbers by other blacks than by whites, but we ourselves then turn around and exhibit a far higher degree of justifiable rage when the deaths are caused by someone whose legal status is part of a political issue than when not.

If the victims (as it is the case with another story in the news today) had been gunned down in a road rage incident by a native son with a criminal record because they offered him assistance, then the left would be using those victims as poster children in their argument for higher gun control, while we stood firm on the Second Amendment, arguing that "guns don't kill people".

We all have our thing I guess.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Hey Luis. Just an aside: Fairly happy this editorial generated a good deal of traffic. I'm even grateful for the flak. That means I'm over the target. :)

Stay safe brother. Times will be getting 'interesting'.

Dude, when writing a piece like this what you want is to stir interest and an interesting (and heated) debate.

You nailed it.

[Lando Lincoln]

Late to the discussion as is my station, it seems.  Thanks for the contribution, Laz. 

In time, a choice will be presented to us on a Tuesday in a not-so-distant November.  I hope it provides an option better than (E) vs. (E).  I am not optimistic, but I will choose.  As must we all. 

My hope, because there is little else, is the pipeline.  My fear is nothing will matter a hell of a lot short of a truly sudden, existential "snap-to" event.  Our reality may be; given a generational indifference to traditional tenets of this society, driven and enabled by the political elitists, absolutely nothing may matter.

[Oceander]

It provides a focused, justified rage in so much that if the perp wasn't here illegally with the blessing of the government that the victims would still be alive or uninjured. 

All of us realize "sh*t happens", but it's hard to accept, when in our minds it shouldn't have happened at all.

Same goes every time a "native born" repeat offender finally takes out a family or a limo with a young bride and her brides' maids.  If the SOB hadn't been let out or let off after the first DUI/DWI and kept in jail, then the victims would still be here.

[Lazamataz]

Dude, when writing a piece like this what you want is to stir interest and an interesting (and heated) debate.

You nailed it.

LOL, yeah, I guess I did.

Hey, quick story: It was about 2001 or 2002, and you are the very first person who did the "Wow, Laz, you write well" thing on Free Republic. I was taken aback, no one had ever posted anything like that to me before. Now I get quite a few posts like that, and my answer today is what my answer was back then: "Meh. I'm just some jerk with a keyboard."

:)

[Luis Gonzalez]

LOL, yeah, I guess I did.

Hey, quick story: It was about 2001 or 2002, and you are the very first person who did the "Wow, Laz, you write well" thing on Free Republic. I was taken aback, no one had ever posted anything like that to me before. Now I get quite a few posts like that, and my answer today is what my answer was back then: "
"Meh. I'm just some jerk with a keyboard."

:)

Aren't we all?

P.S. Did you do that Jabberwocky spoof?

[Lazamataz]

Aren't we all?

P.S. Did you do that Jabberwocky spoof?

I did. It's dated, now, but I feel it was one of my better works.

I cannot readily find it... :(

[Luis Gonzalez]

I did. It's dated, now, but I feel it was one of my better works.

I cannot readily find it... :(

That was brilliant..

I may have it. Let me look around.

[bkepley]

I did. It's dated, now, but I feel it was one of my better works.

I cannot readily find it... :(

So Laz did you ever turn in those illegals that you know to ICE?  I remember you made it a major argument to JR that I refused to inform on them then I asked yoy why you didn't inform and you said by God you would and thanked me for pointing out youe slackness.  So have yoy turned any in?

[mystery-ak]

So Laz did you ever turn in those illegals that you know to ICE?  I remember you made it a major argument to JR that I refused to inform on them then I asked yoy why you didn't inform and you said by God you would and thanked me for pointing out youe slackness.  So have yoy turned any in?

This is TBR...what happened at FR stays there..it has nothing to do with this site or this thread...if you want to pick a fight with Laz take it to Pm's....I would also consider utilizing the ignore feature.

[bkepley]

This is TBR...what happened at FR stays there..it has nothing to do with this site or this thread...if you want to pick a fight with Laz take it to Pm's....I would also consider utilizing the ignore feature.

So a guy can pretend to be one thing on one site and another on another site and no one should call him out on it because in both instances he makes himself a favorite?  Ok but it is dishonest in my opinion to portray yourself as a moderate on one site and an extremist on the other and evev to be encouraged to do this by the site mngmnt.

[mystery-ak]

So a guy can pretend to be one thing on one site and another on another site and no one should call him out on it because in both instances he makes himself a favorite?  Ok but it is dishonest in my opinion to portray yourself as a moderate on one site and an extremist on the other and evev to be encouraged to do this by the site mngmnt.

I don't care what he does on another site..as long as he behaves here and breaks no rules he is welcome here...act up and cause trouble, you're outta here!

[Lazamataz]

That was brilliant..

I may have it. Let me look around.

I hope you do! I'd love that one back in my library! :)