Author Topic: The Big Gay Marriage Lie  (Read 10351 times)

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Offline EdinVA

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #75 on: July 29, 2015, 03:59:22 pm »
I absolutely do not subscribe to mob rule Ed.  But I also don't subscribe to overregulating people in issues of moral conduct where victims don't exist.  We are supposed to be a free people and this bad conduct has been going on long before anyone ever thought about gay marriage.  But my question continues to be how to curtail it and turn us back into a moral people.  Who sets those moral standards?

The difficulty with setting moral standards is that all parties must agree on the measuring stick.
If your "opponents" do not believe in the bible or natural law or simply social order then we need to find something different to measure with.

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #76 on: July 29, 2015, 04:11:24 pm »
 
                       

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Offline musiclady

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #77 on: July 29, 2015, 04:22:26 pm »
Sex with a minor is rape, and is considered that in almost every jurisdiction.  You did say the gay marriage will lead to pedophilia, which is sex with minors legally incapable of giving consent.  Statutory rape is rape nonetheless if the victim cannot give consent.

What I actually have said is that opening the door legally to marriage other than a man and a woman will lead to legalizing other perversions which have previously been illegal.  And once again, the 'age of consent' is variable over time, and present standards as to who is a minor is not something set in stone.  The left has succeeded in loosening overall morality.  There is no reason, knowing how evil their motives are, to be certain about what they will do in the future.

They have opened the floodgates because they have changed the very meaning of the vocabulary regarding marriage.

And they control the message.

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I understood your earlier post as expressing a wish to see some entity setting standards involving such things as gay marriage and other such issues regardless of what the people determine is in their best interests or "desires".  If you are just calling for more education to change hearts and minds, I've no problem with that at all.  I've seen over the years what can happen when a government entity decides to step into the private lives of adults, and it ain't pretty!  And I think already a majority of Americans show up on polling as favoring some limitations on abortion.  That's a good thing.

The standard was previously there, MAC.  Until very recently, after decades of propaganda, 'the people' understood that marriage was between a man and a woman.  There is no reason to believe that with persuasive arguments (there are many) as to the damage removing the family as core of our culture (which the left has successfully done) has done and will continue to do, that 'hearts and minds' couldn't be changed.

The problem, of course, is that the left controls education, Hollywood, popular culture and the media, so we are, in essence voices crying in the wilderness.  That is not to say that it can't ever be done, but it would be a big mistake for all of us with moral convictions to cave to the pressure collapsing our culture right now.

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Good, because some would make that linkage.

Some would do that, not because they think I've actually made the connection, but because they like to make wild accusations for the sake of argument.  Unfortunately, they require disclaimers to prevent such absurdity.

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Absolutely nothing I disagree with.  I despise Obama and the left's overall agenda.  One roadblock to these moral dilemmas is the 14th Amendment.  People have a constitutional right to both due process and equal protection of the laws.  That we may feel differently about some issues, as conservatives we respect our institutions, and the USSC is one of those institutions.  I don't always agree with everything the president does or says, nor Congress or the SCOTUS.  But these are our institutions created by "We The People".

Good.  There is some common ground here.  Same principles, different conclusions.

I happen to side with our Founders who stated overtly that when we remove moral constraints from our culture, that our Republic will fail.  Part of the genius of those who founded our country is that they understood the sin-nature of human beings and protected others against it (checks and balances, etc.).  They also understood that when morality and freedom make the turn into license, the system will fall.

That's where we are right now.

Falling.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 04:24:34 pm by musiclady »
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #78 on: July 29, 2015, 05:38:32 pm »
The difficulty with setting moral standards is that all parties must agree on the measuring stick.
If your "opponents" do not believe in the bible or natural law or simply social order then we need to find something different to measure with.

Exactly.  It's predominately a cultural issue, for right or wrong.  I fear those who would point their moral compass into people's bedrooms, computers and theaters in order to regulate the moral conduct of adults, but I want as much as possible to prevent the victimization of those who cannot or will not give consent.
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #79 on: July 29, 2015, 06:00:06 pm »
What I actually have said is that opening the door legally to marriage other than a man and a woman will lead to legalizing other perversions which have previously been illegal.  And once again, the 'age of consent' is variable over time, and present standards as to who is a minor is not something set in stone.  The left has succeeded in loosening overall morality.  There is no reason, knowing how evil their motives are, to be certain about what they will do in the future.

They have opened the floodgates because they have changed the very meaning of the vocabulary regarding marriage.

And they control the message.

You must admit that over the past few years the criminal penalties for sex crimes of all types has generally increased, and with some states significantly to where deeds snickered at a few years ago now carry life penalties.  We see far more media coverage of such activity and prosecutions of priests, teachers, parents and others are in the news almost daily.  Today you can read of an 18 year old boy facing 20 years for having sex with a 17 year old girl. 

In spite of all of the loosening of our traditionally moral fabric, this area is tightening up almost to a fault.

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The standard was previously there, MAC.  Until very recently, after decades of propaganda, 'the people' understood that marriage was between a man and a woman.  There is no reason to believe that with persuasive arguments (there are many) as to the damage removing the family as core of our culture (which the left has successfully done) has done and will continue to do, that 'hearts and minds' couldn't be changed.

The problem, of course, is that the left controls education, Hollywood, popular culture and the media, so we are, in essence voices crying in the wilderness.  That is not to say that it can't ever be done, but it would be a big mistake for all of us with moral convictions to cave to the pressure collapsing our culture right now.

The liberals usually pushe the freedom and rights buttons.  Standards existed that allowed states to prevent the sale of birth controls, all abortions, couples living together outside of wedlock, different privacy laws for homosexuals, permitting discrimination in all areas of society for gays, and so forth.  The courts generally found such laws unconstitutional and today most Americans would agree with those decisions.  That Hollywood and the educational system led to or assisted in turning opinions around isn't at question.  But those opinions and those "freedoms" are now part of American society and culture.

Again interestingly at the same time as mentioned above, Americans and the legal system are clamping down on issues involving minors and others who are not capable of competent decisions.  So it's not all bad.

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Good.  There is some common ground here.  Same principles, different conclusions.

I like common ground even if arrived at by different highways.

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I happen to side with our Founders who stated overtly that when we remove moral constraints from our culture, that our Republic will fail.  Part of the genius of those who founded our country is that they understood the sin-nature of human beings and protected others against it (checks and balances, etc.).  They also understood that when morality and freedom make the turn into license, the system will fall.

That's where we are right now.

Falling.

Can't argue with a lot of that, but the Founders also provided for the rights of the individual and that was punctuated by ratification of the 14th Amendment.  Those rights amendments were intended to protect the rights of the minority as the majority can generally take care of itself.
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Offline GourmetDan

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #80 on: July 29, 2015, 06:11:32 pm »
You must admit that over the past few years the criminal penalties for sex crimes of all types has generally increased, and with some states significantly to where deeds snickered at a few years ago now carry life penalties.  We see far more media coverage of such activity and prosecutions of priests, teachers, parents and others are in the news almost daily.  Today you can read of an 18 year old boy facing 20 years for having sex with a 17 year old girl. 

In spite of all of the loosening of our traditionally moral fabric, this area is tightening up almost to a fault.

Failing to see that 'gay marriage' and hyper-sensitivity to heterosexuality are both assaults on traditional societal roles is to be blind to the obvious...


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #81 on: July 29, 2015, 07:09:12 pm »
Failing to see that 'gay marriage' and hyper-sensitivity to heterosexuality are both assaults on traditional societal roles is to be blind to the obvious...

Not sure what hyper-sensitivity to heterosexuality is, but I agree that most major rights decisions rendered by the courts or by law attack traditional societal roles.  We once required religious tests for office holders, slavery, rights only for freemen and landowners, denied women the vote, denied people the right to birth control, permitted very young girls to marry adults, denied all abortions at any stage, denied interracial couples the right to marry, and many other traditional societal roles.  Society changes and with it our culture.  We can embrace some and not others.  Reconstruction was not easy and many changes were forced onto the post-war society in the South.  The 14th Amendment by its very nature changed our social order and continues to do so.
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Offline GourmetDan

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #82 on: July 29, 2015, 10:59:28 pm »
Not sure what hyper-sensitivity to heterosexuality is, ...

What do you mean you're not sure what it is?  You just commented on it.

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...but I agree that most major rights decisions rendered by the courts or by law attack traditional societal roles.

Who are you agreeing with?  I said nothing about SCOTUS decisions.

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We once required religious tests for office holders, slavery, rights only for freemen and landowners, denied women the vote, denied people the right to birth control, permitted very young girls to marry adults, denied all abortions at any stage, denied interracial couples the right to marry, and many other traditional societal roles.  Society changes and with it our culture.  We can embrace some and not others.  Reconstruction was not easy and many changes were forced onto the post-war society in the South.  The 14th Amendment by its very nature changed our social order and continues to do so.

Reconstruction, Slavery and the 14th Amendment changed our social order?

Do you say that because you never experienced them and therefore assign responsibility to things you know nothing about?


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #83 on: July 30, 2015, 12:17:09 am »
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Not sure what hyper-sensitivity to heterosexuality is, ...


What do you mean you're not sure what it is?  You just commented on it.

I'm just not sure what you mean by it.


 
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...but I agree that most major rights decisions rendered by the courts or by law attack traditional societal roles.


Who are you agreeing with?  I said nothing about SCOTUS decisions.

I'm agreeing with what you said, that the gay marriage decision is a change (you said assault) to traditional societal roles, as many other such decisions were.


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We once required religious tests for office holders, slavery, rights only for freemen and landowners, denied women the vote, denied people the right to birth control, permitted very young girls to marry adults, denied all abortions at any stage, denied interracial couples the right to marry, and many other traditional societal roles.  Society changes and with it our culture.  We can embrace some and not others.  Reconstruction was not easy and many changes were forced onto the post-war society in the South.  The 14th Amendment by its very nature changed our social order and continues to do so.



Reconstruction, Slavery and the 14th Amendment changed our social order?

Of course they have, in numerous ways.

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Do you say that because you never experienced them and therefore assign responsibility to things you know nothing about?

And you do? 

I do personally know of the anti-miscegenation laws in the US prior to Loving v. Virginia and was denied a marriage license because of one of those states which had a certain "social order".



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Offline GourmetDan

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #84 on: July 30, 2015, 01:37:09 am »
I'm agreeing with what you said, that the gay marriage decision is a change (you said assault) to traditional societal roles, as many other such decisions were.

You misunderstand.  The assault on traditional societal roles is independent of the SCOTUS decision.  The decision was merely a reaction to that assault.

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And you do? 

I'm not invoking them, you are.

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I do personally know of the anti-miscegenation laws in the US prior to Loving v. Virginia and was denied a marriage license because of one of those states which had a certain "social order".

Females of such unions typically have a more difficult time because 'Dad' didn't love a woman who looks like them.  Believe it or not, that is an important issue to young women coming of age...


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #85 on: July 30, 2015, 04:23:38 am »
Fascinating emotional response to a rational post.

Perhaps you ought to read what was said without your reflexive defensiveness, and try again.


(I will address your "P.S.S." however....... since you've made my point.  The age of consent varies over time, and what it is now does not necessarily reflect what it will be in the future.  Ergo, you have just argued against your own argument, and verified mine).

My post was not emotional, it was sarcastic.

Your post, where you assumed that my "cheap shot" was aimed at you, did expose a streak of insecurity.

Why don't you ever respond to the substance of posts?
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #86 on: July 30, 2015, 11:31:30 am »
You misunderstand.  The assault on traditional societal roles is independent of the SCOTUS decision.  The decision was merely a reaction to that assault.

I'm not invoking them, you are.

Females of such unions typically have a more difficult time because 'Dad' didn't love a woman who looks like them.  Believe it or not, that is an important issue to young women coming of age...

Dan, the changes in our "traditional social order" come from many different sources not the least of which is the people.  The people have been instrumental in changing the social order over time.  When seen as necessary, the courts have assisted in this change.  You call it an assault, but some things needed an assault.  Brown v. The Board of Education, Griswold, Roe, Loving, and Lawrence are among those that led to huge changes in our social order.  Every one of those involved changing the social order of our society to provide someone with more freedom than they had.

As for interracial marriages, where do you get your information?  Do you favor reinstating miscegenation laws?

So I can better understand your position, are you in favor of a government that would turn back the clock to the 1950s with respect to those decisions?  Would that make for a better social order in your opinion?
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Offline musiclady

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #87 on: July 30, 2015, 01:00:45 pm »
My post was not emotional, it was sarcastic.

Your post, where you assumed that my "cheap shot" was aimed at you, did expose a streak of insecurity.

Why don't you ever respond to the substance of posts?

I do.

All the time.

You seem to be projecting your own insecurity and resulting condescending attitude onto me with your baseless 'sarcasm.'



At any rate, my post was serious, as has every comment I've made on this thread, and yours was defensive and emotional in response, filled with irrelevant (and wrongheaded) ad hominems, and it amused me because it was so............... pointless.   So since you can't seem to stay on topic, I'll let you have the last word.

It's a complete waste of time to respond to incendiary and false personal attacks, and I have much more pleasant things to do.

(Like go to the dentist)...

Edited to add: Back from my dental appointment.  You'll be happy to know that my teeth are fine!  ^-^
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 03:03:59 pm by musiclady »
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #88 on: July 30, 2015, 01:34:23 pm »
Dan, the changes in our "traditional social order" come from many different sources not the least of which is the people.

Really?  Oh my...

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The people have been instrumental in changing the social order over time.

Really?  Wow...

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When seen as necessary, the courts have assisted in this change.

"Seen as necessary" by whom?

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You call it an assault, but some things needed an assault.

And some things didn't.

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Brown v. The Board of Education, Griswold, Roe, Loving, and Lawrence are among those that led to huge changes in our social order.

Merely appealing to 'change' sounds like a campaign slogan...

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Every one of those involved changing the social order of our society to provide someone with more freedom than they had.

And some got less... even losing their lives.

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As for interracial marriages, where do you get your information?  Do you favor reinstating miscegenation laws?

Shouldn't you start a miscegenation thread?

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So I can better understand your position, are you in favor of a government that would turn back the clock to the 1950s with respect to those decisions?  Would that make for a better social order in your opinion?

Fallacy of equivocation noted...

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Online DCPatriot

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #89 on: July 30, 2015, 02:32:44 pm »
Really?  Oh my...

Really?  Wow...

"Seen as necessary" by whom?

And some things didn't.

Merely appealing to 'change' sounds like a campaign slogan...

And some got less... even losing their lives.

Shouldn't you start a miscegenation thread?

Fallacy of equivocation noted...


To break down ANYBODY's post by the sentence and responding in a sarcastic staccato fashion shows poorly on you.

To do it to a quality, thoughtful poster like MACVSOG68 magnifies that perception.


...just my opinion of course. 
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #90 on: July 30, 2015, 03:06:32 pm »

To break down ANYBODY's post by the sentence and responding in a sarcastic staccato fashion shows poorly on you.

To do it to a quality, thoughtful poster like MACVSOG68 magnifies that perception.


...just my opinion of course.

Thank you DC.  I suspect this thread is probably on life support anyway.   :beer:
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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #91 on: July 30, 2015, 03:09:33 pm »
Thank you DC.  I suspect this thread is probably on life support anyway.   :beer:

That's probably true, MAC.

But some posters are just too much, when they 'dig in'.     :laugh:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #92 on: July 30, 2015, 03:14:45 pm »

To break down ANYBODY's post by the sentence and responding in a sarcastic staccato fashion shows poorly on you.

To do it to a quality, thoughtful poster like MACVSOG68 magnifies that perception.

...just my opinion of course.

Yeah, I was showing the content of his 'thoughts' one by one... there wasn't anything of substance there and then it ended with the fallacy of equivocation.

If you think that's thoughtful, well I really appreciate you letting me know that it really is just your opinion...


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #93 on: July 30, 2015, 03:16:10 pm »
That's probably true, MAC.

But some posters are just too much, when they 'dig in'.     :laugh:

Implying that that street doesn't run both ways is rather humorous...   :silly:

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #94 on: July 30, 2015, 04:17:01 pm »
I do.

All the time.

You seem to be projecting your own insecurity and resulting condescending attitude onto me with your baseless 'sarcasm.'

That's a load of crap. You don't.

MAC asked you a simple question at least four time on this thread, that you never answered.

It began with this statement from you:

The problem here is with letting what many citizens 'accept' determine what is right and what is legal.

Let me preface the rest of my post by quoting the Constitution:

Amendment X -The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

While drafting the Constitution those "many citizens", A.K.A. "the people" retained the power to determine what is legal.

Whether you believe it or not, or whether you accept it or not, the majority of the people have accepted homosexuality and same-sex marriage. That ship has sailed.

So then, back to those four questions:

  • Who then if not the people, should determine what is right when it comes to "moral" issues among consenting adults?
  • If not the people, who should determine what is morally right among consenting adults?
  • Who will set these standards that the people shouldn't violate, and even more so, how are they to be enforced?
  • I've asked you a couple of times who should set those standards and who should enforce them?

If not "the people" as supported by the Supreme Law of the Land, who then should determine what is morally right between consenting adults?

Maybe you'll answer it this time.

I don't think so but HEY! The Jets won a Super Bowl once, so anything is possible.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 04:19:07 pm by Luis Gonzalez »
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Offline musiclady

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #95 on: July 30, 2015, 04:19:00 pm »
That's a load of crap. You don't.

MAC asked you a simple question at least four time on this thread, that you never answered.

It began with this statement from you:

The problem here is with letting what many citizens 'accept' determine what is right and what is legal.

Let me preface the rest of my post by quoting the Constitution:

Amendment X -The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

While drafting the Constitution those "many citizens", A.K.A. "the people" retained the power to determine what is legal.

Whether you believe it or not, or whether you accept it or not, the majority of the people have accepted homosexuality and same-sex marriage. That ship has sailed.

MAC asked you the same question four times on this thread. You never answered it directly:

  • Who then if not the people, should determine what is right when it comes to "moral" issues among consenting adults?
  • If not the people, who should determine what is morally right among consenting adults?
  • Who will set these standards that the people shouldn't violate, and even more so, how are they to be enforced?
  • I've asked you a couple of times who should set those standards and who should enforce them?

If not "the people" as supported by the Supreme Law of the Land, who then should determine what is morally right between consenting adults?

Maybe you'll answer it this time.

I don't think so but HEY! The Jets won a Super Bowl once, so anything is possible.

 :patriot:
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #96 on: July 30, 2015, 04:19:52 pm »
:patriot:

Yeah... that's what I thought.

Five times, no response.



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Offline musiclady

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #97 on: July 30, 2015, 04:42:47 pm »
Yeah... that's what I thought.

Five times, no response.

I gave you the last word, Luis.

You took it.   :seeya:
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #98 on: July 30, 2015, 04:58:06 pm »
Let me preface the rest of my post by quoting the Constitution:

Amendment X -The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

While drafting the Constitution those "many citizens", A.K.A. "the people" retained the power to determine what is legal.

Whether you believe it or not, or whether you accept it or not, the majority of the people have accepted homosexuality and same-sex marriage. That ship has sailed.

Good argument... but then you ruin it with a non-sequitur.

Your own argument says that the power to regulate 'gay marriage' belongs to the States and the people, which is what we had.  Some States and people voted to legalize 'gay marriage' while some States and people rejected it.  Just like the Constitution says.

The SCOTUS is not 'the States or the people' and had no constitutional power to force the States or the people to accept 'gay marriage' if they didn't want it.

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #99 on: July 30, 2015, 05:19:32 pm »
I gave you the last word, Luis.

You took it.   :seeya:

No you didn't.

Had you done that you wouldn't have responded, and you did.

What you DIDN'T do (again) is respond to five direct questions that made up the substance of the posts.

  • Who then if not the people, should determine what is right when it comes to "moral" issues among consenting adults?
  • If not the people, who should determine what is morally right among consenting adults?
  • Who will set these standards that the people shouldn't violate, and even more so, how are they to be enforced?
  • I've asked you a couple of times who should set those standards and who should enforce them?
  • If not "the people" as supported by the Supreme Law of the Land, who then should determine what is morally right between consenting adults?

I won't hold my breath.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx