Author Topic: The Big Gay Marriage Lie  (Read 10352 times)

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Offline EdinVA

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #50 on: July 29, 2015, 12:32:57 pm »
Once you decide that sex with children (who cannot give consent) is legal, then why not rape, which also entails sex without consent of one of the parties?  And it doesn't even have to be forcable; just add a couple of roofies and proceed.  How about sex between doctor and patient, judge and defendant, or teacher and student?  I don't know anywhere that sex involving a person in a position of responsibility is legal.   

This is the problem with overuse of the slippery slope fallacy.  It's a tactic used when direct attacks on an issue are failing.  The left uses it constantly.  "If we don't force Georgetown to provide contraceptives to women, soon the right will take all contraceptives away".  "If we try to regulate late-term birth abortions, soon abortions will be unavailable to women anywhere"...

And if we ban 3000 round magazines, the left will take away all guns....

Offline musiclady

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #51 on: July 29, 2015, 12:59:24 pm »
I'm not saying it's acceptable or unacceptable.  I'm relaying a fact.  Society deems homosexuality as a more acceptable "perversion" than it does pedophilia.  Which is why the comparison is a bad one, IMO, and a losing argument.

I don't think it's a losing argument, Carling.

Did anyone ever imagine after Roe v. Wade passed that the abortion industry would move so quickly to torturing and murdering children being born, ripping them apart and selling their organs for profit?

I think those who dismiss the pedophilia argument are not in full understanding of how evil the left is, and how persuasive they are because they control the language of the debate.

There are some here on a conservative website who say it can't happen, but I think that's not realistic.

All we have to do is look at how the left works, how they control education, popular culture, the media and it's not hard to project what their influence will be in the future.

Homosexual "marriage" was not on the radar of decent Americans a few decades ago, and the propaganda campaign has succeeded in convincing a large percentage of the population that it's "normal" for one man to have sex with another.

Pedophilia may not be next in line (polygamy and incest seem like they'll be next because they are involving consenting adults and the "who you love" crap can be easily argued to defend further perversion), but there is already movement to accept the unacceptable, and there is absolutely no reason to trust the left not to succeed in furthering the degradation of the culture.

It's part of their game plan.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Bigun

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #52 on: July 29, 2015, 01:06:48 pm »
I don't think it's a losing argument, Carling.

Did anyone ever imagine after Roe v. Wade passed that the abortion industry would move so quickly to torturing and murdering children being born, ripping them apart and selling their organs for profit?

I think those who dismiss the pedophilia argument are not in full understanding of how evil the left is, and how persuasive they are because they control the language of the debate.

There are some here on a conservative website who say it can't happen, but I think that's not realistic.

All we have to do is look at how the left works, how they control education, popular culture, the media and it's not hard to project what their influence will be in the future.

Homosexual "marriage" was not on the radar of decent Americans a few decades ago, and the propaganda campaign has succeeded in convincing a large percentage of the population that it's "normal" for one man to have sex with another.

Pedophilia may not be next in line (polygamy and incest seem like they'll be next because they are involving consenting adults and the "who you love" crap can be easily argued to defend further perversion), but there is already movement to accept the unacceptable, and there is absolutely no reason to trust the left not to succeed in furthering the degradation of the culture.

It's part of their game plan.

AND, I might mention, fits right in with their ultimate plan to have a single payer medical care so that WE get to pay for all the results of their "lifestyle choices"!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #53 on: July 29, 2015, 01:09:46 pm »
And if we ban 3000 round magazines, the left will take away all guns....

I'm sure there a lot more examples.  Dumping granny over the cliff.  All sorts of slippery slope charges come from the appropriations process debates.  Sorting through the ones with merit vs. the ones without is not an easy task.  The whole political process thrives on hyperbole. 
It's the Supreme Court nominations!

Offline musiclady

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #54 on: July 29, 2015, 01:10:38 pm »
People cannot decide that there is a right to molest a child, all the hysteria aside.

To compare pedophilia (rape) to consensual sex between two adults is to make the argument that legitimizing ANY sex between consenting adults that some other adults may not approve of, leads to the legitimization of pedophilia.

That is absurd.

Consensual sex requires that the people engaging in the act CONSENT to it. Children cannot give consent, because with the right to give consent to things, comes the responsibility, financial, legal, etc, for the possible consequences of the action that you're consenting to.

Cheap shot with the 'hysteria' garbage, Luis.

Every argument I ever give on the subject is based on both history and logic.  Nothing hysterical about it.

I'm reading a book called "The Death of the Grown-up" and it contains an interesting history of how teenagers took over American culture while adults abdicated it.  (It's a good read...... at least so far).  The germane part to this discussion is the chapter on teenagers and that before WWII, there really was no such thing.  There were adults, and there were children.  Those in their teens aspired to be adults.

My point is, that culturally definitions change, ages of consent definitely change, and that it can happen quickly.

How you define "children" is not necessarily how other cultures define it, nor even how other Americans define it.  You're dealing with a moving target, Luis, and seeming to claim it will hold still.

The 'age of consent' is arbitrary.  My mother was married at 17, and fully adult.  Earlier in history people married even younger.

It is not even remotely out of the realm of possibility that the left, pushing further their sexual 'revolution' will move the age of consent to younger ages, permitting the sexually perverse adults who are attracted to children to get the 'consent' of their victims legally (and many already do emotionally).

The bottom line is, that you can't be so sure what will be accepted in the future, and what changes will be made to stretch further the definition of what is 'normal.'

The left isn't stopping with homosexual "marriage."

The left never stops.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 01:11:36 pm by musiclady »
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #55 on: July 29, 2015, 01:14:13 pm »
AND, I might mention, fits right in with their ultimate plan to have a single payer medical care so that WE get to pay for all the results of their "lifestyle choices"!

That too!
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #56 on: July 29, 2015, 01:20:22 pm »
AND, I might mention, fits right in with their ultimate plan to have a single payer medical care so that WE get to pay for all the results of their "lifestyle choices"!

I agree with you on that, but it has nothing to do with the issue at hand.  And to be fair, the left has always been working toward a goal of single payer. Obamacare was designed to create so much chaos in the medical insurance area that the people would demand a government option.  Of course the government option would be the cheapest, so in time everyone would move to it, and away from the insurance industry.  Tie up a few loose ends like VA, Medicare, Medicaid, and you now have single payer.They've not kept it a secret. Obama said that even before he was elected.

Hopefully though you're not saying that gay marriage is leading to single payer medical are you? 
It's the Supreme Court nominations!

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #57 on: July 29, 2015, 01:21:25 pm »
Mac, with all due respect, I strongly disagree.
Unlike most on this site, I am still raising a 7 year old grandson and he does not have access to the internet but he sees these things going on in public and is starting to question it.
How our kids learn to deal with this stuff is going to determine what happens long after you and I are pushing up daisy's...

Yes, this is the problem.  The young kids grow up thinking that whatever is in public and on TV is 'normal'...

And so is a society destroyed... generation by generation... slowly but surely...

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Offline Bigun

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #58 on: July 29, 2015, 01:26:41 pm »
I agree with you on that, but it has nothing to do with the issue at hand.  And to be fair, the left has always been working toward a goal of single payer. Obamacare was designed to create so much chaos in the medical insurance area that the people would demand a government option.  Of course the government option would be the cheapest, so in time everyone would move to it, and away from the insurance industry.  Tie up a few loose ends like VA, Medicare, Medicaid, and you now have single payer.They've not kept it a secret. Obama said that even before he was elected.

Hopefully though you're not saying that gay marriage is leading to single payer medical are you?

Which came first? The chicken or the egg? They have been working on both things for a VERY long time Mac! Much longer than most folks realize in fact!

Quote
Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35
January 10, 1963

Current Communist Goals

EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

Thursday, January 10, 1963

 

Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.

At Mrs. Nordman's request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following "Current Communist Goals," which she identifies as an excerpt from "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen:

[From "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen]

CURRENT COMMUNIST GOALS

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

 
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline EdinVA

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #59 on: July 29, 2015, 01:27:40 pm »
I'm sure there a lot more examples.  Dumping granny over the cliff.  All sorts of slippery slope charges come from the appropriations process debates.  Sorting through the ones with merit vs. the ones without is not an easy task.  The whole political process thrives on hyperbole.

All I was trying to point out was that both dems and repubs do the same thing....
And the trouble is, they are right.

Online DCPatriot

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #60 on: July 29, 2015, 01:35:15 pm »
Cheap shot with the 'hysteria' garbage, Luis.

Every argument I ever give on the subject is based on both history and logic.  Nothing hysterical about it.

I'm reading a book called "The Death of the Grown-up" and it contains an interesting history of how teenagers took over American culture while adults abdicated it.  (It's a good read...... at least so far).  The germane part to this discussion is the chapter on teenagers and that before WWII, there really was no such thing.  There were adults, and there were children.  Those in their teens aspired to be adults.

My point is, that culturally definitions change, ages of consent definitely change, and that it can happen quickly.

How you define "children" is not necessarily how other cultures define it, nor even how other Americans define it.  You're dealing with a moving target, Luis, and seeming to claim it will hold still.

The 'age of consent' is arbitrary.  My mother was married at 17, and fully adult.  Earlier in history people married even younger.

It is not even remotely out of the realm of possibility that the left, pushing further their sexual 'revolution' will move the age of consent to younger ages, permitting the sexually perverse adults who are attracted to children to get the 'consent' of their victims legally (and many already do emotionally).

The bottom line is, that you can't be so sure what will be accepted in the future, and what changes will be made to stretch further the definition of what is 'normal.'

The left isn't stopping with homosexual "marriage."

The left never stops.

Excellent post and points made, ML. 
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline musiclady

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #61 on: July 29, 2015, 01:38:13 pm »
Which came first? The chicken or the egg? They have been working on both things for a VERY long time Mac! Much longer than most folks realize in fact!

My father was in the medical profession, and I can guarantee you that the left was working on a single payer health care system more than fifty years ago.

I was warned about the dangers of socialized medicine before I entered Jr. High!

The cultural rot was a parallel movement, beginning in earnest in the 1950's and getting us to where we are now.

Moral decay and the leftist political agenda go hand in hand. 

That's why it was so important for them to take over the schools.  They have inculcated generations of young Americans with their ideology......... so much so that even some who are overall conservative have been deeply influenced by it.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #62 on: July 29, 2015, 01:40:12 pm »
Excellent post and points made, ML.

Thank you, kind sir!  :beer:
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #63 on: July 29, 2015, 01:41:38 pm »
I don't think it's a losing argument, Carling.

Did anyone ever imagine after Roe v. Wade passed that the abortion industry would move so quickly to torturing and murdering children being born, ripping them apart and selling their organs for profit?

I think those who dismiss the pedophilia argument are not in full understanding of how evil the left is, and how persuasive they are because they control the language of the debate.

There are some here on a conservative website who say it can't happen, but I think that's not realistic.

All we have to do is look at how the left works, how they control education, popular culture, the media and it's not hard to project what their influence will be in the future.

Homosexual "marriage" was not on the radar of decent Americans a few decades ago, and the propaganda campaign has succeeded in convincing a large percentage of the population that it's "normal" for one man to have sex with another.

Pedophilia may not be next in line (polygamy and incest seem like they'll be next because they are involving consenting adults and the "who you love" crap can be easily argued to defend further perversion), but there is already movement to accept the unacceptable, and there is absolutely no reason to trust the left not to succeed in furthering the degradation of the culture.

It's part of their game plan.

Musiclady, you keep arguing or at least implying that somehow these cultural shifts must be curtailed.  You have said that just because the people want something they shouldn't have the last word.  I've asked you a couple of times who should set those standards and who should enforce them.  Even if I accept your premise that gay marriage will lead to legalized rape (which is what child sex is), which I don't, what is your idea for turning all this around?  You mentioned Hollywood, and I've mentioned all the negative things that have for years been going on around heterosexual relationships, but again, what do you propose?
It's the Supreme Court nominations!

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #64 on: July 29, 2015, 01:44:58 pm »
All I was trying to point out was that both dems and repubs do the same thing....
And the trouble is, they are right.

I agree both sides engage in the slippery slope tactics, mainly because they can't make a legitimate argument for the issue at hand, so to give them traction they say, "well okay, but if this happens, look at what will follow".  No they are not always right.  We all have to pick and choose which slippery slope argument we think has merit and which is little more than rhetoric.
It's the Supreme Court nominations!

Offline EdinVA

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #65 on: July 29, 2015, 01:45:57 pm »
Musiclady, you keep arguing or at least implying that somehow these cultural shifts must be curtailed.  You have said that just because the people want something they shouldn't have the last word.  I've asked you a couple of times who should set those standards and who should enforce them.  Even if I accept your premise that gay marriage will lead to legalized rape (which is what child sex is), which I don't, what is your idea for turning all this around?  You mentioned Hollywood, and I've mentioned all the negative things that have for years been going on around heterosexual relationships, but again, what do you propose?

Mac, your right, very tough question.
But is sounds as if you are advocating Mob Rule which I am not sure that is where we should be going.

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #66 on: July 29, 2015, 01:46:03 pm »
Yes, this is the problem.  The young kids grow up thinking that whatever is in public and on TV is 'normal'...

And so is a society destroyed... generation by generation... slowly but surely...

I am so glad my formative years were molded by Saturday morning cartoons and half hour shows where the good guys rode white horses and the villains all dressed in black.

OTOH, my generation is responsible for raising the parents of these dumb sons-a-b*tches.   :laugh:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #67 on: July 29, 2015, 01:46:52 pm »
Which came first? The chicken or the egg? They have been working on both things for a VERY long time Mac! Much longer than most folks realize in fact!

The left has been working on a lot of things.  But there is simply no linkage other than imagined between gay marriage and single payer health care.
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #68 on: July 29, 2015, 01:50:23 pm »
Mac, your right, very tough question.
But is sounds as if you are advocating Mob Rule which I am not sure that is where we should be going.

I absolutely do not subscribe to mob rule Ed.  But I also don't subscribe to overregulating people in issues of moral conduct where victims don't exist.  We are supposed to be a free people and this bad conduct has been going on long before anyone ever thought about gay marriage.  But my question continues to be how to curtail it and turn us back into a moral people.  Who sets those moral standards?
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #69 on: July 29, 2015, 01:58:26 pm »
Cheap shot with the 'hysteria' garbage, Luis.

Every argument I ever give on the subject is based on both history and logic.  Nothing hysterical about it.

I'm reading a book called "The Death of the Grown-up" and it contains an interesting history of how teenagers took over American culture while adults abdicated it.  (It's a good read...... at least so far).  The germane part to this discussion is the chapter on teenagers and that before WWII, there really was no such thing.  There were adults, and there were children.  Those in their teens aspired to be adults.

My point is, that culturally definitions change, ages of consent definitely change, and that it can happen quickly.

How you define "children" is not necessarily how other cultures define it, nor even how other Americans define it.  You're dealing with a moving target, Luis, and seeming to claim it will hold still.

The 'age of consent' is arbitrary.  My mother was married at 17, and fully adult.  Earlier in history people married even younger.

It is not even remotely out of the realm of possibility that the left, pushing further their sexual 'revolution' will move the age of consent to younger ages, permitting the sexually perverse adults who are attracted to children to get the 'consent' of their victims legally (and many already do emotionally).

The bottom line is, that you can't be so sure what will be accepted in the future, and what changes will be made to stretch further the definition of what is 'normal.'

The left isn't stopping with homosexual "marriage."

The left never stops.

So we're not debating here so much as you are lecturing and regaling us with your superior intellect and the immeasurable depth of your knowledge.

It is hysteria, and that's not a cheap shot, that's a conclusion based on observing the available data.

Acceptance of consensual sex will lead to legalized pedophilia indeed.

P.S. Maybe the hysteria comment wasn't aimed at you. It's not all about you, you know.

P.S.S.  Considering the fact that in the mid 19th century the age of consent in most States was 10 (7 in Delaware) and now that age is nearly uniformally 16-18, it seems that the "rise" of the left is consistent with a rise in the legal age of consent.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

bkepley

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #70 on: July 29, 2015, 02:11:15 pm »
The left never stops.

She's right about that.  It's one of Emmett Tyrrell's rules that "the left always goes too far" and I think it's true.  After all they can't be satisfied with the status quo or else they have no reason to be.

Offline musiclady

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #71 on: July 29, 2015, 02:36:38 pm »
So we're not debating here so much as you are lecturing and regaling us with your superior intellect and the immeasurable depth of your knowledge.

It is hysteria, and that's not a cheap shot, that's a conclusion based on observing the available data.

Acceptance of consensual sex will lead to legalized pedophilia indeed.

P.S. Maybe the hysteria comment wasn't aimed at you. It's not all about you, you know.

P.S.S.  Considering the fact that in the mid 19th century the age of consent in most States was 10 (7 in Delaware) and now that age is nearly uniformally 16-18, it seems that the "rise" of the left is consistent with a rise in the legal age of consent.

Fascinating emotional response to a rational post.

Perhaps you ought to read what was said without your reflexive defensiveness, and try again.


(I will address your "P.S.S." however....... since you've made my point.  The age of consent varies over time, and what it is now does not necessarily reflect what it will be in the future.  Ergo, you have just argued against your own argument, and verified mine).
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #72 on: July 29, 2015, 02:50:16 pm »
Musiclady, you keep arguing or at least implying that somehow these cultural shifts must be curtailed.  You have said that just because the people want something they shouldn't have the last word.  I've asked you a couple of times who should set those standards and who should enforce them.  Even if I accept your premise that gay marriage will lead to legalized rape (which is what child sex is), which I don't, what is your idea for turning all this around?  You mentioned Hollywood, and I've mentioned all the negative things that have for years been going on around heterosexual relationships, but again, what do you propose?

I actually have never said that homosexual marriage will lead to legalized rape.  I have said that removing the restriction on marriage other than that of a man and a woman, and the arguments used to do that, will lead to further abnormalities being accepted as 'normal.'  There is a significant distinction in those two statements.

I have also not argued that 'the people' are not setting the standard.  They are.  But I have stated that "the people" have been wrong about a lot of things in our history, and using what "the people" want as an argument to what is right is not a viable argument.

What I 'propose' is similar to what I think should be done regarding to combat the left's success in winning the legal debate on abortion.  We obviously cannot change the law overnight (or, in 40 years), but we can work to change hearts and minds about the dangers of callously killing the unborn.

(Now before anyone jumps in and claims I'm saying killing babies and men having sex with each other is the same thing, I'm not.  I'm discussing the response to those and making the parallel there).

What can I personally do?  I can make rational arguments on boards such as this as to why destruction of the family is bad for the country.  (Again, working to improve heterosexual marriages is a part of that process).  I can write to members of Congress with the same rational arguments, and I can pray for the country, that it recognizes the moral decadence within.

The left has understood for decades that moral decadence was their best way to defeat the country.  More effective that assaulting us from outside, if we destroy ourselves from within we take on the character of a marshmallow.

Their success on all fronts is what led the majority of Americans to elect and reelect prom king Barack Obama.

He is the culmination of their efforts to destroy us, and he is doing very well to finish the job they began a century ago.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 02:52:35 pm by musiclady »
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #73 on: July 29, 2015, 03:26:18 pm »
She's right about that.  It's one of Emmett Tyrrell's rules that "the left always goes too far" and I think it's true.  After all they can't be satisfied with the status quo or else they have no reason to be.

We agree on that.  It's the basic definition of progressivism or liberalism depending on who's labeling.  The basis of conservatism is not to stop progress (however one defines that), but to take it slow and with a strong view to the unforeseen problems in the future.  It puts conservatives in a negative light by being perceived as the ideology of "no".  But that's the burden the GOP and its conservatives bear honorably most of the time.
It's the Supreme Court nominations!

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #74 on: July 29, 2015, 03:57:41 pm »
I actually have never said that homosexual marriage will lead to legalized rape.  I have said that removing the restriction on marriage other than that of a man and a woman, and the arguments used to do that, will lead to further abnormalities being accepted as 'normal.'  There is a significant distinction in those two statements.

Sex with a minor is rape, and is considered that in almost every jurisdiction.  You did say the gay marriage will lead to pedophilia, which is sex with minors legally incapable of giving consent.  Statutory rape is rape nonetheless if the victim cannot give consent.

Quote
I have also not argued that 'the people' are not setting the standard.  They are.  But I have stated that "the people" have been wrong about a lot of things in our history, and using what "the people" want as an argument to what is right is not a viable argument.

What I 'propose' is similar to what I think should be done regarding to combat the left's success in winning the legal debate on abortion.  We obviously cannot change the law overnight (or, in 40 years), but we can work to change hearts and minds about the dangers of callously killing the unborn.

I understood your earlier post as expressing a wish to see some entity setting standards involving such things as gay marriage and other such issues regardless of what the people determine is in their best interests or "desires".  If you are just calling for more education to change hearts and minds, I've no problem with that at all.  I've seen over the years what can happen when a government entity decides to step into the private lives of adults, and it ain't pretty!  And I think already a majority of Americans show up on polling as favoring some limitations on abortion.  That's a good thing.

Quote
(Now before anyone jumps in and claims I'm saying killing babies and men having sex with each other is the same thing, I'm not.  I'm discussing the response to those and making the parallel there).

Good, because some would make that linkage.

Quote
What can I personally do?  I can make rational arguments on boards such as this as to why destruction of the family is bad for the country.  (Again, working to improve heterosexual marriages is a part of that process).  I can write to members of Congress with the same rational arguments, and I can pray for the country, that it recognizes the moral decadence within.

The left has understood for decades that moral decadence was their best way to defeat the country.  More effective that assaulting us from outside, if we destroy ourselves from within we take on the character of a marshmallow.

Their success on all fronts is what led the majority of Americans to elect and reelect prom king Barack Obama.

He is the culmination of their efforts to destroy us, and he is doing very well to finish the job they began a century ago.

Absolutely nothing I disagree with.  I despise Obama and the left's overall agenda.  One roadblock to these moral dilemmas is the 14th Amendment.  People have a constitutional right to both due process and equal protection of the laws.  That we may feel differently about some issues, as conservatives we respect our institutions, and the USSC is one of those institutions.  I don't always agree with everything the president does or says, nor Congress or the SCOTUS.  But these are our institutions created by "We The People".
It's the Supreme Court nominations!