Author Topic: The Big Gay Marriage Lie  (Read 10353 times)

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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2015, 06:20:17 pm »
Your argument is that preceding errors justify continuing the trend of normalizing perversion?  How are you going to stop pedophile and bestial marriage?  Homosexuality has always been malignant to society.  No need to wait for the 'future' to find that out...

Homosexuality is sexual perversion just as pedophilia is sexual peversion.

I suppose you could also say that sexual acts other than intercourse between consenting heterosexuals is also perversion, yet a vast majority engage in them.

I have little concern for the acts between two consenting adults, but I do have great concern over acts that have victims.  There are far more girls who are molested by males and even males who are married, yet that doesn't seem to be an issue for those whose obsession is with stopping gay marriage.  So if homosexuality is related to pedophilia, then by definition so must heterosexuality.  Pedophilia requires victims and that is a difference, not just a distinction.
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Online GourmetDan

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2015, 06:30:34 pm »
I suppose you could also say that sexual acts other than intercourse between consenting heterosexuals is also perversion, yet a vast majority engage in them.

Didn't your Mama ever say, "If everybody else jumped off a bridge would you do it too?"

Quote
I have little concern for the acts between two consenting adults, but I do have great concern over acts that have victims.  There are far more girls who are molested by males and even males who are married, yet that doesn't seem to be an issue for those whose obsession is with stopping gay marriage.  So if homosexuality is related to pedophilia, then by definition so must heterosexuality.  Pedophilia requires victims and that is a difference, not just a distinction.

If you really "have great concern over acts that have victims", then you certainly should not support homosexuality.  Victims abound in the homosexual lifestyle.

And again with the 'preceding errors justify continuing the trend of normalizing perversion' argument...

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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2015, 06:53:14 pm »
Didn't your Mama ever say, "If everybody else jumped off a bridge would you do it too?"

If you really "have great concern over acts that have victims", then you certainly should not support homosexuality.  Victims abound in the homosexual lifestyle.

And again with the 'preceding errors justify continuing the trend of normalizing perversion' argument...

 :facepalm2:
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Online GourmetDan

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2015, 06:55:48 pm »
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

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Offline Carling

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2015, 07:22:07 pm »
Quote
Homosexuality is sexual perversion just as pedophilia is sexual peversion.
l
Anal sex between a heterosexual couple is also a sexual perversion.

Group sex is a a sexual perversion.

The fact is that many citizens have accepted homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle.

Very few people consider pedophilia to be acceptable, so that's an argument best-made on a board with dumber posts than this one.

You seem to be a very binary thinker.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 07:23:13 pm by Carling »
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2015, 07:26:45 pm »
You seem to be a very binary thinker.

That's one digit too many.
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Offline musiclady

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2015, 08:54:04 pm »
l
Anal sex between a heterosexual couple is also a sexual perversion.

Group sex is a a sexual perversion.

The fact is that many citizens have accepted homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle.
Very few people consider pedophilia to be acceptable, so that's an argument best-made on a board with dumber posts than this one.

You seem to be a very binary thinker.

The problem here is with letting what many citizens 'accept' determine what is right and what is legal.

In Muslim countries many citizens already 'accept' pedophilia.

There is no logical reason, considering what the left has accomplished in the past few decades to dull our senses toward homosexuality, that it will not also succeed in doing the same thing with pedophilia.

It may take a bit longer, but there is no reason to believe that it won't happen.

My point is that we cannot let what citizens 'accept' determine what is right.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

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Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2015, 09:00:31 pm »
The problem here is with letting what many citizens 'accept' determine what is right and what is legal.

In Muslim countries many citizens already 'accept' pedophilia.

There is no logical reason, considering what the left has accomplished in the past few decades to dull our senses toward homosexuality, that it will not also succeed in doing the same thing with pedophilia.

It may take a bit longer, but there is no reason to believe that it won't happen.

My point is that we cannot let what citizens 'accept' determine what is right.

Who then if not the people, should determine what is right when it comes to "moral" issues among consenting adults? 
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Offline EdinVA

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2015, 09:12:26 pm »
Who then if not the people, should determine what is right when it comes to "moral" issues among consenting adults?

What consenting adults do behind closed doors is none of my business, whether I approve or not.
I think the real issue becomes where is the line between forcing me to accept "unacceptable" behavior in public and the impact that has on our kids.
We are being pushed into a situation where you have to explain this to a youngster and in that explanation, you have to either label it as bad or good behavior, and I am certainly not going to say it is ok.

Online GourmetDan

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2015, 09:23:53 pm »
You seem to be a very binary thinker.

That's one digit too many.

Only because I must consider the critical-thinking skills of the message's intended recipient(s)...

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

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Offline musiclady

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2015, 09:24:05 pm »
Who then if not the people, should determine what is right when it comes to "moral" issues among consenting adults?

Let me turn that around on you, MAC.

What will you think if/when the people decide that pedophilia is just a matter of 'who you love?'  (Actually, that argument is already being used to defend those who 'love' children).

Will you support it?  Or do you believe there are standards that the whims of the people shouldn't violate?

Are there any?  Or do 'the people' get whatever they want?
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2015, 10:11:38 pm »
What consenting adults do behind closed doors is none of my business, whether I approve or not.
I think the real issue becomes where is the line between forcing me to accept "unacceptable" behavior in public and the impact that has on our kids.
We are being pushed into a situation where you have to explain this to a youngster and in that explanation, you have to either label it as bad or good behavior, and I am certainly not going to say it is ok.

I don't think that's a problem at all in terms of what parents tell their children.  Given the propensity of children to access a lot of bad stuff on the internet and sexting though, I'd suggest parents start with that at least along with if not before telling them about the evils of gay marriages.  But that's just me.  Anyway, I'm not being forced to accept anything regarding the moral behavior of anyone. 
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Offline EdinVA

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2015, 10:21:35 pm »
I don't think that's a problem at all in terms of what parents tell their children.  Given the propensity of children to access a lot of bad stuff on the internet and sexting though, I'd suggest parents start with that at least along with if not before telling them about the evils of gay marriages.  But that's just me.  Anyway, I'm not being forced to accept anything regarding the moral behavior of anyone.

Mac, with all due respect, I strongly disagree.
Unlike most on this site, I am still raising a 7 year old grandson and he does not have access to the internet but he sees these things going on in public and is starting to question it.
How our kids learn to deal with this stuff is going to determine what happens long after you and I are pushing up daisy's...

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2015, 10:21:47 pm »
Let me turn that around on you, MAC.

What will you think if/when the people decide that pedophilia is just a matter of 'who you love?'  (Actually, that argument is already being used to defend those who 'love' children).

Will you support it?  Or do you believe there are standards that the whims of the people shouldn't violate?

Are there any?  Or do 'the people' get whatever they want?

Problem is you've laid out a straw man with respect to pedophilia.  I've never advanced the argument that pedophilia or any other kinky thing that involves victims is okay.  You've laid a direct line from gay marriage to pedophilia.  Yet, society and the laws have accepted homosexuality many years before gay marriage.  They've additionally accepted many other behaviors the moralists day they despise like people living together, growing divorce rates, privacy in one's home, birth control, abortion.  Yet none of those have in any way led to a legalization of either pedophilia or bestiality.

I will always believe that a state has the power and the obligation to prevent behaviors that involve victims.  But with respect to moral issues between consenting adults, yes, we the people should generally be left alone. 

But back to my question to you.  If not the people, who should determine what is morally right among consenting adults?
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #39 on: July 28, 2015, 10:28:10 pm »
Mac, with all due respect, I strongly disagree.
Unlike most on this site, I am still raising a 7 year old grandson and he does not have access to the internet but he sees these things going on in public and is starting to question it.
How our kids learn to deal with this stuff is going to determine what happens long after you and I are pushing up daisy's...

I also have two grandchildren whom I worry about continually.  If your grandson sees something in public that you question, at least he has you to help him develop his moral compass.  That's a good thing.  When he's 10, 12, 14 though you will have far less influence, and he will be bombarded with a lot of pretty bad stuff.  I personally would find it easier to tell him that all this stuff he finds on the internet and in his emailing with his friends needs to be looked at with caution.  If you feel gay marriage is the greatest threat to him, by all means let him know that.  I don't. 

So we agree to disagree.
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Offline musiclady

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #40 on: July 28, 2015, 10:38:11 pm »
Problem is you've laid out a straw man with respect to pedophilia.  I've never advanced the argument that pedophilia or any other kinky thing that involves victims is okay.  You've laid a direct line from gay marriage to pedophilia.  Yet, society and the laws have accepted homosexuality many years before gay marriage.  They've additionally accepted many other behaviors the moralists day they despise like people living together, growing divorce rates, privacy in one's home, birth control, abortion.  Yet none of those have in any way led to a legalization of either pedophilia or bestiality.

I will always believe that a state has the power and the obligation to prevent behaviors that involve victims.  But with respect to moral issues between consenting adults, yes, we the people should generally be left alone. 

But back to my question to you.  If not the people, who should determine what is morally right among consenting adults?

It's not any sort of 'straw man'.... and I didn't accuse you of supporting pedophilia.   I just implied that you are inconsistent.

If and when pedophilia becomes socially acceptable, you will NOT support it.

Ergo your standard of what 'the people' want falls flat on its proverbial face.


As to your question......... I believe in absolute truth, and standards that go beyond what 'the people' happen to feel like on any given day.

"The people" supported owning other people, and supported keeping women from being able to vote.  Our history is rife with examples of how wrong "the people" can be.

In this case, public opinion, forced by years of leftist propaganda, has given in to saying in public that homosexual marriage is OK.

That doesn't make it right, any more than it made slavery right.  Public opinion can be very, very wrong.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Carling

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #41 on: July 28, 2015, 10:42:21 pm »
The problem here is with letting what many citizens 'accept' determine what is right and what is legal.

In Muslim countries many citizens already 'accept' pedophilia.

There is no logical reason, considering what the left has accomplished in the past few decades to dull our senses toward homosexuality, that it will not also succeed in doing the same thing with pedophilia.

It may take a bit longer, but there is no reason to believe that it won't happen.

My point is that we cannot let what citizens 'accept' determine what is right.

I'm not saying it's acceptable or unacceptable.  I'm relaying a fact.  Society deems homosexuality as a more acceptable "perversion" than it does pedophilia.  Which is why the comparison is a bad one, IMO, and a losing argument.
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Offline EdinVA

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #42 on: July 28, 2015, 10:42:49 pm »
I also have two grandchildren whom I worry about continually.  If your grandson sees something in public that you question, at least he has you to help him develop his moral compass.  That's a good thing.  When he's 10, 12, 14 though you will have far less influence, and he will be bombarded with a lot of pretty bad stuff.  I personally would find it easier to tell him that all this stuff he finds on the internet and in his emailing with his friends needs to be looked at with caution.  If you feel gay marriage is the greatest threat to him, by all means let him know that.  I don't. 

So we agree to disagree.

Hummm, the fever went away I guess....  :tongue2:

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #43 on: July 28, 2015, 11:02:49 pm »
It's not any sort of 'straw man'.... and I didn't accuse you of supporting pedophilia.   I just implied that you are inconsistent.

If and when pedophilia becomes socially acceptable, you will NOT support it.

Ergo your standard of what 'the people' want falls flat on its proverbial face.

Since I have always held and said that moral issues between consenting adults is not something I believe should be regulated, but that when a victim is involved as in pedophilia it should, I'm not sure why it falls flat on anything.  Our rights guaranteed by the Constitution and its amendments do not protect a right to endanger or harm others.


Quote
As to your question......... I believe in absolute truth, and standards that go beyond what 'the people' happen to feel like on any given day.

"The people" supported owning other people, and supported keeping women from being able to vote.  Our history is rife with examples of how wrong "the people" can be.

In this case, public opinion, forced by years of leftist propaganda, has given in to saying in public that homosexual marriage is OK.

That doesn't make it right, any more than it made slavery right.  Public opinion can be very, very wrong.

Slavery involved owning other people.  Slaves were not consenting adults.  The rights of women who could not vote were being violated, and both of those issues were resolved through constitutional amendments.  I'm missing the analogies.

Public opinion has changed, not been forced in the area of gay marriage, any more than it has in the changes in heterosexual marriage, divorce, adultery and the other issues involving the opposite sexes.

I respect your right to the opinion that what the people want with regard to moral issues shouldn't be the guiding factor, but I still want to know who is to decide if not the people?  Who will set these standards that the people shouldn't violate, and even more so, how are they to be enforced? 
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #44 on: July 28, 2015, 11:03:27 pm »
Hummm, the fever went away I guess....  :tongue2:

 :laugh:
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Online Fishrrman

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #45 on: July 29, 2015, 12:24:39 am »
Luis wrote:
[[ That "we as a society" that you spoke of includes a significant number of people that do not agree with you on any point that you made. They (right or wrong as "they" may be) support the idea that bakeries should be forced to bake cakes, that it should be proselytized in schools, that churches should have their tax exempt status taken from them, and that newspapers should be free to NOT publish something that they don't want to publish. ]]

Our nation has become so divided -- and is continuing to further divide -- that reconciliation between the opposing sides is no longer possible.

I would prefer to no longer live in such a nation that is moving in the direction that this one is. I sense that many many more Americans share similar sentiments.

Yet it will not be a matter of leaving the land in which we live and love for somewhere else.

We are approaching another "When in the course of human events...." moment, where one side must stand and face off against the other.

You'll probably reply that that can't happen here again.

My response will be that it -must- again happen here, or else the America of our memory will soon pass into history, replaced by another nation that fifty years ago almost no one would have thought possible... by a system of despotic rule against which millions of our forebears fought and died opposing.

Luis closed:
[[ Society at large, and laws in general, is a construct of individuals banding together in order to provide for mutual defense of the group's lives and property. ]]

Yes.
And perhaps it will soon be time for such a "construct of individuals" to band together once again, in "mutual defense" of the traditional American nation...

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #46 on: July 29, 2015, 02:57:43 am »
Let me turn that around on you, MAC.

What will you think if/when the people decide that pedophilia is just a matter of 'who you love?'  (Actually, that argument is already being used to defend those who 'love' children).

Will you support it?  Or do you believe there are standards that the whims of the people shouldn't violate?

Are there any?  Or do 'the people' get whatever they want?

People cannot decide that there is a right to molest a child, all the hysteria aside.

To compare pedophilia (rape) to consensual sex between two adults is to make the argument that legitimizing ANY sex between consenting adults that some other adults may not approve of, leads to the legitimization of pedophilia.

That is absurd.

Consensual sex requires that the people engaging in the act CONSENT to it. Children cannot give consent, because with the right to give consent to things, comes the responsibility, financial, legal, etc, for the possible consequences of the action that you're consenting to.

"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #47 on: July 29, 2015, 02:59:13 am »

I would prefer to no longer live in such a nation that is moving in the direction that this one is. I sense that many many more Americans share similar sentiments.

I left mine.

You're free to leave.
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Offline Carling

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #48 on: July 29, 2015, 03:41:53 am »
I left mine.

You're free to leave.

Saudi Arabia or Iran seems to be a possible destination for some of these posters and their social issue, line in the sand mandates.

I'm part of a more enlightened generation, where I believe that ultimately a higher power will or will not judge people based on their sexual activities.

It's really none of my business, until it becomes children or other adults who haven't given consent being abused sexually.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 03:43:43 am by Carling »
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: The Big Gay Marriage Lie
« Reply #49 on: July 29, 2015, 12:26:24 pm »
People cannot decide that there is a right to molest a child, all the hysteria aside.

To compare pedophilia (rape) to consensual sex between two adults is to make the argument that legitimizing ANY sex between consenting adults that some other adults may not approve of, leads to the legitimization of pedophilia.

That is absurd.

Consensual sex requires that the people engaging in the act CONSENT to it. Children cannot give consent, because with the right to give consent to things, comes the responsibility, financial, legal, etc, for the possible consequences of the action that you're consenting to.

Once you decide that sex with children (who cannot give consent) is legal, then why not rape, which also entails sex without consent of one of the parties?  And it doesn't even have to be forcable; just add a couple of roofies and proceed.  How about sex between doctor and patient, judge and defendant, or teacher and student?  I don't know anywhere that sex involving a person in a position of responsibility is legal.   

This is the problem with overuse of the slippery slope fallacy.  It's a tactic used when direct attacks on an issue are failing.  The left uses it constantly.  "If we don't force Georgetown to provide contraceptives to women, soon the right will take all contraceptives away".  "If we try to regulate late-term birth abortions, soon abortions will be unavailable to women anywhere"...
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