Judge to Bakers: No Free Speech For You

[famousdayandyear]

Judge To Bakers: No Free Speech For You

http://thefederalist.com/2015/07/06/judge-to-bakers-no-free-speech-for-you/

[Puss-N-Boots]

They must appeal this.

[famousdayandyear]

Agree, Puss.

Too bad the courts are as corrupt as the regime.

[Fishrrman]

famousdayandyear wrote above:
[[ Too bad the courts are as corrupt as the regime. ]]

If I'm not mistaken, it was not a "court" that imposed a gag order on the Oregon couple, but a state administrator.
This should be directly challenged under the First Amendment.

As I've said in other threads, though....
Aaron and Melissa Klein should pack their bags, load up the car, and drive OUT OF Oregon as fast as they can go.
They should leave an example of one of "the new slavery" states, and seek a "traditional free state" to the east where they will still have a chance at a livelihood and freedom.

Of course it's admirable to "stand and fight" for your principles and beliefs. But even the Puritans knew when it was time to go.

How long until we have a new "underground railroad" on which those of traditional values must ride to escape the new slavery?

[famousdayandyear]

Fishrrman

No argument from me.  The fine is outrageous; if it were me, I would leave, as you say, post haste.

My comment was responding to Puss's suggestion that they "appeal"; I assumed this meant an appeal to a court.  Perhaps, misunderstanding on my part.

[Puss-N-Boots]

I think I'm the one who misunderstood... I thought a court issued the fine.

They need to protest this in every way possible, then leave Oregon.  It's beautiful, but completely wacky.

[truth_seeker]

Try advertising "No bleep allowed" or "Handicapped not allowed" or "Catholics not allowed" or "No Asians allowed"  or "No Indians permitted inside", and see if a judge or administrator will do anything

Try that as any kind of business or professional service, like restaurant, doctor, pet boarder service, auto dealer, etc. What makes a bakery different?

Even Christian owned/operated businesses like Chick Filet, In N Out Burgers and Hobby Lobby no better.

Apparently their followers don't grasp even the simplest things, however.

[Bigun]

Fishrrman

No argument from me.  The fine is outrageous; if it were me, I would leave, as you say, post haste.

My comment was responding to Puss's suggestion that they "appeal"; I assumed this meant an appeal to a court.  Perhaps, misunderstanding on my part.

If it were me my lawyer would have already filed suit in federal court naming every agency and person in the state of Oregon who had any part in this travesty as co-defendants.

[Bigun]

Also found this:

Its going to take more than a gag order from a state bureaucrat to shut up two Christian bakers under assault for refusing to make a wedding cake for a lesbian couple in Oregon.

As reported by Bizpac Review on Saturday, Aaron and Melissa Klein were not only hit with a $135,000 fine for refusing to bake the cake, but they were also ordered by Oregon Labor Commissioner Brad Avakian to stop speaking out about the case.

The Kleins, owners of Sweet Cakes by Melissa, told Fox News Todd Starnes they have no intention of obeying what they see as a clear violation of their First Amendment rights.

I dont really care, Aaron Klein told Starnes. This man has no power over me. He seems to think he can tell me to be quiet. That doesnt sit well with me and I refuse to comply.

The Daily Signal reported that the cease-and-desist order cited specific comments the couple had made in an interview with the Christian Broadcasting Network in September, claiming that their explanation of their religious beliefs violated Oregons anti-discrimination law.

By citing their previous comments as an act of discrimination against homosexuals, the order essentially prohibits the couple from making similar statements about their intention to hold fast to their religious convictions.

If these personal statements of religious belief and willingness to defend themselves against government persecution can be construed as showing discrimination, then pretty much almost everything the Kleins could say about their case could be construed by Oregon as showing discrimination, wrote Hans Von Spakovsky at the Signal.

However, the order doesn't seem to worry the Kleins, who believe the First Amendment still means something in America.

For us to not be able to speak about it thats our freedom of speech, Melissa Klein said. All Americans should be free to live and work by their faith and speak their mind.

She sounds like she means it, gag order or no gag order.

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2015/07/07/we-refuse-to-comply-christian-bakers-wont-be-bullied-by-gag-order-221817

[EdinVA]

Try advertising "No bleep allowed" or "Handicapped not allowed" or "Catholics not allowed" or "No Asians allowed"  or "No Indians permitted inside", and see if a judge or administrator will do anything

Try that as any kind of business or professional service, like restaurant, doctor, pet boarder service, auto dealer, etc. What makes a bakery different?

Even Christian owned/operated businesses like Chick Filet, In N Out Burgers and Hobby Lobby no better.

Apparently their followers don't grasp even the simplest things, however.

A bakery is different because of the depth of the relationship between the business and the clients.  The business must know what cake topping goes on for example which probably is what ignites this issue.  If you go to most any other business to buy services/products you would likely not have the same conversations so the situation wold not arise.

[truth_seeker]

A bakery is different because of the depth of the relationship between the business and the clients.  The business must know what cake topping goes on for example which probably is what ignites this issue.  If you go to most any other business to buy services/products you would likely not have the same conversations so the situation wold not arise.

A baker has a more deep relationship with the client, than a doctor, lawyer etc.????

I live on a different planet than you do apparently.

[Luis Gonzalez]

A bakery is different because of the depth of the relationship between the business and the clients.  The business must know what cake topping goes on for example which probably is what ignites this issue.  If you go to most any other business to buy services/products you would likely not have the same conversations so the situation wold not arise.

The bakery owners are fighting Oregon State laws and business regulations that prohibit discrimination in public accommodations and services based on sexual orientation. Not for-profit religious organizations are exempted from that law. The bakery is not a not for-profit religious organization.

In their favor they have the SCOTUS Hobby Lobby ruling which gave corporations owned by religious individuals protection under the First Alemdment. If this case gets to the SCOTUS they stand a 50/50 chance of winning.

Now, there is no gag order imposed on the owners of the bakery. If there was, they would already be in jail.

What they can't do, under State law is speak in behalf of their business and announce that the will continue to break/defy State law and not bake cakes for homosexual weddings. They will lose their business license for that and maybe even be fined an indeterminate amount of money as the owners of the business violating that law.

As individuals, they are free to speak out, write OpEds, put up billboards and hold rallies speaking of their beliefs on SSM.

Rights are individual in nature.

Businesses are a licensed and regulated activity.

[EdinVA]

I live on a different planet than you do apparently.

Often had the same thought... :)

[Fishrrman]

A sign that should appear in the front window of bakeries owned by folks of similar persuasion:

"Under the law, we must bake wedding cakes for all who order them.
We will cheerfully bake your wedding cake.
We also donate all revenue earned from our wedding cake business to The Catholic Church and other organizations that promote traditional man-woman marriage.
Thank you for supporting these organizations by ordering your cake from us, and be assured that the donation for your cake will be made in your name."

[Luis Gonzalez]

A sign that should appear in the front window of bakeries owned by folks of similar persuasion:

"Under the law, we must bake wedding cakes for all who order them.
We will cheerfully bake your wedding cake.
We also donate all revenue earned from our wedding cake business to The Catholic Church and other organizations that promote traditional man-woman marriage.
Thank you for supporting these organizations by ordering your cake from us, and be assured that the donation for your cake will be made in your name."

Great idea.

[EdinVA]

A baker has a more deep relationship with the client, than a doctor, lawyer etc.????

If a doctor or lawyer does not want to deal with gays, then they just refer the person to an "expert" so how do we know the same issues does not exist?