Obama announces opening of US Embassy in Cuba

[Luis Gonzalez]

You didn't answer my question.

I absolutely did.

Now, if you ask me what I THINK about Russia, I may respond to that.

[Dexter]

I absolutely did.

Now, if you ask me what I THINK about Russia, I may respond to that.

You know exactly what I meant so I feel no need to reiterate. Feel free to answer the question I already asked if you would like to have a conversation.

[Luis Gonzalez]

You know exactly what I meant so I feel no need to reiterate. Feel free to answer the question I already asked if you would like to have a conversation.

Actually, no.

I take the difference between the two very seriously.

I get to make the choice to draw a distinction between thinking/reasoning and emoting.

It's OK if you don't, but that's my choice.

I took the time to list the private wealth growth in what once were countries that, because of their Communist government, did not allow any level of private wealth to exist.

So, I didn't "feel" that Vietnam and China weren't Communist, I gave a response and backed up my reasoning with the data that I based my opinion/response on.

Then you asked me how I felt about Russia.

[Lando Lincoln]

As far as I can see, there are no strings attached.  None.  What the hell is that?  I'll bet Obama will be driving around in a classic Cadillac with Michelle after his Presidency.

[truth_seeker]

Other than the fact that they haven't stuck the US with massive bad debt like they did the rest of the world?

That is a good benefit, for us.

Have their been any other benefits for the US, or for Cubans, of the embargo and diplomatic distance?

[Luis Gonzalez]

That is a good benefit, for us.

Have their been any other benefits for the US, or for Cubans, of the embargo and diplomatic distance?

I know this is going to sound strange, coming from me and all, but why should US policy be crafted to benefit anyone other than Americans?

Just so you understand, there is no embargo. There's been no embargo for quite some time.

We are, and have been for quite some time, one of Cuba's largest trading partners, but they must pay cash.

The "establishing relations" meme is simply a puff of smoke hiding the true intent of the people behind this move to open embassies and crap like that. Their true intent is to have sales to Cuba guaranteed by the Export-Import Bank, and ultimately, the US taxpayer as guarantors to Cuba's debt.

Cuba isn't Communist. Cuba is a plantation, and so long as there are no direct business and trade abilities between private citizens of the two countries, there will be no benefits for Cubans.

US firms however, will be able to negotiate with the Cuban government for labor for their hotels and manufacturing facilities in Cuba. The way that works is that the Cuban government will guarantee the foreign firm X number of workers for $X, with the monies going to the Cuban government who will then pay those workers 7-10% of the $X that the foreign firms contracted them for.

I think what we're going to do with this is cement in place the position of Cuban workers as chattel to be rented by the Cuban government to foreign firms.   

[truth_seeker]

Their true intent is to have sales to Cuba guaranteed by the Export-Import Bank, and ultimately, the US taxpayer as guarantors to Cuba's debt.

Cuba isn't Communist. Cuba is a plantation, and so long as there are no direct business and trade abilities between private citizens of the two countries, there will be no benefits for Cubans.

US firms however, will be able to negotiate with the Cuban government for labor for their hotels and manufacturing facilities in Cuba. The way that works is that the Cuban government will guarantee the foreign firm X number of workers for $X, with the monies going to the Cuban government who will then pay those workers 7-10% of the $X that the foreign firms contracted them for.

I think what we're going to do with this is cement in place the position of Cuban workers as chattel to be rented by the Cuban government to foreign firms.   

Is commerce done that way with China and Vietnam? What about looking into the future, after Obama and the Castro brothers?

I'm thinking perhaps in the medium term, the US and Cuba will get back to a mutually friendly and beneficial situation, including human rights.

(My wife's uncle, an immigrant from Italy, gained legal entry to the US in the early 1950s via Cuba, when he did not have a basis for direct entry, since his fiancée was an Italian like himself. I don't know the details, but he was proud to be an American by legal immigration. His fiancée was studying medicine at USC in Lost Angeles.)

[Rivergirl]

Goodbye.  Hello Russian spy center.  Russian submarine base.  Chinese airport facilities, ala the Spratleys.

[Rivergirl]

Oops.  Make that Goodbye GITMO

[Paladin]

I wish someone would tell the Chinese their country is not Communist. After all their own Constitution states,

 

Under the leadership of the Communist Party of China and the guidance of Marxism-Leninism and Mao Zedong Thought, the Chinese people of all nationalities will continue to adhere to the people's democratic dictatorship and the socialist road, steadily improve socialist institutions, develop socialist democracy, improve the socialist legal system, and work hard and self-reliantly to modernize the country's industry, agriculture, national defense and science and technology step by step to turn China into a socialist country with a high level of culture and democracy.

http://www.hkhrm.org.hk/english/law/const01.html

The Communist are in charge, make no mistake. They may, for the time being, allow a certain degree of private ownership and entrepeneurship, but that can be changed whenever the Party decides it no longer serves its purposes. The situation in today's China is little different than that under Lenin when he adopted the New Economic Policy (NEP) in order to stave off complete collapse of the Soviet economy. Lenin was followed by Stalin who abandoned the policy and imposed a strict collectivization. The same could happen in China tomorrow.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Is commerce done that way with China and Vietnam? What about looking into the future, after Obama and the Castro brothers?

I'm thinking perhaps in the medium term, the US and Cuba will get back to a mutually friendly and beneficial situation, including human rights.

(My wife's uncle, an immigrant from Italy, gained legal entry to the US in the early 1950s via Cuba, when he did not have a basis for direct entry, since his fiancée was an Italian like himself. I don't know the details, but he was proud to be an American by legal immigration. His fiancée was studying medicine at USC in Lost Angeles.)

I'm not one of those guys who believes that wrong is right because we're already doing it wrong.

I'm thinking that strongmen governments like the one in Cuba have to be dug out of holes and hung because they don't normally give up their hold and power out of the goodness of their hearts.

[Luis Gonzalez]

I wish someone would tell the Chinese their country is not Communist. After all their own Constitution states,

 
http://www.hkhrm.org.hk/english/law/const01.html

The Communist are in charge, make no mistake. They may, for the time being, allow a certain degree of private ownership and entrepeneurship, but that can be changed whenever the Party decides it no longer serves its purposes. The situation in today's China is little different than that under Lenin when he adopted the New Economic Policy (NEP) in order to stave off complete collapse of the Soviet economy. Lenin was followed by Stalin who abandoned the policy and imposed a strict collectivization. The same could happen in China tomorrow.

The same could happen anywhere, here included, but the point is that the cornerstone of Communism is joint ownership of the means of production and the denial of private ownership, so when you have China, Vietnam, and Russia with a significant number of non-government individuals accumulating huge amounts of personal wealth due to the loosening of that idea of no private means of production, then you have to understand that (at least for the time being) these countries are not Communist nations.

[Dexter]

The same could happen anywhere, here included, but the point is that the cornerstone of Communism is joint ownership of the means of production and the denial of private ownership, so when you have China, Vietnam, and Russia with a significant number of non-government individuals accumulating huge amounts of personal wealth due to the loosening of that idea of no private means of production, then you have to understand that (at least for the time being) these countries are not Communist nations.

How many truly communist countries would you say exist in the world today? Based on what you've said so far it sounds to me like the cure for communism is capitalism. If that is the case why would we not restore relations with Cuba?

[EC]

How many truly communist countries would you say exist in the world today? Based on what you've said so far it sounds to me like the cure for communism is capitalism. If that is the case why would we not open up our markets to Cuba?

Your markets have been open to Cuba for decades, except for your seemingly endless supply of tourists (Sorry, summer in London, every other person seems American .... ). The only condition they had placed on them was "cash up front."

[Dexter]

Your markets have been open to Cuba for decades, except for your seemingly endless supply of tourists (Sorry, summer in London, every other person seems American .... ). The only condition they had placed on them was "cash up front."

I know how it is; I live in Florida. I don't know why people even come here. It's way too hot and there are way too many people.

[EC]

Yes, you will get a lot of our lot, so understand that feeling! 

[mystery-ak]

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/246817-obama-heads-for-showdown-over-cuba-embassy
Obama heads for showdown over Cuba embassy

[mystery-ak]

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/246850-now-boarding-jetblue-begins-nyc-to-cuba-direct-flights
Now boarding: JetBlue begins NYC-to-Cuba direct flights

[Luis Gonzalez]

How many truly communist countries would you say exist in the world today? Based on what you've said so far it sounds to me like the cure for communism is capitalism. If that is the case why would we not restore relations with Cuba?

Because capitalism can only work when free entities trade with one another. In order for Cubans to benefit from capitalism, Cuban citizens must be allowed to trade with American citizens. Right now the only entity that anyone can engage in trade with in Cuba is the Cuban government.

[Paladin]

Across the Capitol, Republican leadership also opposes Obama’s Cuba moves, with House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) saying that “relations with the Castro regime should not be revisited, let alone normalized, until Cubans enjoy freedom – and not one second sooner.”

We're doomed.

[Machiavelli]

I know this is going to sound strange, coming from me and all, but why should US policy be crafted to benefit anyone other than Americans?

Just so you understand, there is no embargo. There's been no embargo for quite some time.

We are, and have been for quite some time, one of Cuba's largest trading partners, but they must pay cash.

The "establishing relations" meme is simply a puff of smoke hiding the true intent of the people behind this move to open embassies and crap like that. Their true intent is to have sales to Cuba guaranteed by the Export-Import Bank, and ultimately, the US taxpayer as guarantors to Cuba's debt.

Cuba isn't Communist. Cuba is a plantation, and so long as there are no direct business and trade abilities between private citizens of the two countries, there will be no benefits for Cubans.

US firms however, will be able to negotiate with the Cuban government for labor for their hotels and manufacturing facilities in Cuba. The way that works is that the Cuban government will guarantee the foreign firm X number of workers for $X, with the monies going to the Cuban government who will then pay those workers 7-10% of the $X that the foreign firms contracted them for.

I think what we're going to do with this is cement in place the position of Cuban workers as chattel to be rented by the Cuban government to foreign firms.   

Because capitalism can only work when free entities trade with one another. In order for Cubans to benefit from capitalism, Cuban citizens must be allowed to trade with American citizens. Right now the only entity that anyone can engage in trade with in Cuba is the Cuban government.

Luis, thanks for reminding me and others that this is not as simple and straightforward as we would like to believe.

[Machiavelli]

Across the Capitol, Republican leadership also opposes Obama’s Cuba moves, with House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) saying that “relations with the Castro regime should not be revisited, let alone normalized, until Cubans enjoy freedom – and not one second sooner.”

We're doomed.

Now when it comes to politicians like Boehner, I have to roll my eyes. This has nothing to do with concern about human rights and everything to do with mining votes from the block of Cuban-American voters in Florida.

Yes. I'm really that cynical about politicians in general.