Author Topic: Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush  (Read 15276 times)

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Offline mystery-ak

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Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush
« on: May 27, 2015, 02:08:52 pm »
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/243165-dems-hope-for-cruz-fear-bush

May 27, 2015, 06:00 am
Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush

By Mike Lillis

Democrats are rooting for Sen. Ted Cruz (Texas) to win the Republican presidential nomination, and Jeb Bush is the 2016 candidate they fear the most, according to a survey conducted by The Hill.

In interviews with more than a dozen Democratic lawmakers, former members and strategists, The Hill asked questions to gauge what Democrats think of the large Republican field.

Democrats think Cruz, a conservative firebrand, would alienate independent voters, propel liberals to the polls and give their party the best shot at picking up congressional seats in next year’s elections.

Bush, they say, would be the much tougher opponent, because he’s a former governor from a political dynasty who can both raise hundreds of millions of dollars and appeal more strongly to women and independent voters.

The former Florida governor’s moderate positions on immigration, while unpopular in conservative circles, would also help him with Hispanic voters who could prove crucial in important battleground states such as Florida, Nevada, Virginia and Colorado, the Democrats say.

Bush has not officially entered the contest, but is expected to announce his bid in the coming weeks.

“Unquestionably, without going into names, a more centrist Republican candidate is tougher to campaign against,” said Rep. Steve Israel (N.Y.), who’s heading the messaging strategy for House Democrats.

“All the polling shows us that the Republican brand is highly unpopular,” Israel added. “A Republican who’s reflecting that brand all the way on the right is easy to win against. A Republican who plays against the brand is harder to win against.”

Behind Bush, Democrats are also wary of Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker and Sen. Marco Rubio (Fla.), two relatively new faces who have nonetheless proven to be effective fundraisers while appealing to conservatives and independents alike.

Rep. Raúl Grijalva (D-Ariz.) characterized both as “formidable opponents,” singling out Rubio as particularly tough “because he has no record” and “can make it up as he goes.”

Democrats, who are licking their wounds after a brutal 2014 election cycle, are hoping to ride the coattails of their most likely nominee — Hillary Clinton — to down-ballot success at the polls in 2016.

But they think their chances also hinge on their ability to draw the sharpest contrast between the two candidates at the top of the ticket. That’s why Bush and Rubio worry Democratic operatives.

The Democrats polled by The Hill — by no means members of the Cruz fan club — are rooting for him in the primary battle.

The overwhelming refrain from the Democrats polled is that the Texas senator’s no-apologies brand of conservatism would provide the contrast that will boost their odds in congressional races.

“I don’t [dispute] that Cruz is a force — he’s demonstrated that — but he’s the force that we’d like to see,” said Rep. John Larson (Conn.), former head of the House Democratic Caucus. “He’s a very talented and capable person, but his path to ascendency is to take them further right than they already are, and in order for them to win, they’ve got to be center-right.”

Doug Thornell, Democratic strategist and managing director at SKDKnickerbocker, echoed that message, arguing that a Cruz nomination “would be a catastrophe for the Republican Party.”

“He would be an anvil around the necks of House and Senate Republicans,” Thornell said. “He’s toxic. People see him as a destructive force who doesn’t want to see Washington work, and would shut the place down.”

The 44-year-old Cruz, the first candidate to jump into the still-growing GOP primary field, has been a quickly rising force in national politics, carving out a conservative niche.

His insistence that an ObamaCare repeal be a part of a government spending package contributed to the 2013 shutdown, and his hard line on issues as diverse as immigration reform and abortion have made him a darling of the Tea Party. But many Republicans are wary of Cruz, saying that he has damaged the GOP brand.

Several political action committees supporting Cruz have raked in tens of millions of dollars already this year. And Cruz’s campaign got a boost last week when four Texas Republicans — Reps. Louie Gohmert, Michael Burgess, John Culberson and John Ratcliffe — endorsed his presidential bid.

Still, establishment Republicans, perhaps acknowledging Cruz’s polarizing nature, have been much more reluctant to get on board. Rep. Michael McCaul (R-Texas), chairman of the Homeland Security Committee, said he’s looking for a presidential nominee “who can unite our party and not divide it.”

“A lot of us are tired of this division going on,” McCaul said Thursday at a Christian Science Monitor breakfast in Washington. “I like more a Reagan-type person who can bring the party together and the country, and not be a polarizing, divisive figure.”

Democrats know that Cruz is not the favorite to win the GOP primary. The RealClearPolitics average of polls shows Bush at the top, with Cruz tied for fifth.

Still, political strategists say Cruz could do well in the Iowa caucuses and seize momentum. A recent Quinnipiac University poll had Walker leading Iowa, with Cruz in fourth place and Bush in seventh.

A former House Democrat, noting Cruz’s role in fueling the 2013 government shutdown, said the freshman Texas senator would be a godsend for the Democrats.

“He’s polarizing enough that he would really stimulate the Democratic base,” the former lawmaker said on background. “And he’s controversial enough in the Republican Party that it would disquiet the Chamber of Commerce wing and deaden the Republican turnout.”

Not all Democrats agree. Rep. Marc Veasey (D-Texas) said he’s concerned that the fellow Texan would energize Republicans in a way that Mitt Romney simply didn’t in 2012. And Rep. Alan Grayson (D-Fla.) offered a similar message, arguing that turnout in states like his “is the whole game.”

“In Florida, there’s the blue team, there’s the red team, and everyone knows which team they’re on. It’s that simple. So the only question is: Can you get your people to vote?” Grayson said. “The more effective Republican presidential candidate will be the one who can motivate the base.”
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Offline Millee

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Re: Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2015, 02:12:31 pm »
Yeah, because only moderate Republicans can win a national election.  *derp*   :thumbsdown:

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2015, 02:38:03 pm »
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Offline Longiron

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Re: Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2015, 02:42:14 pm »
The article is from the LIB publication  the HILL.? So it must be discounted by most conservatives. Notice how the say JEB is the one they LIBS fear the most. So they just told everyone who they want as the R candidate. The Title is a Fake reverse ( football) to throw you off whom they really fear the most. That is Ted Cruz. The LIBS will always tell one whom the fear the most no matter what the title of the article will say. TC was right about the Gov't shutdown and they know it but both the LIBS and RINOGOP want JEB or MARCO and will do and say anything for either one to get the nomination???? :patriot:

Offline alicewonders

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Re: Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2015, 02:50:58 pm »

Not very recent polls and polls from biased sources.  I'm sure the RNC has already hired these "strategists" to advise them. 

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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2015, 02:57:15 pm »
The article is from the LIB publication  the HILL.? So it must be discounted by most conservatives. Notice how the say JEB is the one they LIBS fear the most. So they just told everyone who they want as the R candidate. The Title is a Fake reverse ( football) to throw you off whom they really fear the most. That is Ted Cruz. The LIBS will always tell one whom the fear the most no matter what the title of the article will say. TC was right about the Gov't shutdown and they know it but both the LIBS and RINOGOP want JEB or MARCO and will do and say anything for either one to get the nomination???? :patriot:

Obviously the fear from the liberal side is that a Jeb or Marco will cut into their presumed Hispanic vote as well as the women's vote.  So any suggestion that Cruz will somehow be able to put together a national coalition of whites, minorities, women and the elderly is purely wishful thinking, given his record and rhetoric.  Yes, the left desperately wants a Cruz running against a somewhat weakened Hillary.  Cruz isn't a bad sort as a senator, but I'm not sure how he'll even get the right wing vote given that many of them don't believe he's eligible to run for president.
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2015, 03:19:17 pm »
Not very recent polls and polls from biased sources.  I'm sure the RNC has already hired these "strategists" to advise them. 

 :th_10444:

Every aggregate poll for the last two months have shown the same thing: Bush with a slight lead over Walker.

Dismiss them if you wish, but two weeks ago Bush was in the lead, he was in the lead two months ago and he will probably still hold the lead in the next posting of this poll.

And he's yet to formally announce.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 03:36:50 pm by Luis Gonzalez »
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Re: Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2015, 03:50:58 pm »
I do not believe these 'polls'. I think they are being manipulated by Dems somehow.

I know as a Democrat, there is no one I would rather have running on the Pub side than another Bush. There is already so much premade baggage associated with that name.

I would guess the exact opposite is true. They want Bush and fear Cruz. 
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Re: Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2015, 04:07:57 pm »
Cruz isn't a bad sort as a senator, but I'm not sure how he'll even get the right wing vote given that many of them don't believe he's eligible to run for president.

The vast majority of them would vote for a turnip over Hillary Clinton!


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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2015, 04:33:03 pm »
I do not believe these 'polls'. I think they are being manipulated by Dems somehow.

I know as a Democrat, there is no one I would rather have running on the Pub side than another Bush. There is already so much premade baggage associated with that name.

I would guess the exact opposite is true. They want Bush and fear Cruz.

Next to Hillary, Jeb's baggage is carry-on.

it's dangerous to only believe those things that support what we already believe.
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2015, 05:20:25 pm »
The vast majority of them would vote for a turnip over Hillary Clinton!

...But not for Bush.  It does suggest however that the self-described "constitutional conservatives" will give a pass for the right reasons.
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Re: Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2015, 05:29:30 pm »
Tomar con calma, esse.

If Bush gets the nomination, he will lose, Romney style.
Conservative I know do not 'hate' Jeb, but they will not vote for him.

Yea, it would just be another case of apathy and disgust with the Republican elites.
I would not vote against Bush, but I would not vote for him.

I don't know? Nobody can figure it out. But it does seem like the GOPe wants to lose for some reason.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2015, 05:48:32 pm »
...But not for Bush.  It does suggest however that the self-described "constitutional conservatives" will give a pass for the right reasons.

"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2015, 05:58:49 pm »
Anyone who would stand aside and permit another eight years of Democrat rule may be expressing a lot of things politically, but conservative isn't one of them.  And yes, there are a lot who say they will either vote for Hillary or not vote for either candidate should Jeb be the nominee.  In the end, I very much doubt it.  While Obama is a leftist and dangerous, he was and is naive and incompetent.  Hillary OTOH is politically aware, guided by absolutely no moral compass, and equally as dangerous.

Over on the leftist forums, they're saying the same thing from their side.  "Hillary can't win and America needs a Sanders". 

Just as I wonder what on earth Sanders could say or do that would bring together voters from around the political spectrum, I also wonder the same thing about Cruz.
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2015, 05:59:47 pm »


I agree with the quote.  But what has that got to do with voting for Cruz?
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2015, 06:02:45 pm »
I agree with the quote.  But what has that got to do with voting for Cruz?

Everything! But I'm sure you won't understand that either.
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Offline alicewonders

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Re: Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2015, 06:28:59 pm »
I'm pretty sure most of us will vote for whoever the candidate ends up being - I voted for Romney, but unfortunately there will always be those purists who won't vote for a candidate they don't like. 

Jeb Bush is NOT our candidate yet, he hasn't even announced.  The point I was making is that, once again - we are seeing agenda driven polls pushing people to believe that Bush is the foregone candidate and that the Democrats are terrified of him. 

I laugh at that premise!  These polls are mostly jokes.  My worry, and I'm sure the worry of many of us - is that the RNC is going to actually hire a lot of people that are saying this junk - to ADVISE them.  They are going to buy these people's advice - hook, line and sinker.

Why don't we just let the PEOPLE decide who their nominee will be without trying to rig the system by steering everyone toward a certain candidate that seems to be the establishment favorite? 

I don't know who is being polled, but in my everyday contacts with acquaintances and on the Internet - I haven't talked to very many people at all that want Jeb Bush as our nominee.  It's just not there!

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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2015, 06:32:04 pm »
Everything! But I'm sure you won't understand that either.

You're right my friend.  I am a tad slow on the uptake.  And I imagine it's not an easy one to explain for those who support Cruz but at the same time believe he's not constitutionally eligible. 
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2015, 06:37:12 pm »
Tomar con calma, esse.

If Bush gets the nomination, he will lose, Romney style.
Conservative I know do not 'hate' Jeb, but they will not vote for him.

Yea, it would just be another case of apathy and disgust with the Republican elites.
I would not vote against Bush, but I would not vote for him.

I don't know? Nobody can figure it out. But it does seem like the GOPe wants to lose for some reason.

So the whole "moderate candidates can't win" meme from conservatives is a sour grapes/self-fulfilling prophecy thing.

So, if moderates take the same stance as conservatives we won't win any elections any time soon. 
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2015, 06:41:35 pm »

 

I don't know who is being polled, but in my everyday contacts with acquaintances and on the Internet - I haven't talked to very many people at all that want Jeb Bush as our nominee.  It's just not there!

As some wag said who lived on the upper East Side of New York on the day after election day, 1980 "How did Reagan win?  I don't know ANYBODY who voted for him."

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Re: Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2015, 06:43:06 pm »
You're right my friend.  I am a tad slow on the uptake.  And I imagine it's not an easy one to explain for those who support Cruz but at the same time believe he's not constitutionally eligible.

Our Constitution has been misconstrued and lied about for a long time now. So long in fact that a great many have come to believe that the misconstructions and out right lies are truth. That is where we find ourselves today.

Ted Cruz is not, at the moment anyway, my first choice  for our next nominee but he sure as hell comes ahead of a great many others out there on my list.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2015, 06:48:53 pm »
I'm pretty sure most of us will vote for whoever the candidate ends up being - I voted for Romney, but unfortunately there will always be those purists who won't vote for a candidate they don't like. 

Jeb Bush is NOT our candidate yet, he hasn't even announced.  The point I was making is that, once again - we are seeing agenda driven polls pushing people to believe that Bush is the foregone candidate and that the Democrats are terrified of him. 

I laugh at that premise!  These polls are mostly jokes.  My worry, and I'm sure the worry of many of us - is that the RNC is going to actually hire a lot of people that are saying this junk - to ADVISE them.  They are going to buy these people's advice - hook, line and sinker.

Why don't we just let the PEOPLE decide who their nominee will be without trying to rig the system by steering everyone toward a certain candidate that seems to be the establishment favorite? 

I don't know who is being polled, but in my everyday contacts with acquaintances and on the Internet - I haven't talked to very many people at all that want Jeb Bush as our nominee.  It's just not there!

Frankly I'm not in Jeb's camp yet either.  He has a lot going for him though which is why polls still show him in the first tier.  He's a successful former governor; he seems to have the ability to lead and bring in at least moderates from both sides of the aisle.  He certainly has a campaign team and war chest.  He can bring in the women's vote and the Hispanic vote, at least in greater percentages than recent nominees for the GOP.  He can work with the other side on major issues including tax and immigration reform. 

But he has some shortcomings.  He is a Bush.  He has already had to backtrack on an issue and any more such faux pas will not help him.  He has to get through a grueling campaign and as one of the front-runners will be a target for all the wannabes. 

I don't believe there's some huge conspiracy among the professional polls to put Bush in the lead just to help the Dems.  These same polling organizations frequently come up with poll results on issues not terribly favorable to the liberal side of politics.  But you're right.  It is very early.
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2015, 06:51:18 pm »
Our Constitution has been misconstrued and lied about for a long time now. So long in fact that a great many have come to believe that the misconstructions and out right lies are truth. That is where we find ourselves today.

Ted Cruz is not, at the moment anyway, my first choice  for our next nominee but he sure as hell comes ahead of a great many others out there on my list.

Can't argue with you in general.  I don't always agree on a USSC decision which interprets the Constitution.  But from what I've seen, the left feels the same way, albeit usually on different issues.  Still, I would love to hear from a Cruz supporter who also believes he's not eligible for office.
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Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2015, 04:42:11 am »
But it does seem like the GOPe wants to lose for some reason.

The GOPe does not pick the candidates.  The candidates pick themselves, and the primary voters pick the nominee.  If hard right conservatism was popular with Republicans then the candidate would be hard right.  The GOP leadership just reflects the reality that conservatism is not that popular outside of talk radio.

That being said, we have never had a more conservative Congress in my lifetime.  You should be happy that voters have chosen huge Republican majorities from Congress down to state legislatures, but you instead choose to elevate the GOPe to an omnipotent political juggernaut that you are pitifully unable to influence. 

When the most extreme wing of conservatism leaves the GOP, it will force the GOP to move left to win a majority.  Hard right conservative self deportation allows moderates to then perceive the GOP as an acceptable party to support.  It does seem like the conservatives want to lose for some reason.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Dems hope for Cruz, fear Bush
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2015, 04:45:48 am »
The GOPe does not pick the candidates.  The candidates pick themselves, and the primary voters pick the nominee.  If hard right conservatism was popular with Republicans then the candidate would be hard right.  The GOP leadership just reflects the reality that conservatism is not that popular outside of talk radio.

That being said, we have never had a more conservative Congress in my lifetime.  You should be happy that voters have chosen huge Republican majorities from Congress down to state legislatures, but you instead choose to elevate the GOPe to an omnipotent political juggernaut that you are pitifully unable to influence. 

When the most extreme wing of conservatism leaves the GOP, it will force the GOP to move left to win a majority.  Hard right conservative self deportation allows moderates to then perceive the GOP as an acceptable party to support.  It does seem like the conservatives want to lose for some reason.

Quit making sense.
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