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Indiana governor backs down, calls for fix to religious law
« on: March 31, 2015, 04:20:02 pm »
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/237471-pence-calls-for-immediate-fix-to-controversial-law

March 31, 2015, 11:36 am
Indiana governor backs down, calls for fix to religious law
By Ben Kamisar

Indiana Gov. Mike Pence (R) on Tuesday backed away from his support for a religious freedom law and asked his state Legislature to immediately change it to ensure it would not discriminate against gays and lesbians.

Pence, who signed the bill into law last week, insisted it was not intended to allow businesses to discriminate against gay people.

But in the face of a growing firestorm and economic boycotts of his state, he argued state lawmakers should act immediately to quell concerns over the measure.

“It would be helpful to move legislation this week that makes it clear that this law does not give businesses the right to deny services to anyone,” Pence said at a press conference Tuesday morning.

“We want to make it clear that Indiana is open for business, we want to make it clear that Hoosier hospitality is not a slogan, its our way of life.”
Pence, who has been seen as a potential GOP presidential candidate, blamed the media and critics of his law for much of the controversy.

He said he believes the law “does not give anyone a license to deny services to gay and lesbian couples,” and that the law had been mischaracterized.

 “The proper legislative remedy is to focus on the perception that has been created by the misunderstanding,” he said. “This was grossly mischaracterized by advocates who opposed the bill and frankly sloppy reporting.”

Pence previously had defended the law as a necessary way to ward off government intrusion into personal religious beliefs. The governor had also noted that a version of the law is on the books in dozens of states.
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Offline flowers

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Re: Indiana governor backs down, calls for fix to religious law
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2015, 04:54:39 pm »
PFFFT!


Offline flowers

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Re: Indiana governor backs down, calls for fix to religious law
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2015, 04:55:56 pm »
I AM SICK AND TIRED OF THIS SHIT!!!!!!!


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Re: Indiana governor backs down, calls for fix to religious law
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2015, 04:59:56 pm »
I AM SICK AND TIRED OF THIS SHIT!!!!!!!

I suppose the concept of not doing business with somebody that first rejected you....is a a foreign one.

What idiot would force a baker to produce a cake...edible treat...for a group that he/she abhors and believes sinful?

THAT'S the sh*t I'm tired of.... :laugh:
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Offline massadvj

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Re: Indiana governor backs down, calls for fix to religious law
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2015, 05:01:24 pm »
Y TU GOVERNOR PENCE?  Y TU?

Online Lando Lincoln

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Re: Indiana governor backs down, calls for fix to religious law
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2015, 05:03:19 pm »
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Re: Indiana governor backs down, calls for fix to religious law
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2015, 05:54:14 pm »
So he caved and gave the enemy an unearned victory.  Good yob, Governor Pence.
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Re: Indiana governor backs down, calls for fix to religious law
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2015, 06:06:33 pm »
I suppose the concept of not doing business with somebody that first rejected you....is a a foreign one.

What idiot would force a baker to produce a cake...edible treat...for a group that he/she abhors and believes sinful?

THAT'S the sh*t I'm tired of.... :laugh:

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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Indiana governor backs down, calls for fix to religious law
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2015, 06:17:39 pm »
And the gay lobby is now more emboldened than ever. Look for them to begin organizing campaigns against the other 19 states that have such laws and even the federal government.

Gay marriage will never enjoy equal support of traditional marriage and, I'm convinced, this just gnaws at the guts of the fanatics.  They can't stand it.

So, look for the pressure to grow EVEN MORE after gay marriage is recognized by the Supreme Court to force every entity in this country to recognize and support gay marriage or be shut down.

Churches, you're in the crosshairs.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline musiclady

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Re: Indiana governor backs down, calls for fix to religious law
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2015, 06:20:37 pm »
Score one (MORE) for the Gay Gestapo.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

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Offline musiclady

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Re: Indiana governor backs down, calls for fix to religious law
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2015, 06:21:47 pm »
Y TU GOVERNOR PENCE?  Y TU?

Weakness is the name of the game.

We can't win this war with such weak-kneed 'leaders.'
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline aligncare

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Re: Indiana governor backs down, calls for fix to religious law
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2015, 06:33:28 pm »
Dare I say it?

Mike Pence (who I previously thought was a fantastic conservative governor), in this episode anyway, appears to display behavior somewhat reminiscent of a rhinoceros. Hmm.  :pondering:

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Indiana governor backs down, calls for fix to religious law
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2015, 06:39:49 pm »
Pence previously had defended the law as a necessary way to ward off government intrusion into personal religious beliefs. The governor had also noted that a version of the law is on the books in dozens of states.

You're looking at it wrong.

This is the first step toward getting those laws removed in dozens of states...

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

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Online Lando Lincoln

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Re: Indiana governor backs down, calls for fix to religious law
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2015, 06:48:02 pm »
And the gay lobby is now more emboldened than ever. Look for them to begin organizing campaigns against the other 19 states that have such laws and even the federal government.

Gay marriage will never enjoy equal support of traditional marriage and, I'm convinced, this just gnaws at the guts of the fanatics.  They can't stand it.

So, look for the pressure to grow EVEN MORE after gay marriage is recognized by the Supreme Court to force every entity in this country to recognize and support gay marriage or be shut down.

Churches, you're in the crosshairs.

Agreed.  They said, No More!, and drew the line in Indiana.  They didn't give a hoot the Indiana law was modeled after others.  So, by capitulating, Pence gave the LGBT crowd (and any other crowd) the impetus they need for future "outrage".  Pence validated their platform.  Contrast that to how Walker never blinked in Wisconsin when the unionistas and leftists damn near burned down Madison.  Walker's stand propelled him onto the national stage.  Pence should have stood firm and said, "Go to hell".

Mike Pence is now a footnote Governor.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 06:48:42 pm by Lando Lincoln »
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Online Lando Lincoln

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Re: Indiana governor backs down, calls for fix to religious law
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2015, 06:55:53 pm »
I guess I can insist on bacon being served at any Mideast delicatessen or café anywhere in Indiana.  Right?
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Offline Longiron

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Re: Indiana governor backs down, calls for fix to religious law
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2015, 07:25:40 pm »
So he caved and gave the enemy an unearned victory.  Good yob, Governor Pence.

Like caving will do him any good. Stand by your principals and WIN. Showed his true RINO colors of CAVING.
He fooled some of the people some of the time that he was a conservative  w principals BUT cannot fool all the people all the time. THIS will KILL him except for the RINOGOP and they are going down Fast. **nononono*

Offline Longiron

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Re: Indiana governor backs down, calls for fix to religious law
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2015, 07:27:13 pm »
You're looking at it wrong.

This is the first step toward getting those laws removed in dozens of states...

Good Point and they will start in IL up the street. They have the exact same law?????

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Indiana governor backs down, calls for fix to religious law
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2015, 08:18:44 pm »
I guess I can insist on bacon being served at any Mideast delicatessen or café anywhere in Indiana.  Right?

Not the best analogy.

If bacon is not on my menu, you can't demand that I serve it to you. It's not on the menu and the reason there is a menu is to detail the things I serve in my restaurant. It's a restaurant, not a cornucopia.

However, if bacon IS on my menu and I won't serve it to you because I don't serve bacon to elderly white Christian men, I'm breaking all kinds of laws.

"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Online Lando Lincoln

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Re: Indiana governor backs down, calls for fix to religious law
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2015, 08:28:58 pm »
Not the best analogy.

If bacon is not on my menu, you can't demand that I serve it to you. It's not on the menu and the reason there is a menu is to detail the things I serve in my restaurant. It's a restaurant, not a cornucopia.

However, if bacon IS on my menu and I won't serve it to you because I don't serve bacon to elderly white Christian men, I'm breaking all kinds of laws.

I know - it is a very weak analogy.  But, I am aggrieved, dammit!!!  Where can I get recourse, restitution?  Okay, I'll stop now. 

Hey wait... what did you mean by this ...elderly white Christian men???
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Indiana governor backs down, calls for fix to religious law
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2015, 09:08:01 pm »
It is FALSE to claim the Indiana measure is the same as the federal and other states' measures.

The Indiana measure goes further to justify and make it legal to discriminate against gays.

It was an incredibly stupid, unforced political play, and it will have negative results.

The biggest political segment is independent. They support the GOP on economic issues, and they support the democrats on social issues.  IOW this measure reinforces that the GOP is the party of religious bigots.

I have always liked Pence, and my guess is he was NOT informed that the Indiana law was substantially different. Hence his quick decision, to repair the damage caused by his own party. It was either intentional, or careless.

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Re: Indiana governor backs down, calls for fix to religious law
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2015, 09:28:33 pm »
It is FALSE to claim the Indiana measure is the same as the federal and other states' measures.

The Indiana measure goes further to justify and make it legal to discriminate against gays.

It was an incredibly stupid, unforced political play, and it will have negative results.

The biggest political segment is independent. They support the GOP on economic issues, and they support the democrats on social issues.  IOW this measure reinforces that the GOP is the party of religious bigots.

I have always liked Pence, and my guess is he was NOT informed that the Indiana law was substantially different. Hence his quick decision, to repair the damage caused by his own party. It was either intentional, or careless.

I only know what I have read in reports and commentary.  As such, I have not read the actual bill as signed nor have I compared it to others presumably used as models.  That means, obviously, I could be drawing some conclusions that are wrong.  However, Pence has dropped it in the dirt here.  His standing may never recover.  This is a political nightmare for him and it splashes all over Republicans in general.  It emboldens the other guys and gives the media endless opportunities for breathless exhortations.  What a mess.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 09:42:31 pm by Lando Lincoln »
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Re: Indiana governor backs down, calls for fix to religious law
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2015, 09:46:07 pm »
I only know what I have read in reports and commentary.  As such, I have not read the actual bill as signed nor have I compared it to others presumably used as models.  That means, obviously, I could be drawing some conclusions that are wrong.  However, Pence has dropped it in the dirt here.  His standing may never recover.  This is a political nightmare for him and it splashes all over Republicans in general.  It emboldens the other guys and gives the media endless opportunities for breathless exhortations.  What a mess.

I can live with his stepping on his own wanger, but he stepped on all of ours by caving.  (I don't agree the IN law went further than other laws, BTW.)  The job of protecting our rights just got a lot more difficult.  He should have stuck to his guns, as Walker did standing up to the unions.  As a result, Walker has a good chance of being President, and Pence's chances just dropped to about zero.
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Offline aligncare

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Re: Indiana governor backs down, calls for fix to religious law
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2015, 09:52:36 pm »
Why do social conservatives get tarred for their religious belief in traditional morality and the left escapes criticism for their religious belief in state liberalism?

Which belief system enslaves people and which liberates them?

Offline Machiavelli

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Re: Indiana governor backs down, calls for fix to religious law
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2015, 09:59:56 pm »
It is FALSE to claim the Indiana measure is the same as the federal and other states' measures.

The Indiana measure goes further to justify and make it legal to discriminate against gays.

It was an incredibly stupid, unforced political play, and it will have negative results.

The biggest political segment is independent. They support the GOP on economic issues, and they support the democrats on social issues.  IOW this measure reinforces that the GOP is the party of religious bigots.

I have always liked Pence, and my guess is he was NOT informed that the Indiana law was substantially different. Hence his quick decision, to repair the damage caused by his own party. It was either intentional, or careless.
I'm suggesting careless, as in poorly written, and pandering to a block of prospective voters.

From the Indy Star: Editorial: Gov. Pence, fix 'religious freedom' law now

Quote
... Only bold action — action that sends an unmistakable message to the world that our state will not tolerate discrimination against any of its citizens — will be enough to reverse the damage.

Gov. Mike Pence and the General Assembly need to enact a state law to prohibit discrimination in employment, housing, education and public accommodations on the basis of a person's sexual orientation or gender identity.

Those protections and RFRA can co-exist. They do elsewhere.

Laws protecting sexual orientation and gender identity are not foreign to Indiana.

Indianapolis, for example, has had those legal protections in place for nearly a decade. Indy's law applies to businesses with more than six employees, and exempts religious organizations and nonprofit groups.

The city's human rights ordinance provides strong legal protection — and peace of mind —for LGBT citizens; yet, it has not placed an undue burden on businesses ...

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Indiana governor backs down, calls for fix to religious law
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2015, 12:21:25 am »
I can live with his stepping on his own wanger, but he stepped on all of ours by caving.  (I don't agree the IN law went further than other laws, BTW.)  The job of protecting our rights just got a lot more difficult.  He should have stuck to his guns, as Walker did standing up to the unions.  As a result, Walker has a good chance of being President, and Pence's chances just dropped to about zero.

I don't know about that. I haven't read all the other laws, but this one is very broad, allowing for a whole lot of elbow room when it comes as to what constitutes a "substantial burden" on someone's free exercise of their religious beliefs.

The law asserts that the government can't "substantially burden a person's exercise of religion" and that individuals who feel like their religious beliefs have been or could be "substantially burdened" can lean on this law to fend off lawsuits.

So, I can refuse to rent my house to a gay couple, or a Muslim, or a Jew and claim that doing those things constitutes a "substantial burden" on my religious beliefs.

Could you also demand that your employer fire or relocate the gay people in your office because their being there may prove to exert a "substantial burden" on your religious beliefs?

The way to protected class for gays is through these kinds of laws.

They're not so much winning this battle as the religious community is self-immolating. 
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 12:23:40 am by Luis Gonzalez »
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