Author Topic: So, Who is the Land of the Free?  (Read 2617 times)

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Offline EC

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So, Who is the Land of the Free?
« on: March 27, 2015, 11:51:17 am »
Last week it was my pleasure to escort a couple of American friends, not only around the tourist sights, but to lesser known pleasures such as the Full English Breakfast, the joys of tea drinking, country walks, educating them in the art and science of enjoying a quiet pint in a crowded pub, and introduction to curry. It was fun, as always, seeing my homeland through the eyes of people who don't know it, and reminded me of just how lucky I am and, to be honest, how beautiful the place actually is.

The first couple of days went about as expected - a lot of fun and laughing, the sheer pleasure of planning the routes so we'd turn a corner and suddenly there was something amazing to see and watching their jaws drop (Coming upon Saint Paul's when you are not expecting it tends to short circuit people's brains) and the trepidation as they tried black pudding and learned what real bacon tastes like. Then on Day 3, we went to Canterbury.

"It's only 50 miles away. Why are we leaving so early?" This from Ron, who had slightly over indulged in pub the night before and was discovering first hand how painful a real ale hangover can be. "You'll see."

England's roads were here long before cars, and property rights are complex, to say the least. The motorway we took, our equivalent of an interstate, is the old coaching road to Dover and is roughly as wide as a typical street in a Phoenix suburb. It has one straight flat section that is longer than two miles, the rest is hills and corners. Add in a million or so vehicles trying to get into London just on that road and another quarter million or so trying to get out, and they soon discovered why driving is a dreaded chore over here rather than an expression of freedom and the average in town speed is south of 7 miles per hour.

It got us talking about the little things that add up to huge differences in the two countries. Odd things, mostly. Like how clean the streets are and how quiet people are. The fact that the country is pretty much laid out with people in mind, not cars. Footpaths across private land which anyone may use. Pulling in to a petrol station for fuel and filling up before paying, something I don't think twice about - that lead to a long discussion which basically boiled down to "we trust people over here" and me getting totally indignant at the thought of not being trusted. Then there was the joy of ID's.

See, we don't have them. There is no ID requirement in the UK. Sure, you need a driving license to drive, which nearly a 6th the population don't bother with, but you don't need to carry it with you. If you get pulled by the police, you give your name and they check your license on the spot by computer. Buying alcohol or cigarettes? If you look old enough, you are old enough. Makes it simple for the shop keepers, and they'll accept someone elses word if they are in doubt. There is a voluntary scheme of ID for those lucky souls who look young but are of legal age, but the uptake is low. About the only people who regularly have a form of ID with them are the retired - the free bus pass counts, I suppose.

So, next time you read about our "Big Brother" surveillance state, you might want to consider that we are actually freer than you.

 :tongue2:
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Offline Lando Lincoln

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Re: So, Who is the Land of the Free?
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2015, 12:06:32 pm »
Thanks for the composition EC. I understand your point - it resonates and I grieve over our regulated and controlled lives. Our 2nd Amendment gives us (so far) something precious, however.
There are some among us who live in rooms of experience we can never enter.
John Steinbeck

Offline PzLdr

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Re: So, Who is the Land of the Free?
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2015, 12:37:38 pm »
EC,

Tell me about how much freer you are than us when:
[a] We swap opinions on the contents of each other's gun safes,
Some nameless EU bureaucrat in Brussels can't regulate some aspect of your life, and
[c] PC and your own government stops destroying your society and culture to satisfy the Muzzies.
Hillary's Self-announced Qualifications: She Stood Up To Putin...She Sits to Pee

Offline EC

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Re: So, Who is the Land of the Free?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2015, 01:04:21 pm »
Sure: Lets take the easy ones first, that'd be b and c.

b: Go light a fire, or fill in a wet patch on your land, or daring to collect rain water. Some nameless bureaucrat will be along in a moment to fine you. Or try depositing less than $10000 in cash in your own bank account - good luck getting it back when it is seized by some nameless bureaucrat. Or even take a nice walk on Federal land - see if you can outrun the chopper they'll send after you. The mote in our eye looks small compared to the beam in your own in this case. Especially since we don't hold ourselves up as a beacon of freedom to the world.

c: Our government isn't exactly terrified of the words Muslim Jihad, unlike your own. We profile the shit out of immigrants and visitors, and they are monitored - constantly - unlike your own lack of borders. The only effective border the USA has is the Canadian one - and that's more the Canadian's doing.

Which leads us to a:

What good is talking about the contents of your gun cabinet? Does that magically make you freer? I'd never discuss what I might or might not have squirreled away, that is foolish. And yes, long guns and shotguns are legal here and not much more of a hassle to get than what you have to put up with to buy from a gun store. Police check and a bit of paper is all you need. Handguns, not so easy to get.

The right to bear arms doesn't make you freer, only the willingness to use them. It's now a convenient distraction used while you get ever more tightly regulated from other directions. Shrillary is in trouble with her e-mail woes? Quick! Release a rumor we are going to ban a certain type of ammo! You fall for it, every single time. Without fail.
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Offline Lando Lincoln

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Re: So, Who is the Land of the Free?
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2015, 01:19:56 pm »
As for the rest of your original post EC... I think I'd rather enjoy traveling the English countryside with you. I would dread the inevitable aching morning-head, however.

Oh... And I played a wicked game of steel darts back in the day - even took 2nd place in an informal tournament in Hong Kong (I choked).  Drove some of the Brits crazy. Wonderful time.
There are some among us who live in rooms of experience we can never enter.
John Steinbeck

Offline Bigun

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Re: So, Who is the Land of the Free?
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2015, 01:28:26 pm »
I love England and the the English people! I descend from there! I Love the countryside but I WILL NOT drive there! They drive on the wrong side of the road and the lorry drivers are CRAZY!!!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Lando Lincoln

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Re: So, Who is the Land of the Free?
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2015, 01:48:50 pm »
I love England and the the English people! I descend from there! I Love the countryside but I WILL NOT drive there! They drive on the wrong side of the road and the lorry drivers are CRAZY!!!

I lived in Trinidad for over a year. I drove every day and I never became 100% adjusted to driving on the left side.

BTW... a Brit friend and I came up with an alcohol-induced theory as to the reasoning. I'll share it when I have time.
There are some among us who live in rooms of experience we can never enter.
John Steinbeck

Offline alicewonders

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Re: So, Who is the Land of the Free?
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2015, 02:08:25 pm »
My two cents on England.  I've only been there once in 1997 and I loved it!  My brother-in-law is British and so I have "family" over there.  His parents were very nice to me, taking me to antique shops off the beaten track.  I had a wonderful time and have always wanted to go back.  The beauty of the countryside will take your breath away.  My forefathers came here from the British Isles and I feel a deep connection to the land and people. 


Points:

1.  I was struck by how CLEAN it is, compared to most of the US, to the point of pristine, even in the cities. 
2.  I felt safer there than I do here, even in London and in The Tube.  I did not feel that way in New York and most especially in their subway.
3.  The architecture, the houses and churches especially, is really a sight to behold for someone who loves historical buildings.  BEAUTIFUL.
4.  I loved the pubs!  I long for such places over here.
5.  Castles.  Need I say more?
6.  Love the people, they were all nice to me - although my sister's in-laws did let their feelings about Americans slip once or twice.  I have to admit though, when I am shopping and driving, I can completely understand anyone thinking we lack class and manners sometimes.
7.  My favorite television shows are the British ones.  The acting is top class, the
writing is miles better and the scenery is wonderful.


I visited in 1997 and much has changed since then.  I can't speak for how England might have changed since then, but in 1997 I didn't have to be groped to fly on a plane, I didn't have the government spying on my every word and movement.  We bought guns, but not out of any terror of not being able to get them in the near future, and not out of any fear our homes would be looted when the SHTF.  We didn't feel a screaming need to stock up months worth of food and water for the same reason.  I wasn't crazy about my government then (Clinton era), but I didn't live in daily fear of them either.  Our schoolchildren were not dictated as to what they could eat - and they certainly didn't have to submit to daily weigh-ins!  I could go on and on. 

I was not embarassed and shamed by our standing on the world stage....as I am now.

I would never say that the United States is the Land of the Free now.

I'm sure England has undergone similar changes since then.  I feel like I am living in an oppressive nation of people that have no grand hope for the future.  I never thought I would see such things.

I would love to go back to England someday, I hope it is still the place I remember!

 
 
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Offline Bigun

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Re: So, Who is the Land of the Free?
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2015, 02:13:52 pm »
I love England and the the English people! I descend from there! I Love the countryside but I WILL NOT drive there! They drive on the wrong side of the road and the lorry drivers are CRAZY!!!

Please note that I did not mention the cuisine! That was intentional and based on the old "if you can't say something nice" thing!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Lando Lincoln

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Re: So, Who is the Land of the Free?
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2015, 02:18:06 pm »
My two cents on England.  I've only been there once in 1997 and I loved it!  My brother-in-law is British and so I have "family" over there.  His parents were very nice to me, taking me to antique shops off the beaten track.  I had a wonderful time and have always wanted to go back.  The beauty of the countryside will take your breath away.  My forefathers came here from the British Isles and I feel a deep connection to the land and people. 


Points:

1.  I was struck by how CLEAN it is, compared to most of the US, to the point of pristine, even in the cities. 
2.  I felt safer there than I do here, even in London and in The Tube.  I did not feel that way in New York and most especially in their subway.
3.  The architecture, the houses and churches especially, is really a sight to behold for someone who loves historical buildings.  BEAUTIFUL.
4.  I loved the pubs!  I long for such places over here.
5.  Castles.  Need I say more?
6.  Love the people, they were all nice to me - although my sister's in-laws did let their feelings about Americans slip once or twice.  I have to admit though, when I am shopping and driving, I can completely understand anyone thinking we lack class and manners sometimes.
7.  My favorite television shows are the British ones.  The acting is top class, the
writing is miles better and the scenery is wonderful.


I visited in 1997 and much has changed since then.  I can't speak for how England might have changed since then, but in 1997 I didn't have to be groped to fly on a plane, I didn't have the government spying on my every word and movement.  We bought guns, but not out of any terror of not being able to get them in the near future, and not out of any fear our homes would be looted when the SHTF.  We didn't feel a screaming need to stock up months worth of food and water for the same reason.  I wasn't crazy about my government then (Clinton era), but I didn't live in daily fear of them either.  Our schoolchildren were not dictated as to what they could eat - and they certainly didn't have to submit to daily weigh-ins!  I could go on and on. 

I was not embarassed and shamed by our standing on the world stage....as I am now.

I would never say that the United States is the Land of the Free now.

I'm sure England has undergone similar changes since then.  I feel like I am living in an oppressive nation of people that have no grand hope for the future.  I never thought I would see such things.

I would love to go back to England someday, I hope it is still the place I remember!


Nicely done Alice.  You capture my grief of today and my fond recollections.  We live in an era now where there is absolutely nothing in our lives that a little more government can't improve.
There are some among us who live in rooms of experience we can never enter.
John Steinbeck

Offline aligncare

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Re: So, Who is the Land of the Free?
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2015, 02:19:37 pm »
Born in Sicily but never ached to go back for a visit. But, England? I would love to see the charming countryside villages and the London restaurants and nightlife. I will visit someday soon.

As for the topic, yes, America has become a technocratic nightmare, a doppelgänger of the old Soviet Union. We are surveilled, regulated, fined and taxed to death here. I miss the liberty America of our not-too-distant past.