Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback

[musiclady]

How is it a broad coalition?

What different kinds of people?

Your highlighted description  are simply conservative goals. The fact that there may be a number of new people working toward those goals don't make the goals new.

Did I ever say the goals were new?  (No).

It is the coalition that's new.  There are Conservative Republicans, Libertarians, Independents and even some conservative Democrats who are now working to try to shrink government by electing conservatives, not only to Congress, but also to local and state offices.

We just elected a County Commissioner here who had been a mayor of a small town, but who is a strong Tea Party conservative.

This is happening all over the place, Luis.

And this has NOT happened before.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Did I ever say the goals were new?  (No).

It is the coalition that's new.  There are Conservative Republicans, Libertarians, Independents and even some conservative Democrats who are now working to try to shrink government by electing conservatives, not only to Congress, but also to local and state offices.

We just elected a County Commissioner here who had been a mayor of a small town, but who is a strong Tea Party conservative.

This is happening all over the place, Luis.

And this has NOT happened before.

I don't see that happening.

But if you say so.

[musiclady]

I don't see that happening.

But if you say so.

Perhaps if you were part of the movement, you would see it.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Perhaps if you were part of the movement, you would see it.

I am part of no movement.

I see movements as collectivism.

[massadvj]

I am part of no movement.

I see movements as collectivism.

LG: All movements are bowel movements. 

[Luis Gonzalez]

LG: All movements are bowel movements. 

 

You'll find few Cubans that are fans of populist movements.

[musiclady]

I am part of no movement.

I see movements as collectivism.

That's interesting.

A 'movement' of willing individuals fighting for individual rights is warped into 'collectivism.'

Fascinating perspective, albeit not accurate relative to what's happened.

[DCPatriot]

From a seasoned citizen's perspective based upon what I've been taught and have read:


When the Colonialists threw cases of tea to be shipped from Boston Harbor, it has become to called/named The Boston Tea 'PARTY'.

"Did you go to the party, Ben?  We emptied an entire load overboard!"

Today, the "Party" has been every election in the United States since November 2010.   And for the opening of American Sniper.

The TEA PARTY can never die, Luis.

Of course, there are candidates who attempt to tie themselves to it.   That's not the point.   The point is that you are a member of a vast voting army, standing on that wall.    Ready until called upon.

Don't fight it Luis!    Deep breaths...... let the light embrace you.   

[Luis Gonzalez]

That's interesting.

A 'movement' of willing individuals fighting for individual rights is warped into 'collectivism.'

Fascinating perspective, albeit not accurate relative to what's happened.

That's how my people ended up with dual Castros for 59 years.

[musiclady]

From a seasoned citizen's perspective based upon what I've been taught and have read:


When the Colonialists threw cases of tea to be shipped from Boston Harbor, it has become to called/named The Boston Tea 'PARTY'.

"Did you go to the party, Ben?  We emptied an entire load overboard!"

Today, the "Party" has been every election in the United States since November 2010.   And for the opening of American Sniper.

The TEA PARTY can never die, Luis.

Of course, there are candidates who attempt to tie themselves to it.   That's not the point.   The point is that you are a member of a vast voting army, standing on that wall.    Ready until called upon.

Don't fight it Luis!    Deep breaths...... let the light embrace you.   

Well done, DC!  WELL done!   

[Bigun]

The origination of the TEA Party began, IMO, as musiclady stated...Santelli's rant on the floor of the stock exchange.

That and nothing that happened somewhere in 2005 got me and another 800K people get off our a$$es and march down Independence Ave NW in Sept. 2009.

And causation has nothing to do with it.   Because anybody who votes against the status quo today is, in effect, a member of the TEA Party, whether they know it or not.

That's the beauty of it.  it's totally abstract.

I agree with that as well! The 800K people who got off their a$$es and marched down Independence Ave. were representative of MILLIONS of other God fearing, Constitution loving, Americans who have FINALLY realized that we can no longer stand on the sidelines and expect that this great republic will survive! To one degree or another those millions of Americans have banded together under the umbrella of a loosely defined organization called the TEA party for the single purpose of TAKING OUR COUNTRY BACK and by God that is EXACTLY what we WILL do one way or another!

We have made some mistakes and will likely make some more before we are done but we will not stop until we are either dead or have put this country back in the hands of those it was always meant to belong to! The people!

[musiclady]

That's how my people ended up with dual Castros for 59 years.

I find your parallel completely illogical, Luis.

A brutally violent political, Communist coup bears NO relationship whatsoever with the spontaneous actions of every day American people who understand that it is well past time to stand up for individual liberty.

You completely misrepresent what the Tea Party clearly has been when you make this absurd connection.

[Luis Gonzalez]

I find your parallel completely illogical, Luis.

A brutally violent political, Communist coup bears NO relationship whatsoever with the spontaneous actions of every day American people who understand that it is well past time to stand up for individual liberty.

You completely misrepresent what the Tea Party clearly has been when you make this absurd connection.

Maybe you will allow me to understand my history better than you understand it. 

The Castros did not come to power by portraying themselves as Communists or by behaving brutally violent.

Every day Cubans saw a "people's movement" fighting against abuses of power and constant Constitutional violations by the Batista government. Their promise and their battle cry was restoring the Constitution.

They have yet to deliver on that promise.

I don't trust populist movements. I see them as manifested collectivism.

I have no need or obligation to either explain that or defend it.

[Bigun]

I find your parallel completely illogical, Luis.

A brutally violent political, Communist coup bears NO relationship whatsoever with the spontaneous actions of every day American people who understand that it is well past time to stand up for individual liberty.

You completely misrepresent what the Tea Party clearly has been when you make this absurd connection.

I think Luis has me on ignore so I will respond to you and simply say that you wind up with a butcher named Mao ruling China and two Castro brothers running Cuba not because they were the leaders of any movement but because the State Department of the United States of America had been allowed to become INFESTED with Communist operatives who were DETERMINED to put them in power! They were  aided by them at every possible opportunity while the people who's side the country professed to be on at the time we clandestinely undercut at every turn! Without all that assistance from the U.S. Department of State Chiang Kai-shek would have defeated Mao in China and the Castro Brothers would have been defeated as well!

[Luis Gonzalez]

I think Luis has me on ignore so I will respond to you and simply say that you wind up with a butcher named Mao ruling China and two Castro brothers running Cuba not because they were the leaders of any movement but because the State Department of the United States of America had been allowed to become INFESTED with Communist operatives who were DETERMINED to put them in power! They were  aided by them at every possible opportunity while the people who's side the country professed to be on at the time we clandestinely undercut at every turn! Without all that assistance from the U.S. Department of State Chiang Kai-shek would have defeated Mao in China and the Castro Brothers would have been defeated as well!

I don't have you on ignore.

The PEOPLE of Cuba backed the Castro brothers. Many who later came here vowing to die fighting them (and in many cases did)  backed them, welcomed and cheered them as they rolled into the capital.

The US State Department stopped supplying Batista because they (rightly) understood that the Castro brothers had the backing of the people where Batista did not.

I was only three, but I've seen the images enough to understand what they indicate.

I don't trust populist movements.

[musiclady]

Maybe you will allow me to understand my history better than you understand it. 

The Castros did not come to power by portraying themselves as Communists or by behaving brutally violent.

Every day Cubans saw a "people's movement" fighting against abuses of power and constant Constitutional violations by the Batista government. Their promise and their battle cry was restoring the Constitution.

They have yet to deliver on that promise.

I don't trust populist movements. I see them as manifested collectivism.

I have no need or obligation to either explain that or defend it.

I'm in no way diminishing your personal experience in Cuba, Luis, and I am well aware that "every day Cubans" saw a "people's movement."  Nor am I diminishing your feeling against 'movements' and are suspect of what they are.

Nonetheless, your associating the Tea Party with what happened in the Communist takeover of Cuba falls short of logic because of what you know to be the reality of this conservative uprising of every day people.

As has been stated before, there is no one 'behind' us.  There is no dark force among us.  Nor are there dark motives in our hearts.

There will be no tanks rolling into DC because of people like alicewonders, DC Patriot, Bigun and me, or the millions more just like us.

We believe in the Constitution (for real), and we believe in individual liberty, and not a pair of brutal brothers whose motives were treacherous.

[musiclady]

Another point............ the Tea Party is based on information and the distribution of that information to every day Americans.

There is no parallel with the feelings of the Cuban people and the understanding of Tea Party people.

[Luis Gonzalez]

I'm in no way diminishing your personal experience in Cuba, Luis, and I am well aware that "every day Cubans" saw a "people's movement."  Nor am I diminishing your feeling against 'movements' and are suspect of what they are.

Nonetheless, your associating the Tea Party with what happened in the Communist takeover of Cuba falls short of logic because of what you know to be the reality of this conservative uprising of every day people.

As has been stated before, there is no one 'behind' us.  There is no dark force among us.  Nor are there dark motives in our hearts.

There will be no tanks rolling into DC because of people like alicewonders, DC Patriot, Bigun and me, or the millions more just like us.

We believe in the Constitution (for real), and we believe in individual liberty, and not a pair of brutal brothers whose motives were treacherous.

Where you and I always fall apart is your habit of questioning my logic.

The fact that we may not agree on something does not translate to my logic being faulty any more than  yours being equally fauilty because I don't agree with you, or think the same way than you do.

As has been stated before, there is no one 'behind' us.  There is no dark force among us.  Nor are there dark motives in our hearts.

That's my problem. There's no cohesiveness to a movement that wants to somehow impact the direction of the nation. It's like a football team with great players taking the field with no coaching, no playbook and no quarterback.

I don't think that there will be tanks as a result of teh TEA Party. I don't think there will much of anything stemming from it BECAUSE there is no cohesiveness to it.

We believe in the Constitution (for real), and we believe in individual liberty.

Yep... that's what the Castro brothers's supporters said too.

This debate is futile.

I believe in those exact same things but I don't identify with whatever the TEA Party is.

I used to, but I no longer do.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Another point............ the Tea Party is based on information and the distribution of that information to every day Americans.

There is no parallel with the feelings of the Cuban people and the understanding of Tea Party people.

Again, you demean others.

There were no "feelings", there was the clear understanding of what the movement stood for, later betrayed.

If anyone has "feelings" dictating their actions, it would be those people (self-proclaimed TEA Party members) who believe that Palin or Cruz could beat Hillary in the next election.

[musiclady]

Again, you demean others.

There were no "feelings", there was the clear understanding of what the movement stood for, later betrayed.

If anyone has "feelings" dictating their actions, it would be those people (self-proclaimed TEA Party members) who believe that Palin or Cruz could beat Hillary in the next election.

I'm not demeaning you, Luis.  I'm here defending the people that YOU are demeaning.

And I find your logic faulty, and your parallel unsupportable.

The idea that there were "no feelings" involved in the support of the Castro brothers in Cuba is insupportable, as is the argument that the Tea Party is based solely on the "feelings" of those who think Sarah Palin could beat Hillary. (I don't personally know any of those people, btw).

You are clearly free to think and feel as you like, as am I.  But when you repeatedly diminish the experience and thought of a whole host of people because you don't like some of them, you are in error.

As DC has pointed out, the 'incohesiveness' of the Tea Party is one of its strengths.  There are no Castros behind it; no sinister forces.

And as long as you vote and participate in the process, it really doesn't matter a heck of a lot whether you identify with others who share the same values and are part of the Tea Party.

It just seems to me a waste of your time to spend so much of it belittling those who share your patriotism and conservatism and have the same goals.

[truth_seeker]

Instead of defending the Tea Party as it has devolved, it would be better to move to a new improved conservative movement.

A movement with a clear and singular focus: Winning elections, with superior candidates, clear campaign messages, etc.

Becuz what is left of the TP movement is perpetual rehash of Sarah Palin's rambling culture war victimhood skits, which play to just a narrow audience.

And I would like to see some financial disclosure by the professionals that use the label. Like Tea Party Express, and Tea Party Patriots, and Tea Party News Network, etc. Find out how much money is going into their personal pockets, versus into campaigns.

For example, Sal Russo's Tea Party Express (Sacramento) sends me several emails each week, each asking for donations, for separate purposes. My guess is that most stays in the pockets of the organization, not the stated target.

I watch the stuff posted on Facebook by TP organizations, and it is divisive. Borderline racist.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Instead of defending the Tea Party as it has devolved, it would be better to move to a new improved conservative movement.

A movement with a clear and singular focus: Winning elections, with superior candidates, clear campaign messages, etc.

Becuz what is left of the TP movement is perpetual rehash of Sarah Palin's rambling culture war victimhood skits, which play to just a narrow audience.

And I would like to see some financial disclosure by the professionals that use the label. Like Tea Party Express, and Tea Party Patriots, and Tea Party News Network, etc. Find out how much money is going into their personal pockets, versus into campaigns.

For example, Sal Russo's Tea Party Express (Sacramento) sends me several emails each week, each asking for donations, for separate purposes. My guess is that most stays in the pockets of the organization, not the stated target.

I watch the stuff posted on Facebook by TP organizations, and it is divisive. Borderline racist.

You're like a cool glass of water on a South Florida August day.

[Luis Gonzalez]

I'm not demeaning you, Luis.  I'm here defending the people that YOU are demeaning.

And I find your logic faulty, and your parallel unsupportable.

The idea that there were "no feelings" involved in the support of the Castro brothers in Cuba is insupportable, as is the argument that the Tea Party is based solely on the "feelings" of those who think Sarah Palin could beat Hillary. (I don't personally know any of those people, btw).

You are clearly free to think and feel as you like, as am I.  But when you repeatedly diminish the experience and thought of a whole host of people because you don't like some of them, you are in error.

As DC has pointed out, the 'incohesiveness' of the Tea Party is one of its strengths.  There are no Castros behind it; no sinister forces.

And as long as you vote and participate in the process, it really doesn't matter a heck of a lot whether you identify with others who share the same values and are part of the Tea Party.

It just seems to me a waste of your time to spend so much of it belittling those who share your patriotism and conservatism and have the same goals.

They're here, in this forum, posting daily and making that very argument.

[musiclady]

Instead of defending the Tea Party as it has devolved, it would be better to move to a new improved conservative movement.

A movement with a clear and singular focus: Winning elections, with superior candidates, clear campaign messages, etc.

Becuz what is left of the TP movement is perpetual rehash of Sarah Palin's rambling culture war victimhood skits, which play to just a narrow audience.

And I would like to see some financial disclosure by the professionals that use the label. Like Tea Party Express, and Tea Party Patriots, and Tea Party News Network, etc. Find out how much money is going into their personal pockets, versus into campaigns.

For example, Sal Russo's Tea Party Express (Sacramento) sends me several emails each week, each asking for donations, for separate purposes. My guess is that most stays in the pockets of the organization, not the stated target.

I watch the stuff posted on Facebook by TP organizations, and it is divisive. Borderline racist.

There's a lot of borderline racism everywhere, t_s, but it's not a function of the TP, but rather the human heart, and that's never going to be 'fixed' politically.

There's no question that there have been some who have taken advantage of the movement for their own financial gain.  Again, not the property of the TP, but a problem with human nature and true across the political spectrum.

Being wise about financial support is always important, but that doesn't mean that the principles espoused by the Tea Party are errant.

[musiclady]

They're here, in this forum, posting daily and making that very argument.

I guess I should have made my use of the word "personally" clearer.

I meant in those I know in real life.  Real people and not screen names.

I don't know a single person who thinks Sarah Palin can beat Hillary.

And if anyone says that here on this forum, I strongly disagree with them.