Author Topic: Mark Levin: It's time to defend the cops  (Read 815 times)

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Mark Levin: It's time to defend the cops
« on: November 25, 2014, 04:35:12 pm »
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2556631

Mark Levin: It's time to defend the cops
BY PAUL BEDARD | NOVEMBER 25, 2014 | 10:59 AM

Leading conservative talk radio host Mark Levin on Tuesday blasted the liberal media and President Obama’s team for the race riots in the wake of a St. Louis grand jury’s decision not to indict a white police officer for the killing of a black teen.

In a new post on his Facebook page, Levin blamed the “lies” told about Officer Darren Wilson’s shooting of Michael Brown and said the whole event was Brown’s fault after he stole cigars from a local Ferguson, Mo., store in North St. Louis County.

Levin, the voice of Constitutional conservatives and the Tea Party, wrote:

Quote
Ferguson burns and violence has been unleashed thanks to the reckless liberal media, the lawless administration (especially Eric Holder) exploiting the shooting to smear police departments across the nation, phony civil rights demagogues, race-baiting politicians, and radical hate groups.

The lies about why and how Officer Darrin [sic] Wilson shot Michael Brown started on day one and never ended. The indisputable facts are that Brown was shot because he assaulted a police officer, attempted to take the officer's pistol resulting in two close range gun shots in the police cruiser, and then turned around and charged the officer as he was being pursued. The entire event was precipitated by Brown earlier stealing cigars from a local store and assaulting the owner.

What we are witnessing now is the left's war on the civil society. It's time to speak out in defense of law enforcement and others trying to protect the community and uphold the rule law.
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Mark Levin: It's time to defend the cops
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2014, 04:39:35 pm »
Quote
It's time to speak out in defense of law enforcement and others trying to protect the community and uphold the rule law.

I agree, but it's not always easy with some of the shenanigans pulled by cops.  Still, they put their lives on the line daily, especially in black communities. 

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Oceander

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Re: Mark Levin: It's time to defend the cops
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2014, 04:44:05 pm »
Only when they truly deserve it.  In this case I think the cop deserved to be defended because he was clearly being scapegoated.  Generally speaking, however, they have to earn it first.

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Re: Mark Levin: It's time to defend the cops
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2014, 04:52:31 pm »
I agree, but it's not always easy with some of the shenanigans pulled by cops.  Still, they put their lives on the line daily, especially in black communities.

Cops are human beings with a tough job to do and we ask them to do it with their hands mostly tied behind their backs!  I wouldn't want their job on a plate but I do respect and admire those who are willing to take it on.

I also freely acknowledge that there are some bad apples in every profession.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Mark Levin: It's time to defend the cops
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2014, 04:54:33 pm »
Cops are human beings with a tough job to do and we ask them to do it with their hands mostly tied behind their backs!  I wouldn't want their job on a plate but I do respect and admire those who are willing to take it on.

I also freely acknowledge that there are some bad apples in every profession.

Agreed.  And it's only going to get worse for cops. 
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Re: Mark Levin: It's time to defend the cops
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2014, 04:57:57 pm »
Agreed.  And it's only going to get worse for cops.

Unfortunately I believe that to be true!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Oceander

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Re: Mark Levin: It's time to defend the cops
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2014, 05:03:14 pm »
The basic problem is that the training cops receive is utterly inadequate to the raw power they have over peoples' lives and their immunity from prosecution for their actions.  With great power comes great responsibility, but that responsibility is not innate and must be inculcated through rigorous training and robust institutional standards of the highest order.  The thin blue line should be the line that protects the good cops from the bad, not the other way 'round.

This is somewhat similar to the basic issue of the military's involvement in domestic political issues.  The US military can be trusted to not interfere in domestic political issues the way that the military in too many other countries does, and that is, I think, in large part because of the deep, deep institutional beliefs in the military that are ground into the officers.

In short, the military has a sense of responsibility adequate to restrain the abuse of its power; most civilian police forces do not.

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Mark Levin: It's time to defend the cops
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2014, 05:34:59 pm »
The basic problem is that the training cops receive is utterly inadequate to the raw power they have over peoples' lives and their immunity from prosecution for their actions.  With great power comes great responsibility, but that responsibility is not innate and must be inculcated through rigorous training and robust institutional standards of the highest order.  The thin blue line should be the line that protects the good cops from the bad, not the other way 'round.

This is somewhat similar to the basic issue of the military's involvement in domestic political issues.  The US military can be trusted to not interfere in domestic political issues the way that the military in too many other countries does, and that is, I think, in large part because of the deep, deep institutional beliefs in the military that are ground into the officers.

In short, the military has a sense of responsibility adequate to restrain the abuse of its power; most civilian police forces do not.

The need for better police training and oversight is essential.  Obviously some jurisdictions are better than others.  Some police departments operate with very weak civilian oversight.  With the military of course, the National Command Authority keeps the military under the authority of the President and Sec-Def.  And of course the Posse Comitatus Act keeps the federal military out of domestic civilian issues.

But the bad cops need to be vigorously prosecuted, and that's often not done, especially given the necessary relationship between police and prosecutors.
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Oceander

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Re: Mark Levin: It's time to defend the cops
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2014, 06:15:08 pm »
The need for better police training and oversight is essential.  Obviously some jurisdictions are better than others.  Some police departments operate with very weak civilian oversight.  With the military of course, the National Command Authority keeps the military under the authority of the President and Sec-Def.  And of course the Posse Comitatus Act keeps the federal military out of domestic civilian issues.

But the bad cops need to be vigorously prosecuted, and that's often not done, especially given the necessary relationship between police and prosecutors.

Unfortunately, the prosecutors can be just as bad, and just as immune from the consequences of abusing their power.  Michael Vecchione in Brooklyn is a poster child for that.

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Mark Levin: It's time to defend the cops
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2014, 09:24:22 pm »
Unfortunately, the prosecutors can be just as bad, and just as immune from the consequences of abusing their power.  Michael Vecchione in Brooklyn is a poster child for that.

No doubt.  They are all in positions of power, and as such, while not necessarily prone, are at least subject to abuse of power.  Not sure that applies to Vecchione necessarily, and I guess he's making more money now than he did as a prosecutor.  Of course New Yorkers have been following this one closely.  On the other side of it, many prosecutors cut deals simply to close a case and get the numbers up.  Which one is worse?
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Oceander

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Re: Mark Levin: It's time to defend the cops
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2014, 09:39:53 pm »
No doubt.  They are all in positions of power, and as such, while not necessarily prone, are at least subject to abuse of power.  Not sure that applies to Vecchione necessarily, and I guess he's making more money now than he did as a prosecutor.  Of course New Yorkers have been following this one closely.  On the other side of it, many prosecutors cut deals simply to close a case and get the numbers up.  Which one is worse?

I prefer to take the view that Jefferson's adage about it being better to let ten guilty men go free than to imprison one innocent man argues for a principle of lenity and that exercising discretion to cut a deal on a lesser charge is a species of lenity and not an abuse of a prosecutor's power.  The prosecutor's duty is not to represent or advocate for the alleged victim - though many mistakenly do - but to represent the public as a whole, which public includes the accused as well as everyone else.  The prosecutor's duty is to "do justice" and, as s/he is not the advocate for the alleged victim, it is not the prosecutor's duty to "do justice" for the alleged victim, it is to "do justice" for the public at large, including the accused.  In that instance, if it is the prosecutor's judgment that the case is really not worth pursuing, then cutting a deal and moving on is doing a measure of justice to the public at large and to the accused, precisely the people to whom that duty is owed.  It seems to me that the presumption of innocence and the requirement that proof be beyond a reasonable doubt further buttresses this view, inasmuch as they are for the benefit of the accused and, sometimes, work to the detriment of the alleged victim if the prosecutor simply cannot prove the case against the accused beyond a reasonable doubt.

In short, the prosecutor's duty to do justice, insofar as it relates to a particular individual, is a duty to do justice to/for the accused, not the alleged victim, which should mean cutting deals when the circumstances indicate, even if the alleged victim feels otherwise.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2014, 09:43:27 pm by Oceander »

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Mark Levin: It's time to defend the cops
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2014, 01:57:28 pm »
I prefer to take the view that Jefferson's adage about it being better to let ten guilty men go free than to imprison one innocent man argues for a principle of lenity and that exercising discretion to cut a deal on a lesser charge is a species of lenity and not an abuse of a prosecutor's power.  The prosecutor's duty is not to represent or advocate for the alleged victim - though many mistakenly do - but to represent the public as a whole, which public includes the accused as well as everyone else.  The prosecutor's duty is to "do justice" and, as s/he is not the advocate for the alleged victim, it is not the prosecutor's duty to "do justice" for the alleged victim, it is to "do justice" for the public at large, including the accused.  In that instance, if it is the prosecutor's judgment that the case is really not worth pursuing, then cutting a deal and moving on is doing a measure of justice to the public at large and to the accused, precisely the people to whom that duty is owed.  It seems to me that the presumption of innocence and the requirement that proof be beyond a reasonable doubt further buttresses this view, inasmuch as they are for the benefit of the accused and, sometimes, work to the detriment of the alleged victim if the prosecutor simply cannot prove the case against the accused beyond a reasonable doubt.

In short, the prosecutor's duty to do justice, insofar as it relates to a particular individual, is a duty to do justice to/for the accused, not the alleged victim, which should mean cutting deals when the circumstances indicate, even if the alleged victim feels otherwise.

I guess my understanding was for the prosecutor to charge a GJ to see if any probable cause existed to charge the subject, not whether there was also exculpatory evidence.  Wouldn't conflicting evidence be better evaluated by a jury during a subsequent trial?  It sounded to me as if the GJ was actually trying the case.  I'm not an attorney (obviously), and maybe you can clarify.
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