Author Topic: 'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says  (Read 5278 times)

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Offline mystery-ak

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'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says
« on: November 23, 2014, 08:00:04 pm »
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/225130-shame-on-us-for-not-passing-immigration-reform-gop-lawmaker

November 23, 2014, 11:14 am
'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says
By Rebecca Shabad

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) on Sunday said Republicans are partially responsible for not passing comprehensive immigration reform.

“Shame on us as Republicans for having a body that cannot generate a solution to an issue that’s national security, that’s cultural, that’s economic,” Graham said on CNN’s “State of the Union.”

The Senate has passed an immigration bill three times, Graham said, adding that he “loves” his GOP colleagues in the House.

“I’m close to the people in the House, but I’m disappointed in my party. Are we still the party of self-deportation?” he asked.
President Obama in a separate interview Sunday blamed Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) for not taking up legislation the Senate passed in 2013 on immigration and still urges Congress to pass a bill on the issue.

“Is it the position of the Republican Party that the 11 million must be driven out?  I have never been in that camp as being practical.  I am in the camp of securing our borders first, fixing a broken legal immigration, have an E-Verify program so you can't cheat,” Graham added.

Obama has made a “political decision” to issue his own executive actions on immigration, said Graham, who called the new orders unconstitutional.

“He made a political decision to try to divide the Republican Party,” he said, “and take the office of the presidency to a level no one else has gone.”
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Re: 'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2014, 11:09:54 pm »
Will someone please explain what's so wrong with existing laws that they cannot possibly be enforced and, instead, have to be "reformed"?
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: 'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2014, 11:55:29 pm »
Will someone please explain what's so wrong with existing laws that they cannot possibly be enforced and, instead, have to be "reformed"?

If the solution to the problem was as simple as enforcing existing laws, don't you think that the Reagan administration would have chosen that option over amnesty?

"Enforce existing laws" is not a solution at this point.

It's a slogan.
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Re: 'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2014, 12:15:21 am »
It was a sincere question, not a slogan. What about current law must be reformed?
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Offline massadvj

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Re: 'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2014, 12:16:59 am »
If the solution to the problem was as simple as enforcing existing laws, don't you think that the Reagan administration would have chosen that option over amnesty?

"Enforce existing laws" is not a solution at this point.

It's a slogan.

Yes, but the existing laws are in place as a result of Reagan's amnesty.  They made the laws stricter, but there was no enforcement, and that made the law ludicrous.  Meanwhile, Reagan's amnesty set a precedent that let everyone in Latin America know that the USA was going to be the breadbasket of the hemisphere.

Absolutely nothing was learned from that experience.

I have always maintained that our problem is not immigration, but socialism.  If we were a free market, capitalist system we could easily accommodate all the immigrants who wanted to come here and work hard.  Furthermore, the federal government has no business dictating to the country who may be employed and who may not.  It is a de facto usurpation of property rights.

The problem I have with immigration is that the post-modern immigrant is a savvy manipulator of American liberalism who takes far more from the country than he contributes.

Any immigration "reform" must eliminate all social spending on immigrants, tighten voter ID laws to prove citizenship in order to vote, and encourage an open and free labor exchange with Mexico.  Otherwise we are just importing votes for Democrats instead of doing what is right.

I do not take issue with a "path to citizenship" but I do take issue with La Raza and other Hispanic activist groups systematically stuffing ballot boxes with illegal votes, as they routinely do in the Southwest. 

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: 'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2014, 12:49:07 am »
Luis wrote:
[[ "Enforce existing laws" is not a solution at this point.  ]]

The only "solution" at this point would be to build an Israeli-style "border barrier" that would effectively close off the southern border.

Failing to do that, how many millions -- or TENS of millions -- more are going to be coming?

If they can do this there, against an enemy that is trying to kill them, we can do it here:



Otherwise, your version of "a solution" is going to result in this:


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Re: 'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2014, 12:57:07 am »




SOLUTION:  Fit all illegal aliens with an electronic explosive collar...like Invisible Fence for our pets.  Only instead of a slight electric shock, it blows their head off.  There was a movie where this was actually used, but I can't remember it.



Of course I'm being sarcastic.  If they're here, have a job, an address...let they stay.  Start taxing them.  LOL!
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Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: 'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2014, 01:07:43 am »
Yes, but the existing laws are in place as a result of Reagan's amnesty.  They made the laws stricter, but there was no enforcement, and that made the law ludicrous.  Meanwhile, Reagan's amnesty set a precedent that let everyone in Latin America know that the USA was going to be the breadbasket of the hemisphere.

Absolutely nothing was learned from that experience.

Sure there was.  We learned the American public does not have the stomach to watch 20 million of these...



Want to keep out illegals?  All we need to do is mine the border.  Kill a few invader children.  Of course the voters will replace us with rats who promise reparations to the victims of our new found concern for a problem that has existed since our founding.
Quote
I have always maintained that our problem is not immigration, but socialism.
Agreed!  So let us amnesty the parents of dreamers and get to work fixing the socialism.
Quote
If we were a free market, capitalist system we could easily accommodate all the immigrants who wanted to come here and work hard.  Furthermore, the federal government has no business dictating to the country who may be employed and who may not.  It is a de facto usurpation of property rights.

The problem I have with immigration is that the post-modern immigrant is a savvy manipulator of American liberalism who takes far more from the country than he contributes.

Any immigration "reform" must eliminate all social spending on immigrants, tighten voter ID laws to prove citizenship in order to vote, and encourage an open and free labor exchange with Mexico.  Otherwise we are just importing votes for Democrats instead of doing what is right.

I do not take issue with a "path to citizenship" but I do take issue with La Raza and other Hispanic activist groups systematically stuffing ballot boxes with illegal votes, as they routinely do in the Southwest.
Agreed.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: 'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2014, 01:11:54 am »
SOLUTION:  Fit all illegal aliens with an electronic explosive collar...like Invisible Fence for our pets.  Only instead of a slight electric shock, it blows their head off.  There was a movie where this was actually used, but I can't remember it.
It was "The Running Man."

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Re: 'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2014, 01:27:08 am »
It was "The Running Man."

Maybe...not sure. 

The one I'm thinking of was more action and not a black comedy like The Running Man.  But it was a prison camp of the future.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: 'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2014, 01:34:03 am »
Will someone please explain what's so wrong with existing laws that they cannot possibly be enforced and, instead, have to be "reformed"?

I want to add another question to yours.

If the executive  can refuse to enforce existing laws, or parts of laws that he doesn't like, what makes anyone think that a new law would make any difference?
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

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Re: 'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2014, 01:55:13 am »
I want to add another question to yours.

If the executive  can refuse to enforce existing laws, or parts of laws that he doesn't like, what makes anyone think that a new law would make any difference?

That was the reason Boehner said publicly many times....we can't trust the President to enforce ALL aspects of the bill.  Ergo...we're back in 1986 all over again.  So now they're going to send him a good one come the beginning of the year, and watch him veto it.

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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: 'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2014, 02:39:01 am »
I want to add another question to yours.

If the executive  can refuse to enforce existing laws, or parts of laws that he doesn't like, what makes anyone think that a new law would make any difference?

Both good questions.  As to the latter one, nothing other than Congress or the courts can prevent an executive from failing to enforce any law.  But the more loopholes in a law, the more an overly zealous president or head of an agency can take advantage. 

Some of the areas a better law could address include better clarity and prioritization of border security responsibilities, which includes certification by border governors, but recognizing there is no perfect border security.  Creation of a fraud-proof id system will go a long way, as will much stronger employer sanctions for hiring illegals.  Chain migration and diversity quotas and the lottery have to end.  The rules for legal immigration have to be cleaned up by allowing work and resident visas to only those who meet the needs of this Nation in terms of education and experience.  Foreign exchange student visas is a mess.  English proficiency must be mandatory after a period of time.  State cooperation should be welcomed, and sanctuary cities must be penalized and enforcement against them by federal law.  All waivers must be reported to Congress within a reasonable amount of time.  Illegals who are to be considered for future naturalization must have no serious felony record, no past or present gang membership, be holding a job, pay a series of fines and penalties and any back taxes owed, agree to no use of welfare, and have been in the US steadily for at least a reasonable period of time.

Multiple border violations by an individual must be addressed, as this is a serious problem. 

Each waiver and loophole in the current laws must be addressed to either end them or require the executive to provide Congress with each use.

And we must have the appropriations to go after gang members, drug and human traffickers, as well as fraudulent use of the system by those selling such services.

That would be a start.
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Re: 'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2014, 02:47:03 am »
I want to add another question to yours.

If the executive  can refuse to enforce existing laws, or parts of laws that he doesn't like, what makes anyone think that a new law would make any difference?


Because repetition is one of the best forms of education, and if Obuttocks continues to ignore or veto reasonable, adult immigration reform bills passed by Congress, then it becomes more and more obvious that it is he, and the democrats, who are the problem, not the GOP.

Offline Bigun

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Re: 'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2014, 03:06:02 am »
Both good questions.  As to the latter one, nothing other than Congress or the courts can prevent an executive from failing to enforce any law.  But the more loopholes in a law, the more an overly zealous president or head of an agency can take advantage. 

Some of the areas a better law could address include better clarity and prioritization of border security responsibilities, which includes certification by border governors, but recognizing there is no perfect border security.  Creation of a fraud-proof id system will go a long way, as will much stronger employer sanctions for hiring illegals.  Chain migration and diversity quotas and the lottery have to end.  The rules for legal immigration have to be cleaned up by allowing work and resident visas to only those who meet the needs of this Nation in terms of education and experience.  Foreign exchange student visas is a mess.  English proficiency must be mandatory after a period of time.  State cooperation should be welcomed, and sanctuary cities must be penalized and enforcement against them by federal law.  All waivers must be reported to Congress within a reasonable amount of time.  Illegals who are to be considered for future naturalization must have no serious felony record, no past or present gang membership, be holding a job, pay a series of fines and penalties and any back taxes owed, agree to no use of welfare, and have been in the US steadily for at least a reasonable period of time.

Multiple border violations by an individual must be addressed, as this is a serious problem. 

Each waiver and loophole in the current laws must be addressed to either end them or require the executive to provide Congress with each use.

And we must have the appropriations to go after gang members, drug and human traffickers, as well as fraudulent use of the system by those selling such services.

That would be a start.

There is much in that I would agree with but I'll make you a sizable wager that neither the president nor the democrats in congress will even consider anything like it. And the Chamber of Commerce would go ballistic!
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 03:07:16 am by Bigun »
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: 'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2014, 03:10:49 am »
There is much in that I would agree with but I'll make you a sizable wager that neither the president nor the democrats in congress will even consider anything like it. And the Chamber of Commerce would go ballistic!

I won't take that bet!  But I would like to see as much of that as possible.  After Obama's potentially extra-legal shenanigan with immigration, Republicans won't do much on this, something no doubt Obama was hoping for.  Maybe tax reform?  ^-^
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Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: 'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2014, 03:24:07 am »
That was the reason Boehner said publicly many times....we can't trust the President to enforce ALL aspects of the bill.  Ergo...we're back in 1986 all over again.  So now they're going to send him a good one come the beginning of the year, and watch him veto it.
One President refused to enforce and actually violated the Boland Amendment and the Arms Export Control Act.  He was not impeached.

You send Obama a realistic and rational bill and he will sign it, or he will get closer to impeachment.  Obama must work with the GOP or nothing gets done.

Obama's executive action is a side show.  The air was just as sweet today as it was last Thursday despite the executive order which changes nothing.  ICE will still deport the criminal illegals and ignore illegal families living and working here.  Same as it ever was.

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Re: 'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2014, 03:34:17 am »
One President refused to enforce and actually violated the Boland Amendment and the Arms Export Control Act.  He was not impeached.

You send Obama a realistic and rational bill and he will sign it, or he will get closer to impeachment.  Obama must work with the GOP or nothing gets done.

Obama's executive action is a side show.  The air was just as sweet today as it was last Thursday despite the executive order which changes nothing.  ICE will still deport the criminal illegals and ignore illegal families living and working here.  Same as it ever was.

Agreed.  Now is the time to act like adults - which does not mean giving up one's political goals or policies - and set Obama up to either force some compromise or demonstrate that it is he, not the GOP, not Congress, who is the obstructionist and who is acting outside the law.

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Re: 'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2014, 03:36:23 am »
I won't take that bet!  But I would like to see as much of that as possible.  After Obama's potentially extra-legal shenanigan with immigration, Republicans won't do much on this, something no doubt Obama was hoping for.  Maybe tax reform?  ^-^

In saner times, tax reform should be on the table again because it's been about long enough since the last reform.  From the 1939 code it took 15 years to get the 1954 code and from there it took 32 years to get the 1986 code.  It's now 2014, so it's been 28 years since the 1986 code, and therefore we're a little overdue for the start of serious tax reform discussions.

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: 'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2014, 03:45:19 am »
In saner times, tax reform should be on the table again because it's been about long enough since the last reform.  From the 1939 code it took 15 years to get the 1954 code and from there it took 32 years to get the 1986 code.  It's now 2014, so it's been 28 years since the 1986 code, and therefore we're a little overdue for the start of serious tax reform discussions.

Indeed!
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Offline 240B

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Re: 'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2014, 04:00:57 am »
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

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Re: 'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2014, 04:06:30 am »
My mistake guys. I meant to post this one. Sorry...
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1wg1DNHbNU
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: 'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2014, 05:14:30 am »
One President refused to enforce and actually violated the Boland Amendment and the Arms Export Control Act.  He was not impeached.

You send Obama a realistic and rational bill and he will sign it, or he will get closer to impeachment.  Obama must work with the GOP or nothing gets done.

Obama's executive action is a side show.  The air was just as sweet today as it was last Thursday despite the executive order which changes nothing.  ICE will still deport the criminal illegals and ignore illegal families living and working here.  Same as it ever was.

Yep.
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: 'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2014, 05:16:06 am »

I do not take issue with a "path to citizenship" but I do take issue with La Raza and other Hispanic activist groups systematically stuffing ballot boxes with illegal votes, as they routinely do in the Southwest.

It's a time-honored American tradition, and no one has cleans hands.
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: 'Shame on us' for not passing immigration reform, Graham says
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2014, 05:17:13 am »
It was a sincere question, not a slogan. What about current law must be reformed?

"Reform" is a political euphemism for "change".
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx