Things Fall Apart (Pat Buchanan)

[mountaineer]

Darn, I wish this thread hadn't veered onto a discussion of the Civil War instead of what Buchanan wrote.

[Lando Lincoln]

Darn, I wish this thread hadn't veered onto a discussion of the Civil War instead of what Buchanan wrote.

Good point mountaineer!  Good point!  I'm back on track!

Buchanan is right - in so many respects, we are but a shell of what we once were.

[Bigun]

Well if you can't believe Karl Marx, who can you believe?   

Truth is truth regardless!

[MACVSOG68]

Truth is truth regardless!

LOL.  Someone told me recently here that if I agreed with Obama on anything that proved I was a liberal.   

[Bigun]

LOL.  Someone told me recently here that if I agreed with Obama on anything that proved I was a liberal.   

Wasn't me! 


Although I can't recall a thing Obama has said that I would agree with but I'm sure he may have said something somewhere that I'm unaware of that I might agree with. 

[Bigun]

Here is an interesting article which argues that tariffs were at the heart of the original conflict:

Protective Tariffs: The Primary Cause of the Civil War

As for me, I have always held that while slavery was at the center of the conflict.  In truth, it was one of many. 

The "liberal" North resented the (relatively speaking, few) prosperous landowners of the South - which was exacerbated by knowing that the individual prosperity was borne from slave labor.  Everyone knew intuitively, intellectually that the peculiar institution could not, would not survive in perpetuity. 

Meanwhile, the South seethed over the manufacturing prowess of the North - and they felt they paid too much for the goods from the North.

If slavery was not the full cause of the War, it was certainly what sustained it.  By the time of Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation in 1863, it WAS the War.  It was the War of a way of life.  One that needed to die but refused to do so.

Excellent article Lando!

Thanks for posting it.

[Lando Lincoln]

Excellent article Lando!

Thanks for posting it.

I wish I would proofread my writing better.

[MACVSOG68]

I wish I would proofread my writing better.

Lando, I had a response all written up, but when someone said we were off track, I didn't post it.  Maybe another time.  Don't want to hijack the thread...but it's so tempting.   

[Lando Lincoln]

Lando, I had a response all written up, but when someone said we were off track, I didn't post it.  Maybe another time.  Don't want to hijack the thread...but it's so tempting.   

Dang MAC... I always enjoy and learn from your posts.  We were guilty of thread hijacking, tho.  Maybe a new thread?

[MACVSOG68]

Dang MAC... I always enjoy and learn from your posts.  We were guilty of thread hijacking, tho.  Maybe a new thread?

You're too kind Lando, but yeah this wasn't the right thread.  One will be along we can jump into and do a little wrestling.  The debate hasn't died in 150+ years, lol.

[aligncare]

Thirty two years ago, when the hideous Roe v Wade passed, I think there were many women who believed the lie that their baby wasn't a baby, but now, I completely agree.  Women know they are killing their child, and choose to do so anyway.

And you are also right that the majority do it for convenience (that includes financial convenience).

Where I disagree is your statement that "few feel remorse."  Most don't admit it publicly, but I believe that all but the conscience-seared feel remorse.  There is a lot of Christian counseling dealing with women who very much feel guilt (true guilt)  that they flushed their babies down the toilet.   They thought they had solved their problem, but in dealing with the emotional, physical and psychological repercussions,  they find out otherwise.

They've created a problem far worse.

I'm humbled by your well presented counterpoint. And sadly it probably reflects the truth of what many women experience after making such a desperate, horrible decision.

[olde north church]

That might be an interesting read.

The Lincoln thing was the easy part, I think something like 7 out of 9 conspirators were Catholic.  The Civil War?  Think about the only country on the Americas that was not under some sort of control of the Roman Catholic church.  Even Quebec, as Canada had not formed some independent status until 1869.

[mountaineer]

Thread hijacking is not a mortal sin. Sorry, didn't mean to come off like a scold! 

Although I can't recall a thing Obama has said that I would agree with but I'm sure he may have said something somewhere that I'm unaware of that I might agree with. 

Bigun, if Barry O. said it was a good day for golf, I'd still check the forecast for myself!

[MACVSOG68]

The Lincoln thing was the easy part, I think something like 7 out of 9 conspirators were Catholic.  The Civil War?  Think about the only country on the Americas that was not under some sort of control of the Roman Catholic church.  Even Quebec, as Canada had not formed some independent status until 1869.

Well, I did do a little reading on the subject, and yes, several of the conspirators were Catholic, though the actual assassin was said to be less than strong in his beliefs, and may not have even been a Catholic.  I couldn't find any actual ties to the Jesuits, just conjecture.  There are several theories out there along with the Catholic one, so like Kennedy, it will probably remain fodder for the theorists. 

[MACVSOG68]

Thread hijacking is not a mortal sin. Sorry, didn't mean to come off like a scold! 
 

Nonsense.  It was a nicely worded reminder.   

[Bigun]

Nonsense.  It was a nicely worded reminder.   

I absolutely agree!

[Bigun]

Thread hijacking is not a mortal sin. Sorry, didn't mean to come off like a scold! 
Bigun, if Barry O. said it was a good day for golf, I'd still check the forecast for myself!

AMEN!!!