Author Topic: Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?  (Read 1455 times)

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rangerrebew

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Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?
« on: October 24, 2014, 12:50:40 pm »

Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?

Posted on October 23, 2014 by Michael Minkoff — 45 Comments   
 
Some economists are recommending that the federal government raise marginal tax rates to 90% on 1 percenters, the 1% of Americans who make hugely “unequal” sums of money a year.

Marginal tax rates are taxes on amounts above a certain amount. So a 90% tax rate wouldn’t liquidate 1 percenters entirely. It would just mean they paid a 90% tax on any amount over $406,750. So 1 percenters would pay a “normal” tax rate on any income they made under a certain amount. For instance, if someone made $406,751 in a year, a 90% marginal tax rate would mean they paid ninety cents of their extra dollar in taxes.

It’s hard to understand why economists don’t get that this would seriously discourage anyone from having aspirations to become one of the 1 percenters. If you have a 90% tax on any money made over a certain amount, it seems to me that no one would be trying to make more than that amount, right? Apparently, the economists don’t get this:


The paper assumes that tax rates won’t stop a future Bill Gates from wanting to start Microsoft. Instead, what it finds is that labor supply among the 1 percent would decline — translation, they would work a little less — but it “does not collapse.” That’s because of who the authors assume makes up the top income bracket: celebrities, sports stars, and entrepreneurs — people with innate talents that are hugely rewarding, but only for a short period of time. They only have a few years to use their skills to make most of the money they will ever make. High tax rates don’t lessen their degree of desire to be productive, the authors said.

Krueger described the phenomenon like this: “How much less hard would LeBron James play basketball if he were taxed at a much higher rate? The answer is not much. James knows he only has five years,” or so of peak earning potential, Krueger said, and so he will work to make as much as he can during that time. If high income tax rates robbed the would-be 1 percent of their stick-to-itiveness, the paper’s conclusions would change.
 

Ummm. If LeBron James basically couldn’t use any of the income he made over a certain amount, don’t you think that would affect how he negotiated his salary? Why would he try to get more than $406,750 a year if any excess amount is basically useless to him? And if he has only five years of peak productivity, you have basically stolen everything from him. He needs those five years of high income to fund the rest of his otherwise unproductive life, right?

This paper is seriously the stupidest thing ever. It is always a bad idea to penalize people for wanting to make more money. Would a 90% marginal tax rate basically destroy 1 percenters? Yes. But it’s hard to say how that would greatly benefit anyone else.

Read more at http://lastresistance.com/8074/economists-recommend-tax-rate-90-1-percenters/#y7R0glyO3FxfVdiA.99

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2014, 01:09:45 pm »
The paper assumes that tax rates won’t stop a future Bill Gates from wanting to start Microsoft. Instead, what it finds is that labor supply among the 1 percent would decline — translation, they would work a little less — but it “does not collapse.”

Yeah, that's it.  We want our government to punish the most successful and hardest working members of society.

We want fewer of those people working less, not more of them working harder...     /s


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Offline swpa_mom

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Re: Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2014, 02:10:46 pm »
I have a better idea.  Let's start with a voluntary contribution of 90% on all of the liberals who think they SHOULD pay that much.  No deductions, just a straight 90% tax.   I'm so tired of the liberal hypocrisy on just about everything.

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Re: Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2014, 02:35:22 pm »
I have a better idea.  Let's start with a voluntary contribution of 90% on all of the liberals who think they SHOULD pay that much.  No deductions, just a straight 90% tax.   I'm so tired of the liberal hypocrisy on just about everything.

Unfortunately most of the people you speak of have arranged their affairs in such a way that they have little to no "income".
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2014, 04:34:01 pm »
Unfortunately most of the people you speak of have arranged their affairs in such a way that they have little to no "income".

They already have their wealth, so they don't have a lot of need for "taxable income."  A 90% marginal rate would simple lock  "the 99%" people into their current level of wealth, and make it easier for "the 1%" to stay on the top of the hill.

This is the biggest reason I agree with you about eliminating the income tax entirely.  A tax on income is the single greatest obstruction to mobility.  A 90% marginal rate would be the ultimate tool to keep the riff-raff out of the country clubs.

"Economists" who tout a 90% marginal rate as a way to "help the little guy" at the expense of "the rich" are either stupid or lying, and I'm usually inclined to go with the latter (although there will always be a few Paul Krugmans around to drag the intelligence bell-curve to the left).
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2014, 04:35:55 pm »
They already have their wealth, so they don't have a lot of need for "taxable income."  A 90% marginal rate would simple lock  "the 99%" people into their current level of wealth, and make it easier for "the 1%" to stay on the top of the hill.

This is the biggest reason I agree with you about eliminating the income tax entirely.  A tax on income is the single greatest obstruction to mobility.  A 90% marginal rate would be the ultimate tool to keep the riff-raff out of the country clubs.

"Economists" who tout a 90% marginal rate as a way to "help the little guy" at the expense of "the rich" are either stupid or lying, and I'm usually inclined to go with the latter (although there will always be a few Paul Krugmans around to drag the intelligence bell-curve to the left).

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"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2014, 05:17:29 pm »
The USA is losing competency. We have forgotten lessons learned just a few decades ago.

When Sweden had 90%+ marginal rates, the rich left. Remember Bjorn Borg, when he was the top tennis player? He  moved to Monte Carlo, I remember. Similar for UK stars, who left for tax reasons.

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Re: Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2014, 05:20:54 pm »
The USA is losing competency. We have forgotten lessons learned just a few decades ago.

When Sweden had 90%+ marginal rates, the rich left. Remember Bjorn Borg, when he was the top tennis player? He  moved to Monte Carlo, I remember. Similar for UK stars, who left for tax reasons.

It's happening here at an alarming rate!

http://actionamerica.org/taxecon/ticktick.shtml

"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2014, 08:47:42 pm »
The USA is losing competency. We have forgotten lessons learned just a few decades ago.

When Sweden had 90%+ marginal rates, the rich left. Remember Bjorn Borg, when he was the top tennis player? He  moved to Monte Carlo, I remember. Similar for UK stars, who left for tax reasons.
It's not so much that I'm concerned with. The rich will always seek small, wealthy nations with little need for a welfare state to stash their cash. A massive empire like the United States is always going to be at a disadvantage in that regard.

My concern with such a confiscatory marginal tax rate is stability. There are naturally more wealthy people, and they are each generally individually wealthier as well, during good economic times, which causes spikes in tax revenue during booms—but in return, when the economy sours, that pushes more people off the tax rolls and causes deficits to spike. The whole idea of progressive income tax works OK for Keynesian economics (spend to deficit in hard times, save to pay off the deficit in better ones), the current amount of spending is too high for taxes to cover it even in the good times.

If they want a steady, reliable revenue source, the government should stop looking to the rich and start targeting those who aren't paying any income taxes now.
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Re: Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2014, 10:46:58 pm »
If they want a steady, reliable revenue source, the government should stop looking to the rich and start targeting those who aren't paying any income taxes now.

The problem with that is there are a lot more people not paying than there are who pay a lot.  As a result, any attempts to do as you suggest will result in immediate expulsion from the House by the mob called "voters."

When you rob Peter to pay Paul, you can always count on Paul's vote.
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Re: Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2014, 02:28:23 am »
You could take EVERYTHING all the billionaires own in the U.S. and you'd fund the budget for maybe a year. All the millionaires, maybe 4. Down to 250K, maybe 7, then there'd be rich no more.

7 years, whoop-de-doo, that's only slightly longer than Foolsucka has been in office.
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Re: Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2014, 02:56:46 am »
You could take EVERYTHING all the billionaires own in the U.S. and you'd fund the budget for maybe a year. All the millionaires, maybe 4. Down to 250K, maybe 7, then there'd be rich no more.

7 years, whoop-de-doo, that's only slightly longer than Foolsucka has been in office.

Your point is well taken but taking everything they own is a very different thing than taking 90% of their income!

They don't care if you do the latter because they make sure they don't have anything that falls into the category of "income"!

We need to rid ourselves of the income tax entirely and go to a point of retail sale only sales tax as described in HR25/S122 currently before both houses of congress.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2014, 01:24:45 pm »
Basically it's an illustrated way of saying that you can take all that you want from the rich, it's never going to fund the budget for very long. We can tax as much as we want, but until we control spending, we'll be chasing unicorns. Our deficits are too big right now to plug them with higher taxes, no matter how much we take.
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Re: Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2014, 04:34:50 pm »
Basically it's an illustrated way of saying that you can take all that you want from the rich, it's never going to fund the budget for very long. We can tax as much as we want, but until we control spending, we'll be chasing unicorns. Our deficits are too big right now to plug them with higher taxes, no matter how much we take.

Again I basically agree with what you have said but also hold that the METHOD of taxation is a hugely important factor in the equation.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline xfreeper

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Re: Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2014, 12:08:15 am »
Yeah, that's it.  We want our government to punish the most successful and hardest working members of society.

We want fewer of those people working less, not more of them working harder...     /s

Unfortunately, those that have been successful at accumulating massive amounts of wealth can not be assumed to be the hardest working nor the most productive. The system is now so corrupted, tweaked and minipulated and distorted that there is no telling about anything. How we get to where we probably need to be from where we are I suspect is impossible at this point. Tax policy, economic policy, regulation....its all a hopeless clusterf*** at this point bought to you mainly by corrupt politicians and their cronies. How it all gets fixed before a crash, burn and revolution is not imaginable to me
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 12:09:09 am by xfreeper »

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2014, 12:35:01 am »
Unfortunately, those that have been successful at accumulating massive amounts of wealth can not be assumed to be the hardest working nor the most productive. The system is now so corrupted, tweaked and minipulated and distorted that there is no telling about anything. How we get to where we probably need to be from where we are I suspect is impossible at this point. Tax policy, economic policy, regulation....its all a hopeless clusterf*** at this point bought to you mainly by corrupt politicians and their cronies. How it all gets fixed before a crash, burn and revolution is not imaginable to me

It's going to be difficult to slow down the ship of state, let alone turning it back around.  The biggest problem IMHO isn't our tax policy per se, but the growth of government regulation at all levels, not just the fed.  Some of it is necessary and much of it isn't.  Spending is of course a part of that, which leads to the massive debt that we are accumulating at (thankfully) a slower rate now than in the past few years.  But that brings us back to how we should reduce and ultimately eliminate that debt, and ultimately back to tax policy.  Do we cut taxes in hopes of stimulating the economy thus bringing in more taxes?  Or do we increase taxes in hopes of bringing in more?

The only serious attempt at looking at the debt was the Simpson/Bowles Commission.  That was four years ago.  The only thing it accomplished was losing a few more trees.

So you're probably right.  It's all unfixable, mainly because both political parties are intransigent in their willingness to sit down and try to fix it.  And if there's to be a revolution, it could happen because a lot of people agree with your first sentence.
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Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2014, 12:46:54 am »
Unfortunately, those that have been successful at accumulating massive amounts of wealth can not be assumed to be the hardest working nor the most productive. The system is now so corrupted, tweaked and minipulated and distorted that there is no telling about anything. How we get to where we probably need to be from where we are I suspect is impossible at this point. Tax policy, economic policy, regulation....its all a hopeless clusterf*** at this point bought to you mainly by corrupt politicians and their cronies. How it all gets fixed before a crash, burn and revolution is not imaginable to me

Yeah but this is not about wealth, it is about income.

They are different...


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Re: Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2014, 01:08:29 am »
Yeah but this is not about wealth, it is about income.

They are different...

ABSOLUTELY right!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline xfreeper

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Re: Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2014, 01:22:38 am »
Yeah but this is not about wealth, it is about income.

They are different...

Invested wealth generates a lot of income and is subject to a considerable part of the current tax code

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Re: Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2014, 01:29:46 am »
Invested wealth generates a lot of income and is subject to a considerable part of the current tax code

That entirely depends on what the wealth is invested in! There are any number of investment vehicles that allow the truly wealthy to avoid that entirely.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline xfreeper

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Re: Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2014, 01:34:46 am »
OK, fair enough. Let's do it this way. My first comment holds true even if you substitute the word income for wealth, no?

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Re: Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2014, 02:37:24 am »
OK, fair enough. Let's do it this way. My first comment holds true even if you substitute the word income for wealth, no?


For the most part yes!  I however think it remains fixable but we cannot fix it with the Marxist income tax in place!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2014, 05:58:01 pm »

For the most part yes!  I however think it remains fixable but we cannot fix it with the Marxist income tax in place!

One of the problems with it is demagogues (and people who don't know any better) deliberately conflate income and wealth.
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Re: Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2014, 06:02:35 pm »
Best way to run that tax base off, without taking much of their wealth or income from them.  The 1% can easily use the natural swings in the market to expatriate with a minimum of tax pain from the expatriation tax, and after that they can continue trading on the NYSE and owning private equity and hedge fund investments in the US without paying any US tax, because income derived from trading for one's own account is, generally speaking, treated as non-US-source income.  In fact, large domestic corporations can be run quite easily from offshore by non-US shareholders/directors without those shareholders or directors becoming subject to US tax.

Stupid is as stupid does.

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Re: Economists Recommend a Tax Rate of 90% on 1 Percenters?
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2014, 06:20:03 pm »
Best way to run that tax base off, without taking much of their wealth or income from them. 

Bingo.  The lefties are trying to figure out how to confiscate the wealth of anybody trying to vote with their feet because they finally figured out they're running the tax base off.  Is there solution to stop running them off?  No!  Their solution is to stop them from running off by enacting laws to claw back the money as they leave.  Watch what California and New York do, because that's where they find themselves today.

My solution:  Don't have tax policies that run people off.  That applies to a lot of aspects of life:  "Don't run people off."
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