Author Topic: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next  (Read 9324 times)

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Offline Bigun

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"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline speekinout

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #51 on: October 24, 2014, 01:33:13 am »
I disagree with your first point.  I don't know how many stayed home in 2012, but the fact is that Obama overwhelmingly won the women, young, and Hispanic vote.  According to one analysis, those who wanted an end to all abortions voted for Romney over Obama by almost 80 to 20.  The same for the gay-marriage issue.  But while Romney won the born again vote by 78-21, Obama actually won the Catholic vote.  And the Tea Party vote went to Romney 87-21.

So it doesn't take much to see that 2012 wasn't about the social right staying home as much as it was about the women, young and Hispanics who didn't.  And the GOP didn't pay a lot of attention to the groups that didn't vote for Romney.  They were sucker-punched, and spent a lot of time trying to defend against the silly charges of wars on women, minorities, gays and the poor, which BTW worked for Obama.  And Romney was simply the last man standing, and failed to inspire just about everyone who watched his debates and speeches.

So I wouldn't run off or rule out the social right too quickly.  They are traditionally Republican voters, even if some of their social issues will have to take a back seat in '16.

You might not like that point, but analyses have shown that millions of social conservatives stayed home. The analysis you quoted was the one surveying the people who did vote. I don't mean to sound like I'm against the social conservatives, but many of them do have a litmus test, and those won't vote unless the candidate supports their issue.
There are a lot of single issue voters in both parties. IMO, we'd do better by acknowledging that and having open discussions about which issues are most important in the near term, and which issues should be handled later or differently. Pretending that all issues will get equal priority is only a way to make the elected Congress/President appear to fail. They can't do everything for everyone.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #52 on: October 24, 2014, 01:37:06 am »
It takes money to win. The last time I checked, donating money is free speech.

"Takes money to win" != "Money wins" 

Fetching money is grand.  Getting recognition for it is pretty great, too.  Thinking it gives one some kind of rhetorical authority is "meh." 
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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #53 on: October 24, 2014, 02:08:28 am »
"Takes money to win" != "Money wins" 

Fetching money is grand.  Getting recognition for it is pretty great, too.  Thinking it gives one some kind of rhetorical authority is "meh."

These congressmen and women have to run both a primary and general election. In order to win they have to fundraise. They have to pay for printing fees, staff and other related expenses which cost thousands of dollars. Unless you have a money tree please let met know.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 02:10:56 am by Trigger »

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #54 on: October 24, 2014, 02:21:00 am »
These congressmen and women have to run both a primary and general election. In order to win they have to fundraise. They have to pay for printing fees, staff and other related expenses which cost thousands of dollars. Unless you have a money tree please let met know.

Let me try this once more:  If money is everything, then why did Romney lose?  Stop trying to impress me with your suave Republican connections, I don't care.  You are insulting my intelligence.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #55 on: October 24, 2014, 02:22:41 am »
Let me try this once more:  If money is everything, then why did Romney lose?  Stop trying to impress me with your suave Republican connections, I don't care.  You are insulting my intelligence.

Romney lost because he was not tough enough against Obama. I would gone like him like Pit bull like Ronald Reagan did on Walter Mondale and Jimmy Carter
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 02:26:39 am by Trigger »

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #56 on: October 24, 2014, 02:32:58 am »
Romney lost because he was not tough enough against Obama. I would gone like him like Pit bull

Romney was a pit bull with no known teeth. 

Mitt Romney was an excellent object lesson that tons and tons of money dumped into a campaign gets you dick if you don't have a message.  He didn't have one because he didn't have any principles beyond getting elected.  He proved he didn't have any of those when he told the SoCons to pound sand.

Which, ironically, is precisely what you are telling the next candidate to do.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #57 on: October 24, 2014, 02:41:34 am »
Romney was a pit bull with no known teeth. 

Mitt Romney was an excellent object lesson that tons and tons of money dumped into a campaign gets you dick if you don't have a message.  He didn't have one because he didn't have any principles beyond getting elected.  He proved he didn't have any of those when he told the SoCons to pound sand.

Which, ironically, is precisely what you are telling the next candidate to do.

Why won't you run then. You seem to have the answers.I double dog you.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 02:44:54 am by Trigger »

Offline Carling

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #58 on: October 24, 2014, 02:50:56 am »
How easy it is to pigeonhole people to one side or the other.  I reject your binary world.  It's not one or the other.  Most of us are both.

I think it's safe to say that the social conservatives do want to legislate their morality, at the federal level, on other Americans.  Isn't that why DOMA was passed?  It's safe to say that there is never going to be another proposed constitutional ban on gay marriage again in this country.  It's been decided.  It's over, social conservatives.  Hold your own personal beliefs and continue to believe them, I don't care at all what others think of gays, but your country has decided that gays are going to marry. 

If you truly are outraged, show up in the millions in DC and demand that gays can't marry each other.  Nobody cares.  It's not like abortion or taxes.  I think abortion is a much more legitimate morality point to run on these days.  I think it's a political loser as well, but at least there is a strong ethical case to make of how abortion kills children, as well as permanently causing emotional damage to the many young mothers who are persuaded to kill their child, even if they would rather keep it.
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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #59 on: October 24, 2014, 02:59:48 am »
I think it's safe to say that the social conservatives do want to legislate their morality, at the federal level, on other Americans.  Isn't that why DOMA was passed?  It's safe to say that there is never going to be another proposed constitutional ban on gay marriage again in this country.  It's been decided.  It's over, social conservatives.  Hold your own personal beliefs and continue to believe them, I don't care at all what others think of gays, but your country has decided that gays are going to marry. 

If you truly are outraged, show up in the millions in DC and demand that gays can't marry each other.  Nobody cares.  It's not like abortion or taxes.  I think abortion is a much more legitimate morality point to run on these days.  I think it's a political loser as well, but at least there is a strong ethical case to make of how abortion kills children, as well as permanently causing emotional damage to the many young mothers who are persuaded to kill their child, even if they would rather keep it.

So you support Obama's stance on gays then you hate him. Which is it? Liberals are legislating their morality.I believe in strong litmus tests the nominees might use are more fervently discussed when vacancies for the U.S. Supreme Court appear likely. They must be social conservatives (Ronald Reagan type nominees), anti-abortion, anti-gay. They must interpret the Constitution strictly.In textualism in statutory interpretation and originalism in constitutional interpretation, like Antonin Scalia.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 03:51:51 am by Trigger »

Offline PzLdr

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #60 on: October 24, 2014, 03:52:35 am »
They are there to represent you. If you do not like it run against them
They are there to represent you. If you do not like it run against them

Yeah. And have the Mississippi machine work with the Dems to get Dim voters to cross party lines in the primary to beat the conservative challenger. Or try the Robertson playbook in Kansas [which both he and the GOP governor may lose. Indies not biting?]. Or watch McConnell's PAC unload beaucoups bucks in primaries uniformly against conservatives? When you say "run against them", I presume you refer to the entire GOPe, because that's the way it turns out. 
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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #61 on: October 24, 2014, 03:54:55 am »
Yeah. And have the Mississippi machine work with the Dems to get Dim voters to cross party lines in the primary to beat the conservative challenger. Or try the Robertson playbook in Kansas [which both he and the GOP governor may lose. Indies not biting?]. Or watch McConnell's PAC unload beaucoups bucks in primaries uniformly against conservatives? When you say "run against them", I presume you refer to the entire GOPe, because that's the way it turns out.

If GOP voters do not like their GOP elected leaders run against them in the primary and find how easy it is.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 04:02:01 am by Trigger »

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #62 on: October 24, 2014, 04:11:56 am »
I have apparently missed the anti-gay section of the Constitution.

Would somebody point it out, to me? Thanks.
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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #63 on: October 24, 2014, 04:20:29 am »
I have apparently missed the anti-gay section of the Constitution

Would somebody point it out, to me? Thanks.

Its not stated  in the Constitution

Then you have the  Romer v. Evans, 517 U.S. 620 (1996) and Lawerence v, Texas. Ask them on their thoughts on these cases

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/gayrights.htm
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 05:05:55 am by Trigger »

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #64 on: October 24, 2014, 12:46:26 pm »
Quote
Trigger wrote:

So you support Obama's stance on gays then you hate him. Which is it?

Can't speak for Carling, but for me it isn't about Obama, but how society is accepting of gays and same-sex marriage.  Personally I don't like same-sex marriage, but it's simply no longer a winning political issue and it's time to move on to issues conservatives can actually make a difference with. 
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #65 on: October 24, 2014, 01:55:22 pm »
You might not like that point, but analyses have shown that millions of social conservatives stayed home. The analysis you quoted was the one surveying the people who did vote. I don't mean to sound like I'm against the social conservatives, but many of them do have a litmus test, and those won't vote unless the candidate supports their issue.

I am questioning two of your hypotheses.  I continue to believe that social conservatives for the most part embrace other issues including fiscal and defense.  Social conservatives are not all evangelicals, many of whom may well have a litmus test for voting.  And I don't see the 4 million missing votes being all from these evangelicals.  Obama lost 7 million votes from his 2008, while winning the Catholic vote.  And 6 million self-described evangelicals voted for Obama (Joel Rosenberg).  The same report shows a greater percentage of Protestant Christians voted for Romney than for McCain in '08.  Romney's term as governor of Massachusetts left a lot of people questioning his conservatism, not just for gay marriage.

Quote
There are a lot of single issue voters in both parties. IMO, we'd do better by acknowledging that and having open discussions about which issues are most important in the near term, and which issues should be handled later or differently. Pretending that all issues will get equal priority is only a way to make the elected Congress/President appear to fail. They can't do everything for everyone.

I agree.  By and large, Obama won through a campaign of spreading fear of Republicans through various demographic groups, and Romney simply couldn't respond effectively.  Expect it again in '16.  One thing potential candidates need to stay away from is signing pledges.  Another is to recognize that during the primaries they will be inundated with demands from those single issue voters.  Don't let themselves be painted into a corner and understand how the MSM will spin it.  But above all, stay away from the circular firing squad of 2012!
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Offline GourmetDan

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #66 on: October 24, 2014, 01:57:27 pm »
Its not stated  in the Constitution

I don't think anti-rape or anti-pedophila sections are in the Constitution either.

Therefore...


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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #67 on: October 24, 2014, 09:17:25 pm »
I don't think anti-rape or anti-pedophila sections are in the Constitution either.

Therefore...

In the United States, the principle of dual sovereignty applies to rape, as to other crimes. If the rape is committed within the borders of a state, that state has jurisdiction. If the victim is a federal official, an ambassador, consul, or other foreign official under the protection of the United States, or if the crime took place on federal property or involved crossing state borders, or in a manner that substantially affects interstate commerce or national security, then the federal government also has jurisdiction.

If a crime is not committed within any state, such as in the District of Columbia or on a naval or U.S.-flagged merchant vessel in international waters, then federal jurisdiction is exclusive. In cases where the rape involves both state and federal jurisdictions, the offender can be tried and punished separately for each crime without raising issues of double jeopardy.

Because the United States comprises 51 jurisdictions, each with its own criminal code, this section treats only the crime of rape in the federal courts and does not deal with state-by-state specifics. Federal law does not use the term "rape". Rape is grouped with all forms of non-consensual sexual acts under chapter 109a of the United States Code (18 U.S.C. §§ 2241–2248).

Under federal law, the punishment for rape can range from a fine to life imprisonment. The severity of the punishment is based on the use of violence, the age of the victim, and whether drugs or intoxicants were used to override consent. If the perpetrator is a repeat offender the law prescribes automatically doubling the maximum sentence.

Kennedy v. Louisiana, 554 U.S. ___ (2008) was a decision by the U.S. Supreme Court that held that the Eighth Amendment's cruel and unusual punishment clause did not permit a state to punish the crime of rape of a child with the death penalty if the victim does not die and death was not intended, therefore if a person is convicted of rape he or she is not eligible for the death penalty according to the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling in Kennedy v. Louisiana 554 U.S. ___ (2008).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_United_States#Criminal_Punishment
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 09:23:14 pm by Trigger »

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #68 on: October 24, 2014, 09:43:51 pm »
Can't speak for Carling, but for me it isn't about Obama, but how society is accepting of gays and same-sex marriage.  Personally I don't like same-sex marriage, but it's simply no longer a winning political issue and it's time to move on to issues conservatives can actually make a difference with.

There is a group who do not. Liberals should not be doing this. I do not wonder if this board is a conservative one or a liberal one.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 09:44:48 pm by Trigger »

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #69 on: October 24, 2014, 09:55:37 pm »
There is a group who do not. Liberals should not be doing this. I do not wonder if this board is a conservative one or a liberal one.


Yeah....but WTF does all this have to do with what Mark Cuban said?

Seems some are always quick to get into pissing contests over social issues, which helps explain why they are such divisive issues.


....which btw, is Mark Cuban's point.

You wanna win?  STFU come election time.

This only adds credence to the statement that a Conservative administration cannot govern a liberal culture.  Change the culture first by changing the education system, abolishing all public and teacher unions, tenure, and ferreting out all the Commies.  That's a good start.
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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #70 on: October 24, 2014, 10:03:37 pm »

Yeah....but WTF does all this have to do with what Mark Cuban said?

Seems some are always quick to get into pissing contests over social issues, which helps explain why they are such divisive issues.


....which btw, is Mark Cuban's point.

You wanna win?  STFU come election time.

This only adds credence to the statement that a Conservative administration cannot govern a liberal culture.  Change the culture first by changing the education system, abolishing all public and teacher unions, tenure, and ferreting out all the Commies.  That's a good start.

This board is becoming liberal and liberal everyday. It does have to do with the Mark Cuban comment because many previous comments has the liberal taint to it. We are losing its original mission here. Social issues and being a conservative goes hand in hand. I have already voted and I voted for the Republican Candidate for Governor.

« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 10:58:22 pm by Trigger »

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #71 on: October 24, 2014, 10:36:08 pm »
This board is becoming liberal and liberal everyday. Its losing its original mission. Social issues and being a conservative goes hand in hand. I have already voted and I voted for the Republican Candidate for Governor.

So only social conservatives need post?   :thud:
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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #72 on: October 24, 2014, 10:40:35 pm »
So only social conservatives need post?   :thud:

They can post. But hypocritical. There are a lot of hypocritical people here
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 10:41:25 pm by Trigger »

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #73 on: October 24, 2014, 10:59:14 pm »
This board is becoming liberal and liberal everyday. It does have to do with the Mark Cuban comment because many previous comments has the liberal taint to it. We are losing its original mission here. Social issues and being a conservative goes hand in hand. I have already voted and I voted for the Republican Candidate for Governor.

What a shame that this board is being tainted by Democratic Ideals. If you going to be a conservative be one with a big "C" not a small ones. Do not pick and choose the issues you like
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 11:03:24 pm by Trigger »

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #74 on: October 24, 2014, 11:03:17 pm »
On another thread I was arguing that social conservatives in general tended not to be single issue voters.  Perhaps I was mistaken...

                                                                          *hmmmm*
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