Author Topic: Gen. Zinni: Two brigades could push ISIS back into Syria ‘in a heartbeat’ (Video)  (Read 619 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

rangerrebew

  • Guest


Gen. Zinni: Two brigades could push ISIS back into Syria ‘in a heartbeat’ (Video)

By J.E. Dyer on August 31, 2014 at 9:54 pm
 
A former commander of U.S. Central Command, Marine Corps General Anthony Zinni, was categorical on NBC’s Meet the Press this morning: it wouldn’t take that big a force to eject ISIS from Iraq.

He’s concerned that we’re unable to have a serious public discussion of the issue, however.


“The boots on the ground question is always the toughest one,” Zinni said. “I wish we were not so paranoid about boots on the ground. We can’t even define it! There’s going to have to be special operations forces,” even with air strikes.

“Very simply put, if you put two brigades on the ground of U.S. forces, they would push ISIS back to Syria in a heartbeat and probably take less time, less cost, and I think in the long run fewer casualties overall.”

Zinni, who commanded CENTCOM from 1997 to 2000, is known for outspokenness.  He was a popular commentator on the MSM opinion circuit in the mid-2000s, when he offered blunt criticism of the Bush administration’s Iraq War strategy.  Although he reportedly supported the surge in 2007, he was so often quoted as a severe critic of interagency processes in Washington that Americans can be forgiven for not realizing he thought the surge was a good idea.

Indeed, Zinni can be something of a contrarian, focused on rejecting orthodoxies, such as the common reference to the Iraq surge as a “strategy” (see links above).  It wasn’t a strategy, said Zinni; it was a tactic.  And that mattered, because in spite of the good done by the surge, we still lacked adequate attention to our overall strategy for Iraq and the larger Middle East.

That point of his comes to mind now.  I’m not fully convinced that it would take only two brigades to “push ISIS back to Syria,” although I do think it could be done without getting enmeshed in a “quagmire.”  But the potential for a quagmire is still at issue, because the next question is: then what?  If ISIS is pushed into Syria, how is Iraq to be secured — and what will Iraq even be?  The Kurds have essentially cordoned off their own state in order to defend it against ISIS; Iran has forces deployed in Iraq more overtly than ever before in the modern era; the central government in Baghdad has shown with pathetic clarity that it is unable to defend Iraqi territory or hold a governing coalition together.  The quagmire would be encountered in the attempt to harden Iraq against a return of ISIS.

And, of course, ISIS couldn’t really be contained inside Syria.  Everyone around Syria — Turkey, Jordan, Israel, Lebanon — would have to worry about spillover from ISIS operations there.  I think Zinni knows it wouldn’t be enough to just push ISIS westward.  But he’s like most of us: he doesn’t have a ready answer or a comprehensive strategic vision for what it would take to decisively eliminate the ISIS threat.

The ISIS threat is not the same thing as the Ba’athist threat or the Al-Qaeda-in-Iraq threat that haunted Iraq in the years between the 2003 invasion and the 2007 surge.  But the difficulty of finding an effective strategic approach to those predecessor threats is highly informative now, because the ISIS threat has similar qualities of intransigence and regional embeddedness.  Basically, to invoke Zinni’s own criticism of the Bush operation, it’s easy enough to say we could push ISIS back with two brigades, just as it was easy enough to say we could depose Saddam.  But then what?  What’s the strategy?  What, in fact, is the objective?

In the years after the 2003 invasion, Victor Davis Hanson wrote on a number of occasions about the statesman’s conundrum of having only bad choices and worse ones.  He was right then, and his point remains powerful today, as I think anyone with an honest perspective recognizes that there are no obviously “good” choices to make about ISIS.  It is all the more remarkable, in that light, that George W. Bush went ahead and made decisions and took action.  Barack Obama hasn’t done so — but the criticism of him for that isn’t because it would be easy to know what to do, or easy to do it.

On the contrary, it is very difficult.  The difficulty lies in the fact that the tactical approach is the least of our worries.  There is nothing militarily immovable about ISIS.  Hit ISIS with concentrated military power and it will retreat.  But that won’t sap its will, or make its local neighbors able to fend it off when it tries again.  The only thing that will defeat ISIS is a stronger will: a will that can stand up to setbacks, criticism, and difficulty.  Bush 43 angered his domestic political opponents by having such a will, and refusing to be undone by their relentless campaign against his policies.  Obama, by contrast, is more apt to spend his time pointing out how complex it all is, and complaining about his critics.

It’s not to indict General Zinni that I make these points.  He isn’t wrong to observe that there are military actions of moderate scope that could feasibly be taken.  But his comment serves to highlight how unimportant that actually is when the will to take on the policy and strategy dilemmas is lacking.  Surely Americans are reaching a teachable moment in which we can learn from this.

Read more at http://libertyunyielding.com/2014/08/31/gen-zinni-two-brigades-push-isis-back-syria-heartbeat-video/#GcTiJBOvwVyXtI2H.99

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,804
  • Gender: Male
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
While I hate to disagree with a respected officer, I have to, this time.

2 brigades would indeed clear ISIL from Iraq. For about 20 minutes. They are smart, tough and way better trained than most US forces. They've had more practice, and see zero shame in falling back to prepared positions in the case of an attack.

It would take at least 6 brigades. 3 to sweep the area and three on the border to bag and tag. You'd need the equivalent of a brigades worth of intel operatives too.
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

rangerrebew

  • Guest
While I hate to disagree with a respected officer, I have to, this time.

2 brigades would indeed clear ISIL from Iraq. For about 20 minutes. They are smart, tough and way better trained than most US forces. They've had more practice, and see zero shame in falling back to prepared positions in the case of an attack.

It would take at least 6 brigades. 3 to sweep the area and three on the border to bag and tag. You'd need the equivalent of a brigades worth of intel operatives too.

 :thumbsup3:  Adding a few air wings would certainly hasten the process.

Offline alicewonders

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,021
  • Gender: Female
  • Live life-it's too short to butt heads w buttheads
While I hate to disagree with a respected officer, I have to, this time.

2 brigades would indeed clear ISIL from Iraq. For about 20 minutes. They are smart, tough and way better trained than most US forces. They've had more practice, and see zero shame in falling back to prepared positions in the case of an attack.

It would take at least 6 brigades. 3 to sweep the area and three on the border to bag and tag. You'd need the equivalent of a brigades worth of intel operatives too.

Let's hope there are forces planning such a thing as we speak.  Let's also hope they're not including Obama & Co in their planning - as I do believe that he would purposely blow their cover. 

Don't tread on me.   8888madkitty

We told you Trump would win - bigly!

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,804
  • Gender: Male
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Let's hope there are forces planning such a thing as we speak.  Let's also hope they're not including Obama & Co in their planning - as I do believe that he would purposely blow their cover.

I doubt US forces would be used, other than for air cover and intel. The Worm doesn't have the will, and, to be totally blunt, your guys are not terrible good at urban pacification. Set piece battles, you are second to none. Door to dooring - you need the English or the French. We have the practice at that style of fighting. There is the odd mild advantage to being a colonial power  :laugh:
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Offline alicewonders

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,021
  • Gender: Female
  • Live life-it's too short to butt heads w buttheads
I doubt US forces would be used, other than for air cover and intel. The Worm doesn't have the will, and, to be totally blunt, your guys are not terrible good at urban pacification. Set piece battles, you are second to none. Door to dooring - you need the English or the French. We have the practice at that style of fighting. There is the odd mild advantage to being a colonial power  :laugh:


Thanks EC - I feel a little better about that.  Makes me sad to say it though.
Don't tread on me.   8888madkitty

We told you Trump would win - bigly!

Offline musiclady

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,682
I doubt US forces would be used, other than for air cover and intel. The Worm doesn't have the will, and, to be totally blunt, your guys are not terrible good at urban pacification. Set piece battles, you are second to none. Door to dooring - you need the English or the French. We have the practice at that style of fighting. There is the odd mild advantage to being a colonial power  :laugh:

Gotta disagree a bit here, EC.  As part of the surge, my son was awarded a Bronze Star as the leader of a Psy-op team that did just that.  And did it very well.

I understand that some don't think our troops should ever DO that kind of operation (it's certainly debatable), but they were doing a good job at it when we won the war in 2008.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,804
  • Gender: Male
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Thanks EC - I feel a little better about that.  Makes me sad to say it though.

Don't be, sister mine. No one can be good at everything.

The USA went for technology. Impressive stuff and scary as all get out. When it works. But urban clearing is different. You've got to instantly decide if someone is threat or no threat - it's almost like being a cop. Kill a no threat, its a scar on your soul. Half the time, we'd be still working out the approach on the way in.

Your SEAL teams are amazing. I respect the hell out of them. They are tough, competent, and know their trade. The biggest compliment I ever got in my life was extracting a team, and they all immediately fell asleep. Total trust. Yet they over train. Everything is planned to the second. Can't do that when you are clearing an area.  :laugh:
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,804
  • Gender: Male
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Gotta disagree a bit here, EC.  As part of the surge, my son was awarded a Bronze Star as the leader of a Psy-op team that did just that.  And did it very well.

I understand that some don't think our troops should ever DO that kind of operation (it's certainly debatable), but they were doing a good job at it when we won the war in 2008.

He's your son - of course he did it well. I'd expect nothing less. Give him my respects, please. Psy-ops never get credit for what they do.

War is totally amoral though. We have a saying in the teams - whatever works.
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink