I have a question for any Christian here.

[EC]

He must love me for some reason. I'm still breathing. 

[DCPatriot]

He must love me for some reason. I'm still breathing. 

Knock wood, my friend.      You're one of His Archangels.

[alicewonders]

I have two prayers.

One where I give thanks - that happens daily, at sunrise if at all possible.

The other is for work. Basically boils down to "You coming, or what?" The Lord and I have an odd relationship. 

I too, give thanks in my first prayer of the day.  At bedtime, I give my "if I should die before I wake" type of prayer where I reconcile things that occurred during the day and clear the slate for a new day tomorrow.

I do another type of prayer when there is an earnest and pressing reason to immerse myself in an intensive power-type prayer, but I don't do those every day.

[alicewonders]

He must love me for some reason. I'm still breathing. 

He's keeping you around for something.   

[alicewonders]

Knock wood, my friend.      You're one of His Archangels.

Yes - what you said!   

[EC]

He gave us an archangel of our own.

Alice knows the prayer - complete with the alteration. 

[alicewonders]

He gave us an archangel of our own.

Alice knows the prayer - complete with the alteration. 

Yes I do, and it really works too!   

[EC]

Yes I do, and it really works too!   

Some times you need  a "Hey, you actually paying attention here?"

[alicewonders]

Some times you need  a "Hey, you actually paying attention here?"

Yes you do.   

[NavyCanDo]

I never met an agnostic that hasn’t spent some time in church. Some spent a lot of time. If the church did not give you an understanding who God really is, and if you did not feel drawn towards him but instead repulsed, and you did not have  a sense of belonging, a sense of family,  or you felt condemned as soon as you walked through the door,  then let me be the first to apologize for that church. That spiritually dead church.  I would highly recommend you keep looking. Find another church, and another, and another if you need too until you find a church home.  God knows you are searching. We tried several in the area we moved, until we found the one that we feel was the perfect church for us. Where we gather every weekend for a time of worship and practical Bible teaching in gatherings to be authentic, warm and engaging, and fun. If you are not a Christ follower but just kicking the tires of Christianity which it seems you are doing by asking your question, then I challenge you to keep searching, like we did.   And don't be afraid of other denominations, or even non-denominations.

In your search remember this - When people see us Christians, they see Jesus. For better or worse. And because of some bad churches, it’s too often worse.  Are they seeing a picture of grace and love? Or are they seeing condemnation?     A church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints

[alicewonders]

I never met an agnostic that hasn’t spent some time in church. Some spent a lot of time. If the church did not give you an understanding who God really is, and if you did not feel drawn towards him but instead repulsed, and you did not have  a sense of belonging, a sense of family,  or you felt condemned as soon as you walked through the door,  then let me be the first to apologize for that church. That spiritually dead church.  I would highly recommend you keep looking. Find another church, and another, and another if you need too until you find a church home.  God knows you are searching. We tried several in the area we moved, until we found the one that we feel was the perfect church for us. Where we gather every weekend for a time of worship and practical Bible teaching in gatherings to be authentic, warm and engaging, and fun. If you are not a Christ follower but just kicking the tires of Christianity which it seems you are doing by asking your question, then I challenge you to keep searching, like we did.   And don't be afraid of other denominations, or even non-denominations.

In your search remember this - When people see us Christians, they see Jesus. For better or worse. And because of some bad churches, it’s too often worse.  Are they seeing a picture of grace and love? Or are they seeing condemnation?     A church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints

Good answer Navy.   

[NavyCanDo]

What does God (if He exists) seek?  I think the best answer we are able to come up with given our limited and fallible capabilities is: perfection.

I'm not a theologian, but I will give you my two cents. I think what He seeks is not perfection in us, but something a lot simpler, and something we ALL seek - someone who loves us. Not because they have to, not because there is a reward at the end, or a threat of punishment if they don't, [that's Islam],  but a genuine love from a creation He made His image, with the freedom of choice.  And then to have a genuine  relationship and fellowship with each other.    That's what He seeks. And when man's sins, pride and self reliance got in the way of that relationship, He reached out in love to lift us from darkness into light by trading his righteousness for shame and dying for you and me in a painful death that we can only imagine. And despite all my pride and foolishness and sin, his Grace is sufficient and as the verse says, "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow".

[SPQR]

     A church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints

I do not see that. Church is to praise the Lord Jesus Christ and to keep the Sabbath Day holy.I am excited to go to church every Sunday.We believe churches are dedicated public places of worship where Mormons and visitors can meet to pray, study scripture, partake of the sacrament, and continue to learn their responsibilities as children of God. The temple is literally, as it has been throughout history, the "house of the Lord" (see 1 Kings 6:1, 37).

[NavyCanDo]

I do not see that. Church is to praise the Lord Jesus Christ and to keep the Sabbath Day holy.I am excited to go to church every Sunday.We believe churches are dedicated public places of worship where Mormons and visitors can meet to pray, study scripture, partake of the sacrament, and continue to learn their responsibilities as children of God. The temple is literally, as it has been throughout history, the "house of the Lord" (see 1 Kings 6:1, 37).

I respect what you believe, but what I believe is that the church you are talking about be it Mormon, Catholic, Episcopal, Methodist, Presbyterian, or something else is why so many non-Christ followers who are just "kicking the tires of Christianity" looking for an answer, looking for hope, too often don't find it there. They see people dressed in their Sunday best, partaking in sacraments they don't really understand, singing hymns written in the 1600s. Its scary to a new comer, I've been there. And that is why I was drawn towards a non-denominational church, where we believe the church is not a  building or a program. The church is a community of Christ followers who serve and demonstrate the love of God to this hurting world -an ACTS 13 church. 
Our church did a man-on-the- street survey video taping each response, asking people on the streets of Seattle, "What do you think of when I say the word "Christians"? The answers that came back was frightening.
• Judgmental
• In your face
• Hypocrites
• Crazy
• They think they are better than everyone else
• They just want your money
• Boring
• They don't know how to have fun
• I hate them

We are to be Jesus to the World. When they see us, they should see him. And if what they see is listed above-something is wrong.

The heart of our church is spiritual transformation and we exists to lead people into a growing relationship with Jesus Christ. and reaching out to those lost people who have the above impressions of us - and change it. One example of this is when we hold a Free Oil Change for single moms of the community at our church, where single moms can pull up have their oil changed, let their kids go play on the inflatables and games we have set up, while they relax and get pampered in our lounge and get served coffee and treats by Christian women, eager to talk to them.
Those mothers come back. Those mothers don't see the boring, highly sacramental church there parents use to drag them to. Those mothers have had those stereotypes erased forever.   House of God? Absolutely. We still feel our Church is the House of God, and that he is in our presence.

[alicewonders]

I love the oil change idea Navy - that is such an inspirational way to minister to the needs of people with needs.  Really like that! 

[DCPatriot]

I respect what you believe, but what I believe is that the church you are talking about be it Mormon, Catholic, Episcopal, Methodist, Presbyterian, or something else is why so many non-Christ followers who are just "kicking the tires of Christianity" looking for an answer, looking for hope, too often don't find it there. They see people dressed in their Sunday best, partaking in sacraments they don't really understand, singing hymns written in the 1600s. Its scary to a new comer, I've been there. And that is why I was drawn towards a non-denominational church, where we believe the church is not a  building or a program. The church is a community of Christ followers who serve and demonstrate the love of God to this hurting world -an ACTS 13 church. 
Our church did a man-on-the- street survey video taping each response, asking people on the streets of Seattle, "What do you think of when I say the word "Christians"? The answers that came back was frightening.
• Judgmental
• In your face
• Hypocrites
• Crazy
• They think they are better than everyone else
• They just want your money
• Boring
• They don't know how to have fun
• I hate them

We are to be Jesus to the World. When they see us, they should see him. And if what they see is listed above-something is wrong.

The heart of our church is spiritual transformation and we exists to lead people into a growing relationship with Jesus Christ. and reaching out to those lost people who have the above impressions of us - and change it. One example of this is when we hold a Free Oil Change for single moms of the community at our church, where single moms can pull up have their oil changed, let their kids go play on the inflatables and games we have set up, while they relax and get pampered in our lounge and get served coffee and treats by Christian women, eager to talk to them.
Those mothers come back. Those mothers don't see the boring, highly sacramental church there parents use to drag them to. Those mothers have had those stereotypes erased forever.   House of God? Absolutely. We still feel our Church is the House of God, and that he is in our presence.

That's one exceptional post, there, Navy!  Very inspirational.

Would be proud to share a foxhole with you any day.....when the 'flag' goes up!   

[NavyCanDo]

I love the oil change idea Navy - that is such an inspirational way to minister to the needs of people with needs.  Really like that!

We like it to.

[EC]

I respect what you believe, but what I believe is that the church you are talking about be it Mormon, Catholic, Episcopal, Methodist, Presbyterian, or something else is why so many non-Christ followers who are just "kicking the tires of Christianity" looking for an answer, looking for hope, too often don't find it there. They see people dressed in their Sunday best, partaking in sacraments they don't really understand, singing hymns written in the 1600s. Its scary to a new comer, I've been there. And that is why I was drawn towards a non-denominational church, where we believe the church is not a  building or a program. The church is a community of Christ followers who serve and demonstrate the love of God to this hurting world -an ACTS 13 church. 
Our church did a man-on-the- street survey video taping each response, asking people on the streets of Seattle, "What do you think of when I say the word "Christians"? The answers that came back was frightening.
• Judgmental
• In your face
• Hypocrites
• Crazy
• They think they are better than everyone else
• They just want your money
• Boring
• They don't know how to have fun
• I hate them

We are to be Jesus to the World. When they see us, they should see him. And if what they see is listed above-something is wrong.

The heart of our church is spiritual transformation and we exists to lead people into a growing relationship with Jesus Christ. and reaching out to those lost people who have the above impressions of us - and change it. One example of this is when we hold a Free Oil Change for single moms of the community at our church, where single moms can pull up have their oil changed, let their kids go play on the inflatables and games we have set up, while they relax and get pampered in our lounge and get served coffee and treats by Christian women, eager to talk to them.
Those mothers come back. Those mothers don't see the boring, highly sacramental church there parents use to drag them to. Those mothers have had those stereotypes erased forever.   House of God? Absolutely. We still feel our Church is the House of God, and that he is in our presence.

I think you are both looking the same thing, from different perspectives. Problem with people - they are not sheep. They are lambs. We're told that. Little children to our Father, and the flock to our Savior and Shepherd. I know it's Catholic imagery, mostly, but Our Lord is not waving a crook around to smite his own sheep, it's to protect them from the wolves with the heavy end, and gently pull them to safety with the crook end, not yank their heads off! Navy is, from my reading, worried that Christianity - all branches of it - has been using the crook the wrong way around in a lot of places.

Trigger is pointing out that the paramount command is to Worship our Shepherd together, joyously and in harmony.

A fair summation?

[NavyCanDo]

What I don't want to do is be judgmental of other denominations. There are churches in all denominations that understand too well those perceptions listed above people have of Christians, and are working hard to change it. If I was in a church that did not, I'd be looking someplace else.

[SPQR]

Trigger is pointing out that the paramount command is to Worship our Shepherd together, joyously and in harmony.

A fair summation?

 

[GourmetDan]

Our church did a man-on-the- street survey video taping each response, asking people on the streets of Seattle, "What do you think of when I say the word "Christians"? The answers that came back was frightening.

John 17:14 - "I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world."

We are to be Jesus to the World. When they see us, they should see him. And if what they see is listed above-something is wrong.

No, that's good.  The world is condemned by the Christian lifestyle and is reacting adversely to that condemnation.

John 15:18 - "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first."

The early church was hated for the same reason.  If the world loves you, then you should start to worry.

You can reach out to single-moms but, in my experience, they are not discipled after they are brought in and they continue in their destructive lifestyle.  This tends to spread to the young-people and the baby-Christians in the church and that is a real problem.  Everybody is afraid they will be called 'judgmental' if they speak out against sin and the whole body is weakened.

What you end up with is a carnal 'church' that celebrates the start of football season by having everybody wear their favorite team's jersey to Sunday worship.  Tattoos are celebrated with the Youth Pastor's wife leading the Children's Church leader in getting new ones.  Anybody that objects is censored and the party goes on.  This happened recently in my church.

I'd rather be hated by the world than be hated by God...

[NavyCanDo]

Being a single mom is a destructive lifestyle?   Talk about being judgmental. Some of these single moms are widows, at least one lost her husband in Afghanistan. Others have split from their abusive husbands,  and those who have had children out of wedlock are reaching out for help. What church do you think they would want to go to? One that calls there lifestyle destructive, or one that opens their arms to them and says welcome ?    And, if they come to church they are getting the same discipleship we all are.   And it’s great discipleship even if we do where our Seahawk Jerseys to church. It’s better than sitting at home because there is football on Sunday. I’d rather have a pre-game fellowship with other Christians, including at least one Seahawk, Brandon Mebane who goes to our church, who dedicated their baby this Sunday.   
When we drove out of the Church Parking lot after service, my 12-year old son said, “Dad, I love this church”…….That’s enough proof for me that we are in the right place.

[Oceander]

Being a single mom is a destructive lifestyle?   Talk about being judgmental. Some of these single moms are widows, at least one lost her husband in Afghanistan. Others have split from their abusive husbands,  and those who have had children out of wedlock are reaching out for help. What church do you think they would want to go to? One that calls there lifestyle destructive, or one that opens their arms to them and says welcome ?    And, if they come to church they are getting the same discipleship we all are.   And it’s great discipleship even if we do where our Seahawk Jerseys to church. It’s better than sitting at home because there if football on Sunday. I’d rather have a pre-game fellowship with other Christians, including at least one Seahawk, Brandon Mebane who goes to our church, who dedicated their baby this Sunday.    When we drove out of the Church Parking lot after service, my 12-year old son said, “Dad, I love this church”…….That’s enough proof for me that we are in the right place.

[NavyCanDo]

John 15:18 - "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first."

I'd rather be hated by the world than be hated by God...

John wasn’t saying you measure your ministries success, by how much you are hated.  If so, then the Westboro church is doing pretty good in God’s eyes, and we should be more like them.

The old Christian song, with the verse, “They will know we are Christians by our love” speaks volumes.
 
 And John also wrote on that – John 13 34-35;   A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
“But, but he was talking about loving Christians…..not sinners”…...     Do I have to remind you of the Good Samaritan?   The Samaritans were despised by the Jews for being unclean and ungodly.  Or the girl being stoned for  sin she was guilty of?   

[GourmetDan]

John wasn’t saying you measure your ministries success, by how much you are hated.  If so, then the Westboro church is doing pretty good in God’s eyes, and we should be more like them.

That's why Christians are being forced to participate in 'gay' marriages against their will.  Because tolerance now means forcing people who disagree with you to participate in your favorite perversion.  We'll just have to see what God says on the judgement day but those condoning 'gay' marriage, priests, lifestyle and adoptive parents may find themselves on the wrong side of God.

The old Christian song, with the verse, “They will know we are Christians by our love” speaks volumes.
 
 And John also wrote on that – John 13 34-35;   A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
“But, but he was talking about loving Christians…..not sinners”…...     Do I have to remind you of the Good Samaritan?   The Samaritans were despised by the Jews for being unclean and ungodly.  Or the girl being stoned for  sin she was guilty of?   

The Samaritans were bluntly told, " You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews." and the woman caught in adultery was told, “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

That isn't happening in 'church' these days because it's supposedly 'hateful' and 'unloving'...