Author Topic: Obama eligibility case lives! Supreme Court's own precedent cited in new demand for resolution.  (Read 1737 times)

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Offline rangerrebew

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"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim tribute to patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness -- these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. . . . reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principles."
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Offline kevindavis

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Can we drop this crap??
To Clear things up...

Mueller has been one of the most respected individuals on the planet over the last 20 years.

Mueller is a Republican

Mueller was appointed by Republicans

Mueller doesn't determine if someone is guilty, The Judge and Jury do!

Get it!!!!

“You can go to live in France, but you can't become a Frenchman. You can go to live in Germany, but you can't become a German... But anyone, from any corner of the world, can come to live in the United States and become an American.”

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Online Bigun

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Can we drop this crap??

Nope! Not until the mater is CLEARLY resolved anyway.

Offline Dexter

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Nope! Not until the mater is CLEARLY resolved anyway.

You need to look at the big picture. Not letting this go is going to make the Republicans look bad. You're not going to get him out of office before his term ends; Republicans need to regroup and prepare for upcoming elections.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
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Offline kevindavis

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You need to look at the big picture. Not letting this go is going to make the Republicans look bad. You're not going to get him out of office before his term ends; Republicans need to regroup and prepare for upcoming elections.


 :amen:
To Clear things up...

Mueller has been one of the most respected individuals on the planet over the last 20 years.

Mueller is a Republican

Mueller was appointed by Republicans

Mueller doesn't determine if someone is guilty, The Judge and Jury do!

Get it!!!!

“You can go to live in France, but you can't become a Frenchman. You can go to live in Germany, but you can't become a German... But anyone, from any corner of the world, can come to live in the United States and become an American.”

- Ronald Reagan

Online Bigun

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You need to look at the big picture. Not letting this go is going to make the Republicans look bad. You're not going to get him out of office before his term ends; Republicans need to regroup and prepare for upcoming elections.

I AM looking at the big picture and clearly see what our failure to adhere to the Constitution has wrought!

Offline Dexter

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I AM looking at the big picture and clearly see what our failure to adhere to the Constitution has wrought!

So what do you think should be done? Should people start yelling and screaming about his birth eligibility again?
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
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Offline katzenjammer

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I AM looking at the big picture and clearly see what our failure to adhere to the Constitution has wrought!

For most, the "big picture" has gotten quite small and narrow at this point.

Online Bigun

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So what do you think should be done? Should people start yelling and screaming about his birth eligibility again?

I think this should be pursued until we have a DEFINITIVE ruling  on what the words "No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President..." mean and who is responsible for enforcing them.

Personally I come down on the side of Vatel's definition. but the courts have never decided on it and it is high time that happens.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 07:30:18 PM by Bigun »

Online Bigun

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For most, the "big picture" has gotten quite small and narrow at this point.

Yes indeed!

Offline kevindavis

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I think this should be pursued until we have a DEFINITIVE ruling  on what the words "No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President..." mean and who is responsible for enforcing them.

Personally I come down on the side of Vatel's definition. but the courts have never decided on it and it is high time that happens.


Well Obama meets the requirement.. He was born in Hawaii to his commie mommy.. Ted Cruz , Bobby Jindal, and Marco are eligible as well.
To Clear things up...

Mueller has been one of the most respected individuals on the planet over the last 20 years.

Mueller is a Republican

Mueller was appointed by Republicans

Mueller doesn't determine if someone is guilty, The Judge and Jury do!

Get it!!!!

“You can go to live in France, but you can't become a Frenchman. You can go to live in Germany, but you can't become a German... But anyone, from any corner of the world, can come to live in the United States and become an American.”

- Ronald Reagan

Online Bigun

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Well Obama meets the requirement.. He was born in Hawaii to his commie mommy.. Ted Cruz , Bobby Jindal, and Marco are eligible as well.

So YOU say! I disagree! But the case has been THOROUGHLY discussed here already and I see no point in doing that all over again.  We can beat each other about the head and shoulders till hell freezes over and nothing will be resolved until such time as the court makes a definitive ruling on the matter.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 07:37:46 PM by Bigun »

Offline Carling

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Well Obama meets the requirement.. He was born in Hawaii to his commie mommy.. Ted Cruz , Bobby Jindal, and Marco are eligible as well.

Wasn't Ted Cruz born in Canada?
Trump has created a cult and looks more and more like Hitler every day.
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Offline kevindavis

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Wasn't Ted Cruz born in Canada?


His mother was American..
To Clear things up...

Mueller has been one of the most respected individuals on the planet over the last 20 years.

Mueller is a Republican

Mueller was appointed by Republicans

Mueller doesn't determine if someone is guilty, The Judge and Jury do!

Get it!!!!

“You can go to live in France, but you can't become a Frenchman. You can go to live in Germany, but you can't become a German... But anyone, from any corner of the world, can come to live in the United States and become an American.”

- Ronald Reagan

Offline MACVSOG68

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US v. Wong Kim Ark 169 U.S. 649 (1898)

Jus Soli.

And the Joint session of Congress led by VP. Cheney formally declared Obama eligible and elected on January 8, 2009.

It's the Supreme Court nominations!

Offline jmyrlefuller

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All this legal action for ninety flippin' dollars. Just seems like a waste of resources to me, especially at this stage of the game.

Online Bigun

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« Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 10:38:53 PM by Bigun »

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Online Bigun

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Offline Oceander

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:facepalm2:


Make that a double

:facepalm2: :facepalm2:


Offline katzenjammer

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Thanks Bigun, printed and stored as a PDF for future reference!!   :patriot:

Offline evadR˛

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It's clear to me what the founders meant by natural born citizen and I'm sure you could find even more information in the documents of the time. It's also clear to me why they established it as a requirement for the most important position in the world. They wanted to make sure that an aberration like Obama NEVER became president.
Well, so much for that.
This guy has never been vetted in any manner on anything, including the place of his birth.
November 6, 2012, a day in infamy...the death of a republic as we know it.

Offline MACVSOG68

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Only a fool predicts the outcome of SCOTUS decisions, but should the Court take this one on, I'd be pretty confident of the outcome.  And yes the Court can occasionally render some strange decisions, Kelo, Citizens United, and Obamacare to name a few.  But would this Court actually agree that Obama isn't a natural-born citizen, and set off the greatest constitutional and social crises since the Civil War?  Pretty unlikely.

There have been numerous civil cases filed in every aspect of Obama's eligibility including the validity of his birth certificate and the issue of whether he is a "natural born citizen".  All have been tossed out for reasons including lack of standing.

A key issue is the history of the term "natural born", and how that legally applies.  Vattel's Law of Nations would limit citizenship of those born in a country, while English Common Law accepts birth within the realm regardless of the legality of the parents.  Unfortunately, our new government has referred to both from time to time, but much of the legal language they use is the one they inherited, which relied on the principle of Jus Soli.

Two key Supreme Court cases are used and referred to by both sides.  Minor v Happersett is used by those who feel the term "natural born citizen" limits that to persons born within the US by US citizen parents.  But that's not what it concluded.

The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their [p168]  parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first.

The next case would seem to have addressed that second class Minor didn't.  Wong Kim Ark did address more directly, and conclusively the definition of a natural born citizen, though that was a side issue of the overall citizenship issue.  Perkins V Elg a 1939 case further supports Wong.

The Fourteenth Amendment is key to the determination of whether or not there is a special set-aside group of citizens born here who must have citizen parents.  There is no such group.  There are two requirements for citizenship: Allegiance, and subject to the jurisdiction.  Both of those have been addressed by both laws and cases.  If Obama doesn't pass either of those, then not only is he not a natural born citizen, but isn't a citizen at all, unless he applied for and gained citizenship through naturalization.  After ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment, if one is a citizen, he is either natural by birth or naturalized by law. 

So again, I would be surprised if the SCOTUS takes on such a purely political issue, and even more surprised if it sided with the likes of Orly Taitz and company.



 
It's the Supreme Court nominations!

Offline truth_seeker

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A great many true conservatives have lost interest in constitutional requirements, since they discovered Teodoro from Alberta.
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Online Bigun

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Only a fool predicts the outcome of SCOTUS decisions, but should the Court take this one on, I'd be pretty confident of the outcome.  And yes the Court can occasionally render some strange decisions, Kelo, Citizens United, and Obamacare to name a few.  But would this Court actually agree that Obama isn't a natural-born citizen, and set off the greatest constitutional and social crises since the Civil War?  Pretty unlikely.

There have been numerous civil cases filed in every aspect of Obama's eligibility including the validity of his birth certificate and the issue of whether he is a "natural born citizen".  All have been tossed out for reasons including lack of standing.

A key issue is the history of the term "natural born", and how that legally applies.  Vattel's Law of Nations would limit citizenship of those born in a country, while English Common Law accepts birth within the realm regardless of the legality of the parents.  Unfortunately, our new government has referred to both from time to time, but much of the legal language they use is the one they inherited, which relied on the principle of Jus Soli.

Two key Supreme Court cases are used and referred to by both sides.  Minor v Happersett is used by those who feel the term "natural born citizen" limits that to persons born within the US by US citizen parents.  But that's not what it concluded.

The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their [p168]  parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first.

The next case would seem to have addressed that second class Minor didn't.  Wong Kim Ark did address more directly, and conclusively the definition of a natural born citizen, though that was a side issue of the overall citizenship issue.  Perkins V Elg a 1939 case further supports Wong.

The Fourteenth Amendment is key to the determination of whether or not there is a special set-aside group of citizens born here who must have citizen parents.  There is no such group.  There are two requirements for citizenship: Allegiance, and subject to the jurisdiction.  Both of those have been addressed by both laws and cases.  If Obama doesn't pass either of those, then not only is he not a natural born citizen, but isn't a citizen at all, unless he applied for and gained citizenship through naturalization.  After ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment, if one is a citizen, he is either natural by birth or naturalized by law. 

So again, I would be surprised if the SCOTUS takes on such a purely political issue, and even more surprised if it sided with the likes of Orly Taitz and company.

I have made my case and all of your arguments are addressed therein.  I will say nothing more here on the subject.


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