Author Topic: IDF warns hospital before taking it out  (Read 816 times)

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Online rangerrebew

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IDF warns hospital before taking it out
« on: August 01, 2014, 12:04:38 PM »
ן
Abraham Lincoln:

There is no grievance that is a fit object of redress by mob law.
--January 27, 1838 Lyceum Address

Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties. And not to Democrats alone do I make this appeal, but to all who love these
great and true principles.
--August 27, 1856 Speech at Kalamazoo, Michigan

Let us then turn this government back into the channel in which the framers of the Constitution originally placed it.
--July 10, 1858 Speech at Chicago

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: IDF warns hospital before taking it out
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2014, 01:30:04 PM »
Nothing surprising here.  The shelling of a hospital is a part of the Dahiya Doctrine.  Many applaud its effectiveness.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/29/israel-gaza-infrastructure-blackouts-idf-civilian

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Offline 240B

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Re: IDF warns hospital before taking it out
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2014, 01:53:51 PM »
Nothing surprising here.  The shelling of a hospital is a part of the Dahiya Doctrine.  Many applaud its effectiveness.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/29/israel-gaza-infrastructure-blackouts-idf-civilian

 
So, Israel should have sat back and let them continue firing on civilians? Not sure what your point is? Ever hear of a place called Dresden? Or Nagasaki?
 
It is always confusing to me how many people want to put 'rules of war' on Israel that no nation in history has ever observed, especially Muslims.
 
And anyway, Dahiya does not apply at all in any way to this situation. The Arabs were clearly firing from there, and were using the hospital as an ammo dump.
 
Your Dahiya has to do with deliberately targeting civilian locations in order cause damage to the population (which all nations, including America, have done during war). What is going on here is that Israel is simply returning fire to a location Hamas chose. Israel did not choose to make it part of the war, Hamas did.
 
I am not one of those, Israel can never be criticized people, but at least the critcism should make sense. Yours does not.
 
I'm not really sure what your problem is with Israel, but it seems pretty clear based on your posts that something is going on with you. Just keep in mind that your Hamas friends would slit your throat if they could, and would celebrate afterward for the death of another 'Infidel'.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 01:55:21 PM by 240B »
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: IDF warns hospital before taking it out
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2014, 02:02:35 PM »
Nothing surprising here.  The shelling of a hospital is a part of the Dahiya Doctrine.  Many applaud its effectiveness.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/29/israel-gaza-infrastructure-blackouts-idf-civilian


You're a consequentialist.  Only the outcomes matter.  If a child is killed in a just defensive war, it's always wrong, no matter that the defender is returning fire AGAINST THE LOCATION WHERE THE FIRE ORIGINATED.

In your world, no war is justified because an innocent might die. You have swallowed the Hamas line whole.
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Offline olde north church

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Re: IDF warns hospital before taking it out
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2014, 02:27:32 PM »

So, Israel should have sat back and let them continue firing on civilians? Not sure what your point is? Ever hear of a place called Dresden? Or Nagasaki?
 
It is always confusing to me how many people want to put 'rules of war' on Israel that no nation in history has ever observed, especially Muslims.
 
And anyway, Dahiya does not apply at all in any way to this situation. The Arabs were clearly firing from there, and were using the hospital as an ammo dump.
 
Your Dahiya has to do with deliberately targeting civilian locations in order cause damage to the population (which all nations, including America, have done during war). What is going on here is that Israel is simply returning fire to a location Hamas chose. Israel did not choose to make it part of the war, Hamas did.
 
I am not one of those, Israel can never be criticized people, but at least the critcism should make sense. Yours does not.
 
I'm not really sure what your problem is with Israel, but it seems pretty clear based on your posts that something is going on with you. Just keep in mind that your Hamas friends would slit your throat if they could, and would celebrate afterward for the death of another 'Infidel'.


R_i_V is an anti-Semite as proven by a long list of posts.  Nothing new.
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Online NavyCanDo

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Re: IDF warns hospital before taking it out
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2014, 02:29:18 PM »
Warning  the occupants far in advance that their building will be targeted, so please leave. And then doing everything in their power to verify that it is empty before giving the green light to destroy it.     Who does this?    Who does this is a civilized people.   
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Re: IDF warns hospital before taking it out
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2014, 02:59:41 PM »
The muslims answer to no earthly authority. They believe allah wants them to conquer all, no matter the means or the cost.

The rest of us are mere infidels, nothing more than dogs, so our deaths matter not even a little bit to them.

So strongly do they believe the aforementioned, they kill their own kids as a routine aspect of their jihad lives.

These people kill their own women and daughters, for getting their selves raped, for God's sake.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.”

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Online rangerrebew

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Re: IDF warns hospital before taking it out
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2014, 03:43:02 PM »
Odd how no one on the left or in the media cares about children and women being killed in the ME unless its done by Israelis.
Abraham Lincoln:

There is no grievance that is a fit object of redress by mob law.
--January 27, 1838 Lyceum Address

Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties. And not to Democrats alone do I make this appeal, but to all who love these
great and true principles.
--August 27, 1856 Speech at Kalamazoo, Michigan

Let us then turn this government back into the channel in which the framers of the Constitution originally placed it.
--July 10, 1858 Speech at Chicago

Offline 240B

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Re: IDF warns hospital before taking it out
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2014, 04:01:20 PM »
Odd how no one on the left or in the media cares about children and women being killed in the ME unless its done by Israelis.

ISIS recently forced 600 prisoners to dig a massive trench, and then executed them in it. Nothing but crickets. Not a word about it in the U.N.
 
There was recently 70 people killed in Chicago over one weekend. Nothing but crickets.
 
Israel responds to people firing rockets at them, and all hell breaks loose. I don't understand the goal? Do they want Israel to let Hamas continue to fire rockets at them? I mean, what are they saying? Israel has no right to self defense? That is insanity. Who can possibly think like that?
 
As long as Blacks are murdering Blacks, or Muslims are executing Muslims, then everything is hunky-dorey, A-Ok. But as soon as Israel or America gets involved, then that is genocide and totally unacceptable.
 
What a crazy, upsidedown world the Left has built.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: IDF warns hospital before taking it out
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2014, 07:55:49 PM »

R_i_V is an anti-Semite as proven by a long list of posts.  Nothing new.

No.  I am not.

I do have a deep and pretty clear understanding of what is going on and what has gone on--on both sides-- for the past twelve years. 

Since Lebanon part of the Israeli military strategy (or doctrine, if you will) is to destroy civilian infrastructure as both a lesson and a warning against future attacks.   The IDF generals back then were quite open and vocal about what they were going to do and why.  It has been and may continue to be a very successful strategy.  This same doctrine is in play today in Gaza.  167,000 civilians are homeless, hospitals, schools, Mosques are in rubble, open air markets filled with civilians are bombed.  A very powerful message is being sent.  Yes, war is hell, as the saying goes.

Even though today the doctrine it is not publically owned by IDF leadership, it is still in play; and for more than the "lesson/warning" reasoning. One of the outcomes being mentioned in Israel is tying civilian reconstruction of Gaza to an internationally supported demilitarization of the area.  "Two birds" as they say.

The doctrine is real.  Talking about an Israeli strategy is not anti-Jewish--especially when the strategy has proven to be successful only in the short term. 

Without a viable, comprehensive "Plan B", I fear for Israel's long-term, genuine security, greatly.
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Offline Oceander

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Re: IDF warns hospital before taking it out
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2014, 08:07:42 PM »
No.  I am not.

I do have a deep and pretty clear understanding of what is going on and what has gone on--on both sides-- for the past twelve years. 

Since Lebanon part of the Israeli military strategy (or doctrine, if you will) is to destroy civilian infrastructure as both a lesson and a warning against future attacks.   The IDF generals back then were quite open and vocal about what they were going to do and why.  It has been and may continue to be a very successful strategy.  This same doctrine is in play today in Gaza.  167,000 civilians are homeless, hospitals, schools, Mosques are in rubble, open air markets filled with civilians are bombed.  A very powerful message is being sent.  Yes, war is hell, as the saying goes.

Even though today the doctrine it is not publically owned by IDF leadership, it is still in play; and for more than the "lesson/warning" reasoning. One of the outcomes being mentioned in Israel is tying civilian reconstruction of Gaza to an internationally supported demilitarization of the area.  "Two birds" as they say.

The doctrine is real.  Talking about an Israeli strategy is not anti-Jewish--especially when the strategy has proven to be successful only in the short term. 

Without a viable, comprehensive "Plan B", I fear for Israel's long-term, genuine security, greatly.


(a) you are, and
(b) what you have could not be further from an "understanding" of anything.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: IDF warns hospital before taking it out
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2014, 08:32:24 PM »
what you have could not be further from an "understanding" of anything.

What don't I understand?  If my conclusions are wrong, please tell me where.  If I am to stand corrected, I will do so with appreciation.

Thanks.
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline 240B

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Re: IDF warns hospital before taking it out
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2014, 09:24:59 PM »
Your conclusions are wrong because you cannot conflate Lebanon and Gaza. Lebanon is a real country which has had for much of it's history a real government which actually cares about the country and it's citizens.
 
There is no country called Gaza, and there has never been a government of Gaza. Gaza is currently being ruled by a group which are not 'government' but rather are terrorists. Hamas receives aid from many sources. None of this money is spent on Gaza or the people of Gaza. What they do not steal outright, they spend on weapons.
 
Lebanon has infrastructure. Gaza does not. They have not built a fresh water system. They have not built a sewer system. They have not built anything except terror tunnels, missiles, and suicide bombs. What I am saying is that there is nothing in Gaza to destroy. All of those schools and hospitals people like you are talking about were built by the U.N., not by anyone in Gaza.
 
And after the U.N. built these, Hamas immediately started using them as bunkers, ammo depots, and firing stations.
 
I do not know you, or your religion, or how you feel about Israel or Jews, and I don't care. But your posts on the subject frequently reflect a false reality which has been constructed by Hamas and it's allies, which is an opposite reality from what is really happening.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: IDF warns hospital before taking it out
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2014, 11:09:32 PM »
Your conclusions are wrong because you cannot conflate Lebanon and Gaza. Lebanon is a real country which has had for much of it's history a real government which actually cares about the country and it's citizens.
 
There is no country called Gaza, and there has never been a government of Gaza. Gaza is currently being ruled by a group which are not 'government' but rather are terrorists. Hamas receives aid from many sources. None of this money is spent on Gaza or the people of Gaza. What they do not steal outright, they spend on weapons.
 
Lebanon has infrastructure. Gaza does not. They have not built a fresh water system. They have not built a sewer system. They have not built anything except terror tunnels, missiles, and suicide bombs. What I am saying is that there is nothing in Gaza to destroy. All of those schools and hospitals people like you are talking about were built by the U.N., not by anyone in Gaza.
 
And after the U.N. built these, Hamas immediately started using them as bunkers, ammo depots, and firing stations.
 
I do not know you, or your religion, or how you feel about Israel or Jews, and I don't care. But your posts on the subject frequently reflect a false reality which has been constructed by Hamas and it's allies, which is an opposite reality from what is really happening.

First, thank you for your thoughts.  Passions run high .... and you've been gracious.

I agree Gaza is not Lebanon.  I may not have been clear, but that was not my point.  Mentioning Lebanon was a way of introducing when the Dihiya Doctrine saw the light of day--not to present Gaza as a sovereign nation.

Of course I agree Gaza has not spent "wisely" (to say the least) for water and sewer systems. Anger causes more than ulcers.  It causes dreadful decisions and feeds hate.

But to say Gaza hasn't an infrastructure is misleading.  The inhabitants of Gaza have homes, schools, hospitals, houses of worship, power plants, marketplaces.  While these meager conditions are infuriating as deplorable, this is their infrastructure, and is certainly something to destroy.

So the Dihiya Doctrine still applies, IM(most)HO.

I do not bring this up to defend Hamas.  I bring it up to explain the reasons for what the world is calling Israel's "disproportionate" use of force in Gaza and help explain Israeli attacks as part of an overall strategy. 

I think the strategy is brilliant.  Once.  Maybe twice. After that, I believe the strategy becomes self-defeating. 

As for me, I am a Christian-American.  I hold strongly that Israel has the right to defend herself.  I place that atop my deeper belief that Israel has the right to live in peace.  My fear is that the two are becoming mutually exclusive.

Cyclical wars do not end fighting.  Cyclical wars cannot go on forever.  Even the Dihiya Doctrine cannot change these truths.

And world opinion matters.  It counts.  Right now in the world, especially Europe, the fuse leading to anti-Israel sanctions--and worse--is about to be lit.  I'd like to snuff that out before it becomes a flame.  I'm asking for suggestions.  What other than cyclical war will truly help Israel?

I ask because I worry that in the long-term Israel is not winning.

So... that's my reply to your gracious post.  Now I'm going to have a very late dessert (with lots of ice cream) and not talk about war, or "immigration" or suing the president, or the Ebola virus.

But I will be back tomorrow to further discuss.

Thanks...and enjoy the rest of the evening.
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline 240B

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Re: IDF warns hospital before taking it out
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2014, 11:48:12 PM »
Ok, I get it now. You want rainbows and unicorns and because everyone knows that Israel is the 'adult' in the situation, it is natural to blame them for not making it happem.
 
I agree that nobody wants war. But when you have people sending rockets into your cities, what choice is there?
 
For Israel to 'win' this, they have to completely crush hamas entirely. This effort is supported by very many Muslim countries who all consider 'Hamas' to be an abomination of Islam and an insult to Muslim culture.
 
Israel is defending itself.
 
Look, I know you do not war. And I know that you mean well. But not wanting it, can never make something not so.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.

Online NavyCanDo

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Re: IDF warns hospital before taking it out
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2014, 10:47:13 AM »

For Israel to 'win' this, they have to completely crush hamas entirely.

Let me add to that. For the innocent people of Gaza to "win",  Israel needs to completely crush hamas. For as long as hamas exist there will be no peace for them, and no freedom from the tyranny that controls their lives. 
« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 10:47:29 AM by NavyCanDo »
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Offline EC

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Re: IDF warns hospital before taking it out
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2014, 12:20:03 PM »
Let me add to that. For the innocent people of Gaza to "win",  Israel needs to completely crush hamas. For as long as hamas exist there will be no peace for them, and no freedom from the tyranny that controls their lives.

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