Report: Obama Was Rude and Hostile During Phone Call With Netanyahu

[massadvj]

Are you calling for an investigation of the tape?  If so, would it not turn attention away from the actual war and further chip away at America's voice in the peace process?  Who benefits from this?

No.  I am not necessarily calling for an investigation.  I don't have that kind of power anyways.  I'm just another Internet nitwit full of idle speculation.

The administration accuses the press of printing false information and no one in the press seems the least bit interested.  According to the administration, someone impersonated the POTUS and the PM in a deliberate attempt to instigate mischief, but no one seems at all interested in challenging the veracity of that claim, or in finding the culprits.  Having grown up at a time when the press used to be interested in getting at the truth, I find that curious and disheartening.

[GourmetDan]

I cringe at the "anti-Israel" question--although you did ask it very gently (thanks for that).  But I truly have never understood the "Israel can do no wrong" and "Israel first, USA second" responses. And I've heard them throughout my life.

Why is the State of Israel and her leaders ALWAYS above reproach?

“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”

― Voltaire

[240B]

I'm just another Internet nitwit full of idle speculation. Me too.

The administration accuses the press of printing false information and no one in the press seems the least bit interested.  According to the administration, someone impersonated the POTUS and the PM in a deliberate attempt to instigate mischief

That's the thing. What does this accomplish? And for whom? It is no secret to anybody, or at least it shouldn't be, how Obama feels about America, Israel, and Britain, along with his admiration of all things Muslim and Islamic. He's been very open and clear about it.
 
I don't see anything in this that I would not expect to happen. I just don't see the value added of this whole thing.

[sinkspur]

“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”

― Voltaire

Oh no.  Not another "Jews run the world" conspiracy.

If you look around, Israel is having coals heaped on her head at a rate unseen in my lifetime.  Accused of targeting children, women, of genocide--Israel is a dog in the Muslim world and the EU.  About the only place they're supported is in the US. 

Above reproach?  No. Israel is not above reproach.  But Israel is our strategic ally in the Middle East, a country bordered on two sides by terrorist groups committed to her destruction.  What alternative do we have but to back  Israel, to support Netanyahu and others who are committed to living in peace but MUST respond when attacked?

Only fools give any ground on anything but condemnation of Hamas and its actions.  Hamas, who uses children as pawns, who parade dead children in front of cameras then race to post them on youtube.  Hamas, who uses strategic materials provided to it to build tunnels so that Israelis can be kidnapped and used as pawns.

Criticize Israel all you want.  But if Israel is driven out, anyone who doesn't think these bastards will turn their attention on us is delusional.

[240B]

“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”

― Voltaire

By that logic, we are currently being 'ruled' by Muslims, homosexuals, and Black people. Three groups you absolutely are not allowed to criticize under any circumstances whatsoever.
 
The Left has no problem at all criticizing Jews and Christians. Go to any college campus if you want to witness the full brunt of what I am saying here.

[Right_in_Virginia]

I'm just another Internet nitwit full of idle speculation. 

Thanks for the smile.  (BTW, I don't agree with THIS salient point either    )

[GourmetDan]

By that logic, we are currently being 'ruled' by Muslims, homosexuals, and Black people. Three groups you absolutely are not allowed to criticize under any circumstances whatsoever.
 

I agree... so what's your point?   

[musiclady]

As to the moral ground, right now Israel occupies higher ground than the US at this point, not the least because the US is effectively siding with those who occupy the moral gutters.  Israel is not above reproach, but its failings pale into insignificance compared to those of Hamas/the Palestinians, and one normally gives a little more leeway to a people who are fighting to stop unprovoked attacks on their own civilians by terrorists, terrorists who, along with a broad swath of the world's populace, wish to see Israel - and all Jews - wiped off the face of the Earth.  Witness the joint protests by pro-palestinians and neo-nazi groups in Europe.

 

[musiclady]

Thanks for the smile.  (BTW, I don't agree with THIS salient point either    )

I'm going to chime in here in semi-ignorance, and bring up an opinion I've heard (not one I espouse), and I'd appreciate any commentary/response from anyone on any side.

This is their position:

When the UN gave Israel the land it now occupies, the innocent Palestinians living there (many Christians) were abused by the Israeli army (of which Netanyahu was a part).  Because they were aggrieved, the PLO developed and the retribution of groups like Hamas was only because of Israel's aggression and killing of innocents.  And it is because of that that the Palestinians are in the right by waging war against Israel, whose army continues to kill innocents, and has been since the late 1940's.

I repeat:  this is NOT my position, but I'd like suggestions as to how to accurately respond to it.

[240B]

I agree... so what's your point?   

Obama, is the point.

[DCPatriot]

I'm going to chime in here in semi-ignorance, and bring up an opinion I've heard (not one I espouse), and I'd appreciate any commentary/response from anyone on any side.

This is their position:

When the UN gave Israel the land it now occupies, the innocent Palestinians living there (many Christians) were abused by the Israeli army (of which Netanyahu was a part).  Because they were aggrieved, the PLO developed and the retribution of groups like Hamas was only because of Israel's aggression and killing of innocents.  And it is because of that that the Palestinians are in the right by waging war against Israel, whose army continues to kill innocents, and has been since the late 1940's.

I repeat:  this is NOT my position, but I'd like suggestions as to how to accurately respond to it.

Even though the affected Muslims were at first re-located out of their then homes and property, it would be natural for Israel to experience stiff resistance from said people.

If, due to politics or a natural disaster, the same behavior would be manifested right here in present-day America.  IOW, Eminent Domain, my arse.

The reason the European Jew was given a sliver of desert for a Homeland was because of Hitler's treatment of them before and during the Second World War.

Fact is that there are over a hundred thousand Arab Muslims residing inside Israel today and they live in peace.

Any armed conflict Israel instituted was from a purely defensive position.

Israel has clearly shown what can be achieved when they are threatened..They don't start it, but sure as hell, they finish it.

Look at the Israeli standard of living compared to their surrounding neighbors?  Look at their technology advances.

Maybe it's because it's in my blood to cheer for an underdog since boyhood.  I don't know.

The Jews are God's Chosen People for a reason.  Who am I to question it?  LOL!

[Carling]

Just making sure that everybody here knows that report was a hoax.   

[musiclady]

Even though the affected Muslims were at first re-located out of their then homes and property, it would be natural for Israel to experience stiff resistance from said people.

If, due to politics or a natural disaster, the same behavior would be manifested right here in present-day America.  IOW, Eminent Domain, my arse.

The reason the European Jew was given a sliver of desert for a Homeland was because of Hitler's treatment of them before and during the Second World War.

Fact is that there are over a hundred thousand Arab Muslims residing inside Israel today and they live in peace.

Any armed conflict Israel instituted was from a purely defensive position.

Israel has clearly shown what can be achieved when they are threatened..They don't start it, but sure as hell, they finish it.

Look at the Israeli standard of living compared to their surrounding neighbors?  Look at their technology advances.

Maybe it's because it's in my blood to cheer for an underdog since boyhood.  I don't know.

The Jews are God's Chosen People for a reason.  Who am I to question it?  LOL!

Good answer! 

[Right_in_Virginia]

I'm going to chime in here in semi-ignorance, and bring up an opinion I've heard (not one I espouse), and I'd appreciate any commentary/response from anyone on any side.

This is their position:

When the UN gave Israel the land it now occupies, the innocent Palestinians living there (many Christians) were abused by the Israeli army (of which Netanyahu was a part).  Because they were aggrieved, the PLO developed and the retribution of groups like Hamas was only because of Israel's aggression and killing of innocents.  And it is because of that that the Palestinians are in the right by waging war against Israel, whose army continues to kill innocents, and has been since the late 1940's.

There is no one quick or simple answer to this.  But may I suggest two areas for Google research that would provide some background on events that have not, historically, been widely discussed in the West.

"Al-Nakba" or "Catastrophe".  This dates back to the 1947 Israeli War of Independence and its affect on the indigenous people living in Palestine.  It is written that at least 750,000 Palestinian men, women and children were expelled from their homes by Israeli forces.  Additional claims state that these 750,000 were the lucky ones--because they lived. 

Zionism:  To better appreciate the founding of Israel in 1947, it is necessary to have an understanding of both the pros and cons of the Zionist movement.  Not just after WWII but from it's beginnings in the 1890's.

It's a little like a homework assignment--but it's well worth the effort.  The more we understand the "how" this developed, the better equipped we are to diffuse the rage and hope for peace.

[musiclady]

There is no one quick or simple answer to this.  But may I suggest two areas for Google research that would provide some background on events that have not, historically, been widely discussed in the West.

"Al-Nakba" or "Catastrophe".  This dates back to the 1947 Israeli War of Independence and its affect on the indigenous people living in Palestine.  It is written that at least 750,000 Palestinian men, women and children were expelled from their homes by Israeli forces.  Additional claims state that these 750,000 were the lucky ones--because they lived. 

Zionism:  To better appreciate the founding of Israel in 1947, it is necessary to have an understanding of both the pros and cons of the Zionist movement.  Not just after WWII but from it's beginnings in the 1890's.

It's a little like a homework assignment--but it's well worth the effort.  The more we understand the "how" this developed, the better equipped we are to diffuse the rage and hope for peace.

Thanks for the info, Right.  I have read Blood Brothers by Elias Chacour, as I have tried to understand the situation (he is a Christian Palestinian working for peace).

I agree that the why and how historical background is important in understanding what's going on.  Obviously, nothing will change in terms of understanding that Hamas is a hard core terrorist organization that kills people, bombs incessantly, and uses women and children as human shields (including photographing them, and even moving their corpses around to get more sympathy), but it's clear that the situation with the Palestinian people is more complex than a simple Israel-always-right-Palestinian-people-always-wrong perspective will allow.

I do NOT disagree with Israel's need to defend itself, nor do I disagree with the position that Israel is our close ally and needs to be supported, but I feel like the more information I have on the history, the better I am to make good decisions about how that support fleshes itself out.

[EC]

If you don't mind factually based fiction - try Michener's "The Source." It's not 100% accurate - but it gives you a good feel for the region.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Thanks for the info, Right.  I have read Blood Brothers by Elias Chacour, as I have tried to understand the situation (he is a Christian Palestinian working for peace).

Thanks for this lead.  I read the summary on Amazon .... it looks very interesting.  I think I'll go back and order it.    ^-^

[Right_in_Virginia]

If you don't mind factually based fiction - try Michener's "The Source." It's not 100% accurate - but it gives you a good feel for the region.

Wow!  I hope there's enough Summer left to get through this one.   

Thanks.

[EC]

Wow!  I hope there's enough Summer left to get through this one.   

Thanks.

 

It is a fair old doorstop of a book. Worth it though. Equal parts inventive and factual.

[musiclady]

Thanks for this lead.  I read the summary on Amazon .... it looks very interesting.  I think I'll go back and order it.    ^-^

I highly recommend it!

[musiclady]

If you don't mind factually based fiction - try Michener's "The Source." It's not 100% accurate - but it gives you a good feel for the region.

I haven't read a lot of Michener, but I've liked what I've read (Centennial, Poland, etc.).

I'll give it a look.  Thanks!