Author Topic: Boehner rules out impeachment: ‘Scam started by Democrats’  (Read 2274 times)

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Oceander

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Re: Boehner rules out impeachment: ‘Scam started by Democrats’
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2014, 01:39:24 pm »
Most governmental processes are 'political exercises'. So your calculus is if you can't win, don't try. Glad Leonidas didn't have you for an advisor. And, yeah, I'd rather lose for a 'silly' principle [the rule of law], than win with no principles at all.

It's called choosing your battles.  I'd suggest recalling some of the military "common sense" rules rangerrebew posted.  In particular: #6. If the enemy is in range, so are you. and #15. If your attack is going too well, you have walked into an ambush.

The democrats desperately want Obama to be impeached, which is why they're trying to walk republicans into an ambush.


Offline Relic

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Re: Boehner rules out impeachment: ‘Scam started by Democrats’
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2014, 02:00:08 pm »
There are two very important subtexts to this.

First - Americans are sick to the point of exhaustion of divisiveness in politics. Sure, the average American doesn't pay close attention, but they do get a sense of the constant bickering and entrenched attitudes. Pressing impeachment is simply putting a banner and a neon sign over the Republicans to advertise themselves as the party of division. Impeachment will make a statement alright, and the public will respond accordingly.

Second - This addresses why so many want impeachment, when you elect a Republican, what do you get? I honestly don't know, my political barometer, my moderate friend, has no clue. Right now, the only thing Republicans seem to be is not Democrats, (in title, not in fact). Republicans don't have to be hardcore conservatives down the line. But they do need to say what they mean, and mean what they say. Be something, not just run as "not one of them".

Oceander

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Re: Boehner rules out impeachment: ‘Scam started by Democrats’
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2014, 04:53:13 pm »
There are two very important subtexts to this.

First - Americans are sick to the point of exhaustion of divisiveness in politics. Sure, the average American doesn't pay close attention, but they do get a sense of the constant bickering and entrenched attitudes. Pressing impeachment is simply putting a banner and a neon sign over the Republicans to advertise themselves as the party of division. Impeachment will make a statement alright, and the public will respond accordingly.

Second - This addresses why so many want impeachment, when you elect a Republican, what do you get? I honestly don't know, my political barometer, my moderate friend, has no clue. Right now, the only thing Republicans seem to be is not Democrats, (in title, not in fact). Republicans don't have to be hardcore conservatives down the line. But they do need to say what they mean, and mean what they say. Be something, not just run as "not one of them".


:thumbsup:

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Boehner rules out impeachment: ‘Scam started by Democrats’
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2014, 05:24:02 pm »
It seems for some conservatives, walking into a Gatling gun proves you are brave and worthy.

What made Nixon resign was when 6 of the 17 GOP members of the House Judiciary committee joined all 21 democrats, reporting to impeach. July 28, 1973. Vote total on committee therefore 27 to 11.

Just over 1/3 of Nixon's party committee reps. turned on him, plus unanimous from opposition party.

You know there is not a dem today that would vote to impeach Obama. It would be a purely partisan adventure, and might end poorly.

What is different today? The public case has not been made, argued, and proved.   

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline speekinout

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Re: Boehner rules out impeachment: ‘Scam started by Democrats’
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2014, 08:35:09 pm »
It seems for some conservatives, walking into a Gatling gun proves you are brave and worthy.

What made Nixon resign was when 6 of the 17 GOP members of the House Judiciary committee joined all 21 democrats, reporting to impeach. July 28, 1973. Vote total on committee therefore 27 to 11.

Just over 1/3 of Nixon's party committee reps. turned on him, plus unanimous from opposition party.

You know there is not a dem today that would vote to impeach Obama. It would be a purely partisan adventure, and might end poorly.

What is different today? The public case has not been made, argued, and proved.

Ah, but the public case is made every day. It's just that the public case is in favor of 0bama. The media makes its case over and over, and has convinced many - if not most - Americans that 0bama is the victim here, and the GOP only wants to prevent him from carrying out his agenda and has no good ideas of their own. And that is the entire case; issues like the mess in the mideast, border security, a weak economy, 0bamacare, etc. are not relevant.

The dim case is made by all the major networks, almost all newspapers, Hollywood celebrities (in speeches and movies). The GOP has Fox and conservative radio hosts in rebuttal.

Offline massadvj

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Re: Boehner rules out impeachment: ‘Scam started by Democrats’
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2014, 09:46:17 pm »
I agree that impeachment is a bad idea for now. I can think of situations in which impeachment would be a good political move, even if unsuccessful.  That time is not at hand.  It may be before this president is done.

I think it is a mistake for Boehner to take it off the table without qualification, especially since this POTUS has committed acts that are clearly impeachable.  Boehner should have been more forceful in denouncing OPapaDoc's power overreaches and less emphatic about ruling impeachment out.

By stating unequivocally that impeachment is off the table he is basically saying that no matter what OPapaDoc does, the congress is not going to adhere to its constitutional responsibilities to maintain a balance of power between the branches of government.  That is an invitation for OPapaDoc to do whatever he wants.

Offline speekinout

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Re: Boehner rules out impeachment: ‘Scam started by Democrats’
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2014, 10:22:07 pm »
By stating that impeachment is off the table, Boehner weakened the dims best campaign tactic for Nov. The dims are counting on the threat of impeachment to get their voters out. If that threat is gone, the dims have nothing to run on.

And if the GOP takes the Senate, they have more ways to control what happens.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Boehner rules out impeachment: ‘Scam started by Democrats’
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2014, 10:31:20 pm »
Ah, but the public case is made every day. It's just that the public case is in favor of 0bama. The media makes its case over and over, and has convinced many - if not most - Americans that 0bama is the victim here, and the GOP only wants to prevent him from carrying out his agenda and has no good ideas of their own. And that is the entire case; issues like the mess in the mideast, border security, a weak economy, 0bamacare, etc. are not relevant.

The dim case is made by all the major networks, almost all newspapers, Hollywood celebrities (in speeches and movies). The GOP has Fox and conservative radio hosts in rebuttal.
Your claim is that conservatives are "victims" of the evil biased media. It is the ever present mantra of conservatism. Since at least Nixon's time (yet the GOP elected Nixon, Reagan,
bush I and Bush II during this time)

Yet every day I get both sides, on the same media the right says won't give them a break.

No, conservatism has made weak cases for several years. Weak candidates, making weak cases.

The latest thing is even weaker candidates, as long as they are NOT "establishment" which is yet another kind of victimology.
 

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline speekinout

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Re: Boehner rules out impeachment: ‘Scam started by Democrats’
« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2014, 10:51:32 pm »
Your claim is that conservatives are "victims" of the evil biased media. It is the ever present mantra of conservatism. Since at least Nixon's time (yet the GOP elected Nixon, Reagan,
bush I and Bush II during this time)

Yet every day I get both sides, on the same media the right says won't give them a break.

No, conservatism has made weak cases for several years. Weak candidates, making weak cases.

The latest thing is even weaker candidates, as long as they are NOT "establishment" which is yet another kind of victimology.

I can see where you would get that impression from what I said. But I certainly do not want to cast the GOP as victims. I totally dislike the vast majority of "victim" status claims.

The media *does* have an undue influence on politics, but that's because the GOP hasn't figured out how to counteract their influence. It will be a long time before the media will ever be even-handed, so there has to be another way. If I had the magic answer, I'd be a very high paid media consultant.

I do agree that conservatives have put forth too many weak candidates. That makes it even harder for the relatively unknown ones, even if they aren't so weak. But the major issue, IMO, is that the GOP hasn't found a good way to communicate their message. They don't have the media. They've had good response to some celebrity led rallies and concerts, but they don't do those nearly as often as the libs do. They don't have as strong a grass roots org. as the libs do.

You can't make your enemy state your case effectively; you have to find a better way to communicate.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Boehner rules out impeachment: ‘Scam started by Democrats’
« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2014, 10:58:19 pm »
I can see where you would get that impression from what I said. But I certainly do not want to cast the GOP as victims. I totally dislike the vast majority of "victim" status claims.

The media *does* have an undue influence on politics, but that's because the GOP hasn't figured out how to counteract their influence. It will be a long time before the media will ever be even-handed, so there has to be another way. If I had the magic answer, I'd be a very high paid media consultant.

I do agree that conservatives have put forth too many weak candidates. That makes it even harder for the relatively unknown ones, even if they aren't so weak. But the major issue, IMO, is that the GOP hasn't found a good way to communicate their message. They don't have the media. They've had good response to some celebrity led rallies and concerts, but they don't do those nearly as often as the libs do. They don't have as strong a grass roots org. as the libs do.

You can't make your enemy state your case effectively; you have to find a better way to communicate.
I pretty much agree. And you don't garner fair coverage from the media, if you call them names everyday, either.

That from Dale Carnegie's "How to Win Friends and Influence People" which ought to be required reading during charm school for those seriously interested in understanding politics.

I saw Todd Akin on TV a couple of weeks ago. Why is he on? The media gave him a chance to redeem himself, but he blew it huge. Weak candidates. Weak message.

No amount of fair coverage by the media will offset the damage he did, and will continue to do if not taken off the stage.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline speekinout

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Re: Boehner rules out impeachment: ‘Scam started by Democrats’
« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2014, 11:09:10 pm »
I pretty much agree. And you don't garner fair coverage from the media, if you call them names everyday, either.

That from Dale Carnegie's "How to Win Friends and Influence People" which ought to be required reading during charm school for those seriously interested in understanding politics.

I saw Todd Akin on TV a couple of weeks ago. Why is he on? The media gave him a chance to redeem himself, but he blew it huge. Weak candidates. Weak message.

No amount of fair coverage by the media will offset the damage he did, and will continue to do if not taken off the stage.

Definitely agree about Carnegie!!

And Akin is a very good example of the problem. He was a weak candidate that the GOP never should have put in a prominent role. But the media will be very happy to use him at every opportunity. He fits their narrative.

There must be a way for the GOP to counteract that kind of media coverage. Maybe they could find a way to do another Gingrich "Contract" that had photos of the successful politicians unified. The weak ones always are invited to appear alone so the audience focuses on their bad traits - most of which are not shared by other GOPers.

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Re: Boehner rules out impeachment: ‘Scam started by Democrats’
« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2014, 11:21:40 pm »
Since I share Palin's delusion, let me say this. Realpolitik is going to DESTROY this country. If you believe 'nothing to see here', why is 'Boo Hoo' suing? What's the basis for the argument? If Obama is exceeding his powers [I assume the basis for the action], the remedy is impeachment. If Boehner and the GOPe won't exercise that option, because "We don't want to energize the Dim base", and we can see gains, yada, yada, yada; they're not fulfilling THEIR Constitutional duties. And those duties are, I would remind them upholding the Constitution - not the latest Gallup Poll.

BRAVO!!!

Well said!! I couldn't agree more!

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"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline aligncare

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Re: Boehner rules out impeachment: ‘Scam started by Democrats’
« Reply #37 on: July 31, 2014, 12:07:22 am »
I agree that impeachment is a bad idea for now. I can think of situations in which impeachment would be a good political move, even if unsuccessful.  That time is not at hand.  It may be before this president is done.

I think it is a mistake for Boehner to take it off the table without qualification, especially since this POTUS has committed acts that are clearly impeachable.  Boehner should have been more forceful in denouncing OPapaDoc's power overreaches and less emphatic about ruling impeachment out.

By stating unequivocally that impeachment is off the table he is basically saying that no matter what OPapaDoc does, the congress is not going to adhere to its constitutional responsibilities to maintain a balance of power between the branches of government.  That is an invitation for OPapaDoc to do whatever he wants.

Excellent post. Agree in toto.

Offline massadvj

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Re: Boehner rules out impeachment: ‘Scam started by Democrats’
« Reply #38 on: July 31, 2014, 12:10:52 am »
By stating that impeachment is off the table, Boehner weakened the dims best campaign tactic for Nov. The dims are counting on the threat of impeachment to get their voters out. If that threat is gone, the dims have nothing to run on.

And if the GOP takes the Senate, they have more ways to control what happens.

He could have accomplished the political objective much more effectively without unequivocally taking impeachment off the table.

Offline speekinout

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Re: Boehner rules out impeachment: ‘Scam started by Democrats’
« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2014, 12:34:43 am »
He could have accomplished the political objective much more effectively without unequivocally taking impeachment off the table.

I guess we have to agree to disagree. I don't see how the dims could have been prevented from using impeachment as a campaign issue unless he did. If you see a way, then do explain.

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Boehner rules out impeachment: ‘Scam started by Democrats’
« Reply #40 on: July 31, 2014, 01:53:47 am »
truth_seeker wrote above:
[[ What is different today? The public case has not been made, argued, and proved. ]]

The "public case" cannot be made unless the Republicans are willing to step forward and make it.

The "public case" cannot be argued [in a Senate trial] until the House Republicans (who have the votes) vote for articles of impeachment to be tried in the Senate.

The "public case" will not be proved until that trial is held, the public watches, and then communicates its wishes to the Congress.

This does not have to happen now and shouldn't happen now.

Perhaps Obama's most egregious offense is yet to come -- the "legalization edict".

Let the democrats howl about a "pending impeachment" that they wish will happen so that they can turn Americans against the Republicans. They are too clever by half.

They'd better be careful about what they're wishin' for !!