Ukraine Separatists Didn’t Launch That Missile

[wolfcreek]

except that we've all quickly concluded - see above - that the Russians/separatists could have no Earthly reason to shoot the plane down, so any such false flag would be highly implausible.

I'm leaning more and more to the "accident" theory:  that the separatist/Russian missile operator intended to hit a Ukrainian military aircraft and, most likely through inexperience and lack of training, hit the civilian aircraft instead.

That's quite possible. Given the fact that the missile exploded before making contact (which they're designed to do) I wonder if the military planes got out of the way?

[EC]

That's quite possible. Given the fact that the missile exploded before making contact (which they're designed to do) I wonder if the military planes got out of the way?

You are trained to. It's second nature. See an incoming, you evade the thing. In a conflict between 500 lbs of boom and a very fragile aircraft - the boom usually wins. Anything that loses lock is used - I'd fire flares and chaff, waste missiles and head for the deck at pretty much terminal. Sure, you pull some Gs and your body hates you the day after - but it's alive to hate you.

[GourmetDan]

You mean when Russia took over the Crimea?  Or when the Ukrainians dumped their Russian puppet president?  Or when Ukraine pushed back against the EU in favor of Russia?  Which conduct are you referring to?  But actually your charge was that the MSM was totally ignoring Russian claims about the downing of the 777, which obviously they weren't.

Um, I included the quote wrt Ukrainian conduct right below my comment.  You must have tried really hard to miss it.

Well I'm trying to learn from the great thinkers...

Try harder...

[MACVSOG68]

 

[GourmetDan]

Yep, misrepresent what I said, ignore the point every time I call you on it and play the innocent victim.

You're a real piece of work man...

[MACVSOG68]

Yep, misrepresent what I said, ignore the point every time I call you on it and play the innocent victim.

You're a real piece of work man...

 

[GourmetDan]

Actually not.

Exposing your consistent misrepresentation, avoiding important points and invoking victimhood is always pertinent.

[MACVSOG68]

Actually not.

Exposing your consistent misrepresentation, avoiding important points and invoking victimhood is always pertinent.

Speaking of misrepresentation, how's that debunked missile launch video going?  We can all be subject to influence by less than credible sources.   Condescension can sometimes blow back on us.

[GourmetDan]

Speaking of misrepresentation, how's that debunked missile launch video going?  We can all be subject to influence by less than credible sources.   Condescension can sometimes blow back on us.

Doesn't bother me because I wasn't misrepresenting anyone.  I simply posted what I though was a video of the plane going down.  It's fine w/ me for people to point out it wasn't what it was supposed to be.  That's what the forum is for, IMO, to discuss things.

You, however, have to take your 'victories' when you can get them.

[Oceander]

Doesn't bother me because I wasn't misrepresenting anyone.  I simply posted what I though was a video of the plane going down.  It's fine w/ me for people to point out it wasn't what it was supposed to be.  That's what the forum is for, IMO, to discuss things.

You, however, have to take your 'victories' when you can get them.

At least he scores "victories"; you, not so much.

[MACVSOG68]

That's what the forum is for, IMO, to discuss things.

Bingo!  I agree 100% with you on that.

[wolfcreek]

You are trained to. It's second nature. See an incoming, you evade the thing. In a conflict between 500 lbs of boom and a very fragile aircraft - the boom usually wins. Anything that loses lock is used - I'd fire flares and chaff, waste missiles and head for the deck at pretty much terminal. Sure, you pull some Gs and your body hates you the day after - but it's alive to hate you.

Given the speed of these missiles, I doubt you have much time to dawdle.

[EC]

Given the speed of these missiles, I doubt you have much time to dawdle.

You don't have time to think about it at all, you just react. After action reports suggest it is somewhere from 6 to 45 seconds depending on the launcher - which feels like a long time to me. It seems almost instant when it happens. And I were flying things that go well under the speed of sound. Can't imagine how the jet jockeys manage.

[wolfcreek]

You don't have time to think about it at all, you just react. After action reports suggest it is somewhere from 6 to 45 seconds depending on the launcher - which feels like a long time to me. It seems almost instant when it happens. And I were flying things that go well under the speed of sound. Can't imagine how the jet jockeys manage.

Thank the Lord for onboard computers

[ABX]

Pro-Russian separatists admit shooting down MH17 in phone conversation

Ukraine’s security agency (SBU) today released two telephone recordings which indicated that Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by pro-Russian separatists.

The Kyiv Post, which published the telephone conversations, reported that the first telephone conversation made 20 minutes after the crash, was between Igor Bezler, identified as Russian intelligence and Vasili Geranin, a colonel in the Russian Federation separatist force...


Read more at: http://english.astroawani.com/election/news/show/pro-russian-separatists-admit-shooting-down-mh17-in-phone-conversation-40138?cp

[EC]

Thank the Lord for onboard computers

They help. A lot. But when you are staring down 4 incoming, they are too slow. Fastest computer ever made is the one between your ears. It's erratic, annoying and finds solutions with minimal data. 

First time I got shot at, I discovered you can barrel roll a 24. Technically not possible, it's a damned helicopter - but yes, it is possible if you need to do it.