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Offline rangerrebew

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« on: July 22, 2014, 09:36:57 AM »
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim tribute to patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness -- these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. . . . reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principles."
George Washington

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
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Offline Relic

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« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2014, 09:43:34 AM »
My own corner of the world confirms this article's premise. Younger people are disillusioned with Obama. They wouldn't vote Republican, they would just stay home, and that would have been enough to defeat Obama.

Offline Fishrrman

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« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2014, 10:57:52 PM »
Relic wrote above:
[[ My own corner of the world confirms this article's premise. Younger people are disillusioned with Obama. They wouldn't vote Republican, they would just stay home, and that would have been enough to defeat Obama. ]]

Just wondering...

Could there be anything -- anything at all -- that might sway them to consider voting Republican?

If they cannot be won, the fate of the party is sealed.

It won't last twenty years more, if that long...

Offline EC

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« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2014, 04:19:02 AM »
Just wondering...

Could there be anything -- anything at all -- that might sway them to consider voting Republican?

If they cannot be won, the fate of the party is sealed.

It won't last twenty years more, if that long...

Teach them the Constitution. Point out that it's the only way to guarantee their freedom to do what they wish, and that Republicans are in favor of getting government out of their lives as much as possible. Talk to them.

The younger people I know share a surprising amount of Repub core beliefs - they just don't know it.
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Offline Relic

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« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2014, 08:58:25 AM »
Relic wrote above:
[[ My own corner of the world confirms this article's premise. Younger people are disillusioned with Obama. They wouldn't vote Republican, they would just stay home, and that would have been enough to defeat Obama. ]]

Just wondering...

Could there be anything -- anything at all -- that might sway them to consider voting Republican?

If they cannot be won, the fate of the party is sealed.

It won't last twenty years more, if that long...

The answer is simple, and complex all at the same time. If Republicans would only mean what they say, and say what they mean.

But, that is not in the nature of politicians.

Offline Fishrrman

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« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2014, 09:50:49 AM »
Relic wrote above:
[[ The answer is simple, and complex all at the same time. If Republicans would only mean what they say, and say what they mean. ]]

Isn't this one of the main reasons why the Whigs disappeared?
Seems like they vanished with amazing speed, as well...

Offline katzenjammer

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« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2014, 09:57:34 AM »
Teach them the Constitution. Point out that it's the only way to guarantee their freedom to do what they wish, and that Republicans are in favor of getting government out of their lives as much as possible. Talk to them.

The younger people I know share a surprising amount of Repub core beliefs - they just don't know it.

If we told them that, we would be lying to them.

Offline massadvj

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« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2014, 10:07:27 AM »
Being a college prof I deal with Millennials on a daily basis and can attest to the widespread disillusionment with OPapaDoc.  I think they thought they could make their stamp on the country by electing the first black president, and by the time re-election rolled around, they did not want to deny the first black president a second term.  But now there is a sense that have been betrayed, and a realization that liberalism just doesn't work.

That does not translate to support for Republicans, however, because these kids are utterly secular and amoral.  The anti-abortion, anti-immigration and anti-gay orientation of the GOP completely turns them off. 

The only GOP candidate I have seen who resonates with Millennials is Rand Paul.
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Offline truth_seeker

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« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2014, 11:08:52 AM »
Being a college prof I deal with Millennials on a daily basis and can attest to the widespread disillusionment with OPapaDoc.  I think they thought they could make their stamp on the country by electing the first black president, and by the time re-election rolled around, they did not want to deny the first black president a second term.  But now there is a sense that have been betrayed, and a realization that liberalism just doesn't work.

That does not translate to support for Republicans, however, because these kids are utterly secular and amoral.  The anti-abortion, anti-immigration and anti-gay orientation of the GOP completely turns them off. 

The only GOP candidate I have seen who resonates with Millennials is Rand Paul.
Since younger people vote in lower percentages, does it make sense to "pander" to them?

Doesn't the GOP need to remain anti-abortion, anti-immigration and anti-gay to please their "base?" 
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Offline massadvj

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« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2014, 11:38:36 AM »
Since younger people vote in lower percentages, does it make sense to "pander" to them?

Doesn't the GOP need to remain anti-abortion, anti-immigration and anti-gay to please their "base?"

I am not sure of the answer to this, but I do know that the GOP cannot win a national election without finding at least one more market segment beyond those it has now.  It cannot afford to lose religious social conservatives, but it also cannot win without appealing to some new group, whether it be Hispanics, women or Millennials.  To get Hispanics the GOP will have to temper its position on immigration.  To get women it will have to temper its position on abortion and to get Millennials it will have to temper its position on all "victimless" crimes from abortion to drugs.

I prefer to think of this as a personality issue rather than a platform issue.  Being anti-gay marriage did not lose the Millennial vote for OPapaDoc because Millennials liked him and thought he was actually pro-gay marriage even though he stated otherwise to get elected.  In other words, personality and nuancing things the right way can make up for a lot.

Looking st the crop of potential GOP 2016 candidates, I don't see how Mitt Romney can attract any new market segment to the GOP.  I do see that in Rand Paul, but it's a long shot because he will be attacked viciously as an isolationist, Jew-hating libertarian by people within his own party.  If he has the right personality, he could overcome it, but it is a huge long shot because he will be at a money disadvantage.  Who else can appeal to new constituencies?  Christie?  I doubt he can deliver New Jersey any more than Romney could deliver Massachusetts, and Christie has no new appeal to Hispanics or Millennials.  Bush?  Maybe Bush could appeal to Hispanics, but then there is that last name.

In the end, I keep coming back to Rand Paul as the only hope for the GOP in 2016.  And don't underestimate the potential political power of Millennials.  OPapaDoc would not be there without them.  There are 77 million Millennials in the USA, and as Boomers die away they will outnumber any other aged-based subculture.     

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Offline truth_seeker

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« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2014, 12:56:15 PM »
I am not sure of the answer to this, but I do know that the GOP cannot win a national election without finding at least one more market segment beyond those it has now.  It cannot afford to lose religious social conservatives, but it also cannot win without appealing to some new group, whether it be Hispanics, women or Millennials.  To get Hispanics the GOP will have to temper its position on immigration.  To get women it will have to temper its position on abortion and to get Millennials it will have to temper its position on all "victimless" crimes from abortion to drugs.

I prefer to think of this as a personality issue rather than a platform issue.  Being anti-gay marriage did not lose the Millennial vote for OPapaDoc because Millennials liked him and thought he was actually pro-gay marriage even though he stated otherwise to get elected.  In other words, personality and nuancing things the right way can make up for a lot.

Looking st the crop of potential GOP 2016 candidates, I don't see how Mitt Romney can attract any new market segment to the GOP.  I do see that in Rand Paul, but it's a long shot because he will be attacked viciously as an isolationist, Jew-hating libertarian by people within his own party.  If he has the right personality, he could overcome it, but it is a huge long shot because he will be at a money disadvantage.  Who else can appeal to new constituencies?  Christie?  I doubt he can deliver New Jersey any more than Romney could deliver Massachusetts, and Christie has no new appeal to Hispanics or Millennials.  Bush?  Maybe Bush could appeal to Hispanics, but then there is that last name.

In the end, I keep coming back to Rand Paul as the only hope for the GOP in 2016.  And don't underestimate the potential political power of Millennials.  OPapaDoc would not be there without them.  There are 77 million Millennials in the USA, and as Boomers die away they will outnumber any other aged-based subculture.   
First, an Hispanic need not be at the top of the ticket, but if one was the VP nominee, it could likely alter the vote significantly for the Hispanic identity segment. Rubio, Martinez, Sandoval--latter two better, as governors. (Cruz is probably too easy to brand as extremist.)

Secondly, I believe Republicans focus too much on issue positions, and not enough on generally likeable and effective communicators. Clinton and Obama are responsible for 16 years of democrat rule. Young and gifted communicators.

The GOP needs to consider these two points, and more.


"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline mountaineer

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« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2014, 01:03:48 PM »
Quote
That does not translate to support for Republicans, however, because these kids are utterly secular and amoral.
It's reassuring to see that someone who's "in the trenches" with millenials on a daily basis has reached the same conclusion as I with less exposure to them.
A day without sunshine is like, you know, night.

Offline Fishrrman

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« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2014, 03:08:34 PM »

Offline massadvj

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« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2014, 08:16:11 PM »
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 08:20:37 PM by massadvj »
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Offline MACVSOG68

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« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2014, 09:32:50 PM »
Massadvj wrote:
Quote
I am not sure of the answer to this, but I do know that the GOP cannot win a national election without finding at least one more market segment beyond those it has now.  It cannot afford to lose religious social conservatives, but it also cannot win without appealing to some new group, whether it be Hispanics, women or Millennials.  To get Hispanics the GOP will have to temper its position on immigration.  To get women it will have to temper its position on abortion and to get Millennials it will have to temper its position on all "victimless" crimes from abortion to drugs.

That's exactly right.  It must recognize not only that there are new groups who contribute to the political landscape but that they are in part resulting from or contributing to our changing social and cultural norms and values.  Some of it is very unhealthy for a nation including increasing acceptability of sexual and violent entertainment which more and more frequently translates to behavior.  Another includes the increasing dependence on the government for all aspects of our personal lives.  Other facets to this changing landscape are not so much "bad" as different, just as we've gone through changes in our approach to race.

But bad or good, the GOP must find ways to bring in these new groups or continue to lose political power.  The changes in the paradigms should be carefully examined as we approach 2016.

We cannot toss out the RR, or other more conservative groups, but they in turn must recognize their political power and future depends on a Party that is willing to not only embrace them but also recognize and not just reject the changing social and political climate.
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Offline Oceander

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« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2014, 10:53:09 PM »
Massadvj wrote:
That's exactly right.  It must recognize not only that there are new groups who contribute to the political landscape but that they are in part resulting from or contributing to our changing social and cultural norms and values.  Some of it is very unhealthy for a nation including increasing acceptability of sexual and violent entertainment which more and more frequently translates to behavior.  Another includes the increasing dependence on the government for all aspects of our personal lives.  Other facets to this changing landscape are not so much "bad" as different, just as we've gone through changes in our approach to race.

But bad or good, the GOP must find ways to bring in these new groups or continue to lose political power.  The changes in the paradigms should be carefully examined as we approach 2016.

We cannot toss out the RR, or other more conservative groups, but they in turn must recognize their political power and future depends on a Party that is willing to not only embrace them but also recognize and not just reject the changing social and political climate.



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