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Offline sinkspur

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It's Time for Conservatives to stop defending Police
« on: July 21, 2014, 07:54:05 PM »
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/383312/its-time-conservatives-stop-defending-police-j-delgado

It’s Time for Conservatives to Stop Defending Police

There is nothing conservative about government violating the rights of citizens.

By A. J. Delgado

Imagine if I were to tell you there is a large group of government employees, with generous salaries and ridiculously cushy retirement pensions covered by the taxpayer, who enjoy incredible job security and are rarely held accountable even for activities that would almost certainly earn the rest of us prison time. When there is proven misconduct, these government employees are merely reassigned and are rarely dismissed. The bill for any legal settlements concerning their errors? It, too, is covered by the taxpayers. Their unions are among the strongest in the country.

No, I’m not talking about public school teachers.

I’m talking about the police.

We conservatives recoil at the former; yet routinely defend the latter – even though, unlike teachers, police officers enjoy an utter monopoly on force and can ruin — or end — one’s life in a millisecond.
 
For decades, conservatives have served as stalwart defenders of police forces. There have been many good reasons for this, including long memories of the post-countercultural crime wave that devastated, and in some cases destroyed, many American cities; conservatives’ penchant for law and order; and Americans’ widely shared disdain for the cops’ usual opponents. (A hippie being arrested is something people from all walks of life are usually happy to see.) Although tough-on-crime appeals have never been limited to conservative politicians or voters, conservatives instinctively (and, it turned out, correctly) understood that the way to reduce crime is to have more cops making more arrests, not more sociologists identifying more root causes. Conservatives are rightly proud to have supported police officers doing their jobs at times when progressives were on the other side.

But it’s time for conservatives’ unconditional love affair with the police to end.

Let’s get the obligatory disclaimer out of the way: Yes, many police officers do heroic works and yes, many are upstanding individuals who serve the community bravely and capably.

But respecting good police work means being willing to speak out against civil-liberties-breaking thugs who shrug their shoulders after brutalizing citizens.

On Thursday in Staten Island, an asthmatic 43-year-old father of six, Eric Garner, died after a group of policemen descended upon him, placing him in a chokehold while attempting to arrest him for allegedly selling cigarettes. A bystander managed to capture video, in which Garner clearly cries out: “I can’t breathe!” Even after releasing the chokehold (chokeholds, incidentally, are prohibited by NYPD protocol), the same officer then proceeds to shove and hold Garner’s face against the ground, applying his body weight and pressure on Garner, ignoring Garner’s pleas that he cannot breathe. Worse yet, new video shows at least eight officers standing around Garner’s lifeless, unconscious body.

Who can defend this?

And police department Internal Affairs divisions are nearly as concerning as the cops themselves. Last week, a Miami police officer witnessed a car driving at high speeds in a pedestrian area. When he pulled the car over, the indignant driver stormed out. “Don’t you know the [expletive] I am?”, the driver barked. It turns out the driver was a police lieutenant within . . . Internal Affairs. The department in charge of ensuring proper police behavior consists of gents like this, whose first response is to assume that cops, like members of Congress are above the law. What happened to the lieutenant? He has been transferred to “Special Investigations” which, as a local NBC reporter points out, is more a promotion than a punishment.   

Police wrongly entering private property with no right to do so and causing death? Check! Last month, an officer in Utah, while searching for a three-year-old reportd missing by his family (he was later found hiding in his own home’s basement), took it upon himself to enter the private backyard of a neighborhood home without a warrant — in clear violation of the homeowner’s Fourth Amendment rights (officers are only allowed to chuck the warrant requirement if a crime is occurring where time is of the essence). The officer – who had about as much courage as I did in gym class – was approached by the homeowner’s dog and, rather than retreat or fire at the dog’s leg, shot the dog point-blank in the head. The Salt Lake City Police Department’s reaction was to defend the officer, claiming he had a right to shoot as he was in fear for his life, and made no mention of why the officer entered private property without a warrant in the first place. Anyone who believes in upholding the Constitution should be outraged. Next time, it can just as easily be a young boy who points a toy gun at an officer, a confused elderly person, or even you.

Last month in Georgia, a SWAT team’s flash grenade landed in a baby boy’s crib. Worth noting: it was even the wrong house. 

In the past six months, in my own humble neighborhood, I have witnessed officers try to enter a home without a warrant, hoping the residents were none the wiser about their rights; forcibly evict an elderly man from his apartment without an eviction order; threaten to arrest a driver who turned onto a street where the officer had neglected to place the ‘Street Closed’ sign; and throw two teenage kids facedown on the ground for riding their bikes on the street at night.

This is to say nothing of the alarming level of increased hyper-militarization of our police forces, as covered in journalist Radley Balko’s Rise of the Warrior Cop. National Review’s John Fund and Charles Cooke have also written on the topic on this site. Small towns with swat teams and tanks? The beacon of freedom in the world is quickly becoming a police state, and no one seems to be paying much attention.

There is room for optimism, however – the right is waking up to this reality, thanks in large part to two factors. The Tea Party’s emphasis on Constitutionalism has refocused attention on the Bill of Rights. And probably more importantly, cell phone cameras are having a tremendous impact – not only in holding officers accountable but in helping to raise awareness of the overall problem. It’s easy to dismiss eyewitness claims of police brutality, but a lot harder to ignore evidence such as a video of a man suffocating to death.

The new video and photo evidence invites the troubling thought that this kind of behavior has long been routine, and is only now coming to the attention of people have led lives insulated from heavy interaction with the police. There is some statistical reason to believe police today may actually be better disciplined than they were in the past, and there’s certainly reason to hope that dashboard cams, wearable audio and video devices and other technologies will lead to better outcomes for law-abiding cops as well as law-abiding civilians.

But that won’t happen unless citizens hold the cops at least as accountable as the government holds private citizens. So, police, it’s been a nice love affair, but right now we need some space. Time to put you in the friend zone. Please don’t call – and, just in case, we’ll keep that video recording of our last encounter.




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Offline sinkspur

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Re: It's Time for Conservatives to stop defending Police
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2014, 07:57:12 PM »
Never, ever, EVER call  a cop.  There is no situation that won't be made worse by the presence of LEOs.

Like the rest of the populace, cops are less educated, more prone to emotionalism, and know that they can hide behind "I was in fear for my life."  Uniform cams should be mandatory and any cop who doesn't turn his on in a situation should be presumed to be hiding something.

It's time these thugs are as afraid of us as we are of them.
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: It's Time for Conservatives to stop defending Police
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2014, 08:02:24 PM »
The Garner incident on Staten Island drew a close resemblance to the Fullerton CA incident, whereby police beat a homeless, mentally ill man to death.

Police charged, but found not guilty by a jury.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku42PPzYEqs
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Offline Dexter

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Re: It's Time for Conservatives to stop defending Police
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2014, 08:14:03 PM »
They've used the drug war to turn the police into a domestic military, so basically the federal government has a military with the equipment to back it up that can stay home and be used against civilians. Spending billions of dollars on a war we cannot win in an effort to tell people what they can or cannot put in their own bodies is not following conservative values either.
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Offline Lando Lincoln

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Re: It's Time for Conservatives to stop defending Police
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2014, 08:17:54 PM »
I had an incident in Deadwood, South Dakota this past spring that really opened my eyes.  I am still upset over it.  I am being vague intentionally because I do not wish to recount the experience.
For the progressive, there is very little to love about the United States. Washington, Jefferson, Madison? A bunch of rotten slaveholders, hypocrites, and cowards even when their hearts were in the right places. The Declaration of Independence? A manifesto for the propertied classes. The Constitution? An artifact of sexism and white supremacy. The sacrifices in the great wars of the 20th century? Feeding the poor and the disenfranchised into the meat-grinder of imperialism. The gifts of Carnegie, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Morgan, Astor? Blood money from self-aggrandizing robber barons. Nat Rev

Offline katzenjammer

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Re: It's Time for Conservatives to stop defending Police
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2014, 08:18:05 PM »

Offline Dexter

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Re: It's Time for Conservatives to stop defending Police
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2014, 08:22:01 PM »


If we're going to do something we better do it before the federal government controls a mechanized army that no humans could ever hope to stand up to.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
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Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: It's Time for Conservatives to stop defending Police
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2014, 08:25:01 PM »
So I guess that thug in Houston who executed a police officer in cold blood, and then killed a bystander who tried to help, should be given a medal or something?
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

"The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections." -Lord Acton

Offline Dexter

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Re: It's Time for Conservatives to stop defending Police
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2014, 08:26:58 PM »
So I guess that thug in Houston who executed a police officer in cold blood, and then killed a bystander who tried to help, should be given a medal or something?

We're allowing absolutes to draw lines through what is a grey area again. Most cops are not bad people and do have good intentions. Saying the police as a whole are doing bad things for America does not mean all police are bad for America and should be shot on sight.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 08:27:56 PM by Dex4974 »
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: It's Time for Conservatives to stop defending Police
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2014, 08:36:43 PM »
Good cops turn into bad cops when they tolerate the bad cops. 

Learn to take care of yourself.  Remember this:  the primary objective of police work is for the officer to return to his family at night.  Nothing else, and no one else, matters.
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Offline speekinout

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Re: It's Time for Conservatives to stop defending Police
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2014, 08:37:05 PM »
There are good police and there are bad police. But isn't the difference in who they work for? We elect their supervisors; we're really their bosses. If the police in your city, town, county or state are bad, change the politicians until you get better ones. I think many of us have found some police on interstate roads that are not good, and that we can't do much about (I won't say how i know about that!)
But if we don't like what the police are doing, we shouldn't just blame the police. We should find politicians who know the proper role for the police force.

Offline Dexter

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Re: It's Time for Conservatives to stop defending Police
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2014, 08:41:31 PM »
Good cops turn into bad cops when they tolerate the bad cops. 

Learn to take care of yourself.  Remember this:  the primary objective of police work is for the officer to return to his family at night.  Nothing else, and no one else, matters.

What do you do when the bad cop controls your employment?
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: It's Time for Conservatives to stop defending Police
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2014, 08:47:10 PM »
You are either a person of integrity or become compromised.
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Offline Chieftain

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Re: It's Time for Conservatives to stop defending Police
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2014, 08:48:26 PM »
James Sapp, accused of shooting Vancouver cop, hung self, says Clark County ME

http://www.oregonlive.com/clark-county/index.ssf/2014/07/james_sapp_accused_of_shooting.html#incart_river

Quote
The Clark County Medical Examiner has determined that the man jailed on accusations he shot a Vancouver Police officer died of asphyxiation after hanging himself.

In addition, his death has been classified as a suicide, the ME's office declared.


The medical examiner's report on the death of James Todd Sapp, 48, was released Monday afternoon. Sapp had been discovered trying to commit suicide Thursday afternoon when deputies were conducting cell checks at the Clark County Jail. He was treated on the scene and then taken to a Vancouver hospital but was declared dead on Friday.

Sapp had been in jail since Monday, June 30, when he was arrested shortly after allegedly shooting and seriously wounded Officer Dustin Goudschaal, a Vancouver Police Department motorcycle patrol officer, moments after Goudschaal pulled Sapp over.

Sapp had been accused of first-degree attempted murder, first-degree robbery and second-degree unlawful possession of a firearm in the case. He had been awaiting arraignment when he was found trying to hang himself in his cell.

Goudschaal, who was shot seven times, has been recovering at home.  Officials said his ballistic vest helped save his life.


-- The Oregonian


American Nazi, Aryan Brotherhood, white supremacist, swastika tats, violent track record 3 decades long....shoots a police officer 7 times during a traffic stop.....exactly what is there to defend??

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Offline sinkspur

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Re: It's Time for Conservatives to stop defending Police
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2014, 08:50:52 PM »
The good news is that more and more citizens are taking video of every situation in which a cop is involved.  Video doesn't lie, which is why police departments as a whole are opposed to citizens exercising this right.

Roll your video on your camera every single time you're involved with the police.  Odds are, you're going to eventually capture some pretty awful behavior.
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Offline Dexter

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Re: It's Time for Conservatives to stop defending Police
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2014, 08:52:39 PM »
The good news is that more and more citizens are taking video of every situation in which a cop is involved.  Video doesn't lie, which is why police departments as a whole are opposed to citizens exercising this right.

Roll your video on your camera every single time you're involved with the police.  Odds are, you're going to eventually capture some pretty awful behavior.

It's very important that we don't let them make it illegal to film the police. I also think all cops should be wearing cameras that they cannot turn on/off.
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Offline speekinout

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Re: It's Time for Conservatives to stop defending Police
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2014, 08:59:08 PM »
It's very important that we don't let them make it illegal to film the police. I also think all cops should be wearing cameras that they cannot turn on/off.

I totally agree with that. It won't be a problem for the good cops, and the bad ones deserve the problem.

Offline mystery-ak

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Re: It's Time for Conservatives to stop defending Police
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2014, 09:01:40 PM »
Ah...a cop bashing thread....we have several members here with family members in LE and one member whose brother died in the line of duty.

Like every profession there are good and bad people...

Must say I don't appreciate where this thread is going...

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Offline Lando Lincoln

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Re: It's Time for Conservatives to stop defending Police
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2014, 09:12:40 PM »
Ah...a cop bashing thread....we have several members here with family members in LE and one member whose brother died in the line of duty.

Like every profession there are good and bad people...

Must say I don't appreciate where this thread is going...

Agreed myst.  My twin entered law enforcement in 1976 and he just retired.  Of course there are those who don't belong but the vast majority are good.  Despite one absolute power-hungry jerk I encountered in Deadwood, I'll take my chances with the police being on my side.  Frankly, I don't know how they do their jobs.
For the progressive, there is very little to love about the United States. Washington, Jefferson, Madison? A bunch of rotten slaveholders, hypocrites, and cowards even when their hearts were in the right places. The Declaration of Independence? A manifesto for the propertied classes. The Constitution? An artifact of sexism and white supremacy. The sacrifices in the great wars of the 20th century? Feeding the poor and the disenfranchised into the meat-grinder of imperialism. The gifts of Carnegie, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Morgan, Astor? Blood money from self-aggrandizing robber barons. Nat Rev

Offline sinkspur

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Re: It's Time for Conservatives to stop defending Police
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2014, 09:29:17 PM »
Ah...a cop bashing thread....we have several members here with family members in LE and one member whose brother died in the line of duty.

Like every profession there are good and bad people...

Must say I don't appreciate where this thread is going...

When National Review takes note of just three of the most recent instances of outrageous police behavior, you know there's a problem.  The increased militarization of local police departments, the willingness of police to shoot first and ask questions later, and a dramatic increase in the number of lawsuits alleging police brutality is an indication of law enforcement out of control. 

I have two nephews who are cops, and even they admit there's a huge problem in a majority of police departments. 

This thread is what it is.  The problem is not posting about LEO abuses.  It's LEO abuses.
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Offline speekinout

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Re: It's Time for Conservatives to stop defending Police
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2014, 09:54:09 PM »
Ah...a cop bashing thread....we have several members here with family members in LE and one member whose brother died in the line of duty.

Like every profession there are good and bad people...

Must say I don't appreciate where this thread is going...

I have relatives and friends who were/are in LE. All very good people, but one or two of them also had disagreements with the political directions their departments were taking. I certainly don't mean to be bashing cops, but I do think there are some police dep'ts that need redirecting. Maybe starting with our DoJ.

I do apologize if anyone thought I was bashing cops. There are some bad ones I won't defend, but I think those are a small percentage.

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: It's Time for Conservatives to stop defending Police
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2014, 09:57:02 PM »
Dex wrote above:
[[ If we're going to do something we better do it before the federal government controls a mechanized army that no humans could ever hope to stand up to. ]]

There are ways around this.

I suggest you read John Ross' book, "Unintended Consequences" if you have not yet read it. It's long, but worth it. A history lesson as much as a novel.

It's not necessary to stand up to the Mechanized Army. If we had fought the British strictly on their rules of engagement, we probably would have lost. New methods of "engagement" can be devised.

In the novel, the "targets" become the unexpected. Bureaucrats, mid-level officials, etc.

Unpredictable. An entirely new kind of conflict.

I would recommend Ross' book to every member of this forum.

Online DCPatriot

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Re: It's Time for Conservatives to stop defending Police
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2014, 10:08:04 PM »


It's time these thugs are as afraid of us as we are of them.



Isn't that the basis for their behavior to begin with?   :shrug:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"If you want to change the world, go home and love your family".    ...Mother Teresa

"It's not the mountain before you, but the pebble in your shoe"      ....or something like that

Offline sinkspur

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Re: It's Time for Conservatives to stop defending Police
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2014, 10:36:19 PM »
Nah.  They're not afraid of anybody.  Get into any situation with any officer, and watch how quickly he/she pulls his gun.

Read the accounts at one of the numerous websites documenting the number of dogs killed by cops==dogs in their own yards, barking, yes, but protecting their territories.  I can't tell you how angry this makes me.

For some reason, LEOs resort to lethal force at the drop of a hat.  No, they're not afraid of you.  They rule you.  You will do what they tell you to do or else.

Hate to be so cynical, but months and months of reading about these abuses by cops is getting old.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: It's Time for Conservatives to stop defending Police
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2014, 10:42:46 PM »
That poor man in New York was choked to death.  The only thing that will convict the cop of manslaughter (or more) is the video.  Otherwise, the other seven around him would be standing up for him and defending him.

That's disgusting.  And that is the kind of stuff that has gone on since time immemorial.  Not any more.
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