Author Topic: Is it Compassion. Or is it Stupidity?  (Read 1397 times)

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Online EC

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Is it Compassion. Or is it Stupidity?
« on: July 17, 2014, 06:21:25 AM »
Looking at the current SNAFU at the border is painful. Tens of thousands of kids coming in. Reports from south of the border of kids abused physically and sexually and held for ransom by the very people paid a lifetime's savings to smuggle them across. Complicit governments and cops, who probably take a handy chunk of change from the coyotes.

It's a problem.

It is easy enough to say "close the border, already!" It is doable, both technically and financially. All that is needed is the will to do so. And then what?

Can you, personally, sit there by the hypothetical border fence and watch young children suffer and starve? If you can, don't comment, I got no interest in knowing you. I'll lay money that every last person who reads this would take the time out to help any kid in need, be it by calming them down while the mall security finds their parents, feeding them, taking them to a shelter or even taking them in. People are pretty awesome even at their worst, and protecting kids is hard wired into even the grumpiest old bastard.

The Left knows this well. "Think of the children" was the go to phrase before "Racist" got it's shoes on and came out running. How many times have you heard that in the last 40 years? A million times or so? A mild exaggeration to be sure, but one that feels like the truth. Which is what makes this current invasion so dangerous. Americans can easily seem rude, loud, obnoxious, and insular. You know that, there have been enough jokes about it. Yet they are also - usually - kind hearted, expansive, charitable, and, for want of a better word, loving.

What are these kids owed? Pragmatically, nothing. Got enough neglected and suffering kids in the country already, without importing more. Yet most of them are tough as hell, willing to take risks that would make the average Millennial need to change their underwear twice, and possibly, though not definitely, an asset to the nation as a whole.

So where do you draw the line?
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Offline Chieftain

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Re: Is it Compassion. Or is it Stupidity?
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2014, 07:32:54 AM »
Securing the border has to go hand in hand with a plan to repatriate these kids as quickly as possible.  They have no business being here, and the longer they stay the stronger the message remains to send even more.  One does no good without the other.




Offline massadvj

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Re: Is it Compassion. Or is it Stupidity?
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2014, 09:17:37 AM »
Personally, I draw the line at the problem, and the problem is socialism.  If there was no government assistance available for these kids, the private sector would be taking care of them and the private sector would sort it out.  There would be churches and charitable foundations down there helping people, there would be a second collection in every church in the country, and citizens would be donating millions voluntarily.  Thousands upon thousands of families would be volunteering to be foster parents.  Instead, we have a government attempting to micromanage a crisis of its own making, and we have a citizenry that is resentful and angry.

What should be done now?  The government should allow entry to anyone who comes and is not a security threat.  But it should provide zero humanitarian aid.  If individual states want to provide aid, that is up to them.  If churches want to do it, that is up to them.  It simply is not the job of the federal government to house and feed refugees.  The job of the federal government is to secure the border so that any threat to the national security can be assessed and dealt with.  Anyone who is deemed not to be a threat should be allowed entry.  But they should not be supported financially in any way, shape or form. 

That is the proper constitutional response.  However, the practical politics of the matter dictate that the president appear "caring" and that means government enabling, and so we have a snowball.

Finally, I hope someone in our government is investigating the relationship between OPapaDoc and these Mexican criminal cartels.  I suspect that there is at least a symbiotic relationship there, and perhaps more.  The situation in Central America is not significantly different than it has been in several generations.  Yet, this happens just months before a midterm election that is the last chance for this administration to salvage its social engineering ambitions; an election in which the administration had hoped to make immigration reform the central issue.  Granted, the strategy backfired on them, but the timing of everything seems to be quite a coinky dinky.
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Offline aligncare

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Re: Is it Compassion. Or is it Stupidity?
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2014, 09:31:12 AM »
Compassion is a tricky matter. The question alone exposes how perplexing compassion is. Most people who are spiritually connected believe every one of god's creatures is deserving of kindness – even those who have transgressed. But, logically your kindness must be tempered by a common sense appraisal of the other's motivations and a keen awareness of possible outcomes and potential dangers to your own self from said acts of kindness.
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Offline alicewonders

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Re: Is it Compassion. Or is it Stupidity?
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2014, 11:09:48 AM »
I agree that the humanitarian aid needs to come from individuals/charities rather than the government.  The government's job is to secure our border.  I'm beginning to think this "loophole in the law" regarding non-contiguous countries was created with nefarious intent.  I know the stated purpose of the law was to protect children in instances of sex trafficking - but I can't help but think it was worded in a way to create a loophole.  I believe this law was created during the Bush administration - well, he was for amnesty too, pushing for it real hard as a matter of fact.

Anyway, to address the subject of this thread - we should show compassion to the children in the form of temporary help - before they are sent back to their homelands.  Of course, this is not going to happen - this is not the intent of this crisis.  The whole point is to ship them all over the country.  The left is brilliant in the way that they plan their strategies - they not only take advantage of a crisis - they also create a crisis to take advantage of, and they will be committed to this plan for years and even generations.  You have to give them credit, for they think in terms of the long vision - I think our side has a problem with that when it comes to strategy. 
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Re: Is it Compassion. Or is it Stupidity?
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2014, 01:39:24 PM »
It isn't compassion but it is a form of stupidity.  Its progressive political correctness gone wild.
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Online EC

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Re: Is it Compassion. Or is it Stupidity?
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2014, 08:41:59 PM »
What alice said on another thread got me thinking.

It would be cheaper in the long run to simply annex most of central america. The optics would be horrible though.
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Offline speekinout

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Re: Is it Compassion. Or is it Stupidity?
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2014, 09:08:32 PM »
I think it's always a mistake to focus only on the short term problem. What to do with the kids currently here illegally is a short term issue. What we do with them has to be part of our long range plan (I know; this admin. doesn't plan, but let's pretend).

Do we want to have open borders? If so, we have to make long range plans for holding centers (or whatever we want to call them). There will always be the need. We'll also have to set aside money in the Fed'l budget for maintaining these centers, and for transitioning people out of them. I don't think we ever want permanent refugee camps, but maybe some will argue for that.

Do we want to close the borders and go back to a legal process for immigration? If so, we have to send that message to these SA countries immediately. First by speeches, communications with their national gov'ts, then by withholding US funds from their countries. We could use the funds we withhold in that way to offset the money we spend on caring for their citizens. Then we should start sending all illegals back to their country of origin. No legal procedures are necessary. There are ways to apply for refugee status without crossing the border with Mexico, so we don't have to give everyone who does that a court hearing. We certainly should make sure the people (they're not all kids) are fed, housed, and given medical care as necessary for the short time they'd be here.

In short, what are we trying to accomplish? And what's the most effective and humane way to do it?

Offline alicewonders

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Re: Is it Compassion. Or is it Stupidity?
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2014, 10:13:04 PM »
What alice said on another thread got me thinking.

It would be cheaper in the long run to simply annex most of central america. The optics would be horrible though.


Thanks EC, here's what I said on the other thread:

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,143384.msg584458.html#msg584458

"Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper in the long run to just annex these countries and call them American territories?  I say that with only a bit of sarcasm.  Seriously, let's just spend the money that we're spending on fences, border security, law enforcement, court costs, food stamps and all the other benefits they garner when they come here.......on some real infrastructure and take over these crummy countries, then these hard-working people can enjoy the opportunities they we enjoy - and be fully contributing members of our society, paying taxes and serving in a capacity that builds their own communities.

Seriously.  Is that an unthinkable option, considering the costs that the present situation is exacting on our country?  Just take 'em over - BOOM!"


Let's face it, we're supporting these countries now - just not in a very productive way - sort of like how the "War On Drugs" has made drug cartels and politicians filthy rich.  Things are not going well, and if they keep going this way - it's not going to end well for us.  I think it's time we started thinking outside the box. 

Of course, expecting a politician to think long term........yeah, right. 
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Re: Is it Compassion. Or is it Stupidity?
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2014, 01:19:56 AM »
No politician thinks long term. Their maximum attention span is 5 years, then they have to pander like crazy to be elected again. Both sides do it, to keep the gravy train rolling along. However, that is a thought for another article.

There is a case to be made for governmental aid to foreign countries as opposed to private aid. Governmental aid comes with conditions and can actually be aimed better than private charity.
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Offline alicewonders

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Re: Is it Compassion. Or is it Stupidity?
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2014, 01:37:22 AM »
Yes, if governmental aid is targeted to increasing opportunity for private sector growth.  What we see now is government aid targeted to increasing dependence on said gov't.  But then, that gets back to the subject of politicians thinking short-term to keep the gravy train rolling.  That is the crux of the problem and it will ultimately be our ruination.
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Offline massadvj

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Re: Is it Compassion. Or is it Stupidity?
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2014, 10:53:15 AM »
Yes, if governmental aid is targeted to increasing opportunity for private sector growth.  What we see now is government aid targeted to increasing dependence on said gov't.  But then, that gets back to the subject of politicians thinking short-term to keep the gravy train rolling.  That is the crux of the problem and it will ultimately be our ruination.

Governmental "aid" cannot be targeted to anything because government is incapable of being incorruptible.  Even if a program starts out well, it will become corrupted down the road as new people take power.  The only realistic solution is the one this country had for its first 150 years: constitutionally limited government.
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Re: Is it Compassion. Or is it Stupidity?
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2014, 11:02:52 AM »
Governmental "aid" cannot be targeted to anything because government is incapable of being incorruptible.  Even if a program starts out well, it will become corrupted down the road as new people take power.  The only realistic solution is the one this country had for its first 150 years: constitutionally limited government.

We had a very simple and effective solution for several hundred years, which might best be described as "don't care."
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Offline massadvj

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Re: Is it Compassion. Or is it Stupidity?
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2014, 12:46:22 PM »
We had a very simple and effective solution for several hundred years, which might best be described as "don't care."

I disagree.  Many people cared.  They did not rely on government to take care of the problems.  Problems were solved community by community, parish by parish.  Yes, there were poor people and pockets of desperation.  There are still poor people and pockets of desperation.  The difference is we are no longer free.

 I think if you compare the overall welfare of the American people today to what it was in Calvin Coolidge's time, the wealth distribution was far more balanced under a capitalist structure than it is under a managed socialist structure.  There is a reason for that.  Socialism creates a privileged class based on access to power.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 12:49:41 PM by massadvj »
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Re: Is it Compassion. Or is it Stupidity?
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2014, 06:49:50 PM »
No politician thinks long term. Their maximum attention span is 5 years 

A politician worries about the next election, a statesmen about the next generation.  By that standard we have no statesmen in the country.
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Offline Oceander

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Re: Is it Compassion. Or is it Stupidity?
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2014, 10:07:14 PM »
No politician thinks long term. Their maximum attention span is 5 years, then they have to pander like crazy to be elected again. Both sides do it, to keep the gravy train rolling along. However, that is a thought for another article.

There is a case to be made for governmental aid to foreign countries as opposed to private aid. Governmental aid comes with conditions and can actually be aimed better than private charity.

And why cannot private charity come with conditions as well?  And it seems to me that aiming primarily at the kleptocrats and other parasites is not really within the spirit of the concept of being "aimed better".

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Re: Is it Compassion. Or is it Stupidity?
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2014, 01:45:47 AM »
And why cannot private charity come with conditions as well?  And it seems to me that aiming primarily at the kleptocrats and other parasites is not really within the spirit of the concept of being "aimed better".

Oh it can - the conditions are just unenforceable, private charities not having much in the way of military or diplomatic clout. The only real conditions on private charity is whether to give or not, and Americans are generous to a fault when something bad happens. After the tsunami, Japan literally had to beg people to stop sending aid.

In tinpot shitholes, the only really effective form of private charity is physical presence. Sending food is all very well - and it is appreciated immensely if it gets to the people it is meant for. That's a big if. I've seen warehouses filled with rotting food. Had an entire consignment of cement flat out stolen by some local bigwig once - that was weird.
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Offline PzLdr

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Re: Is it Compassion. Or is it Stupidity?
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2014, 02:03:25 PM »
Stupidity. This is why animal shelters always go for puppies over dogs. Puppies are cute. You just WANT to help them, and take them into your homes. Not so much older dogs. So they've sent you puppies.

But they're not puppies. They're like that old technique from the Age of Sail, where, when it's dead calm, you row your anchor ahead, drop it, and pull the boat to the anchor. And that's what they're doing, and God help us, Beck and the rest of the useful idiots are buying it hook, line and sinker.
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