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Online mystery-ak

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« on: July 13, 2014, 09:14:18 AM »

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Offline PzLdr

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« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2014, 09:48:22 AM »
Admit the mistake, and bring back the 1911A1. If you want to jazz it up, get a Para-Ordnance DAO model.
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Offline Chieftain

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« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2014, 10:43:01 AM »
Admit the mistake, and bring back the 1911A1. If you want to jazz it up, get a Para-Ordnance DAO model.

Exactly right.  The .45 was developed as a military sidearm because you could shoot an attacker with that dinky issue .38 and they would keep on coming.  Hit an attacker in the leg with a .45 and the leg comes off...



 :beer:

Offline Lando Lincoln

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« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2014, 10:53:10 AM »
I'm not military, but I grew up with a rifle in my hand starting with a .22 in my crib.  Some years ago, I started shooting handguns.  It took me about a nanosecond to discern the difference between a 9mm and a .45.  In a life or death situation, make it the .45.

That said, I personally have an affinity for the. 357 Mag.  I like wheel-guns a lot.





For the progressive, there is very little to love about the United States. Washington, Jefferson, Madison? A bunch of rotten slaveholders, hypocrites, and cowards even when their hearts were in the right places. The Declaration of Independence? A manifesto for the propertied classes. The Constitution? An artifact of sexism and white supremacy. The sacrifices in the great wars of the 20th century? Feeding the poor and the disenfranchised into the meat-grinder of imperialism. The gifts of Carnegie, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Morgan, Astor? Blood money from self-aggrandizing robber barons. Nat Rev

Online massadvj

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« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2014, 11:05:27 AM »
A 9mm hollow point will do as much damage as a 45 caliber but it doesn't have the range.  It doesn't much matter when our soldiers are told to stand down.  What weapon they have doesn't much matter if they aren't allowed to use it.

I would not be surprised if our current policy is to use 9mm ourselves and give 45 caliber ammo to our enemy.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2014, 11:06:57 AM by massadvj »
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Online andy58-in-nh

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« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2014, 11:33:05 AM »
A 9mm hollow point will do as much damage as a 45 caliber but it doesn't have the range.  It doesn't much matter when our soldiers are told to stand down.  What weapon they have doesn't much matter if they aren't allowed to use it.

I would not be surprised if our current policy is to use 9mm ourselves and give 45 caliber ammo to our enemy.

I have carry pistols of both calibers (9mm Springfield XD/15 rounds, and .45 Taurus PT-145/10 rounds) and feel reliably safe depending on either one.

On the other hand, I can (and do) use specialty hollow-point personal defense ammunition, whereas our servicemen are limited to FMJ/ball ammo by international law.

You'll get endless arguments on the subject, especially pertaining to muzzle energy, energy transfer and wound channel size, etc., to which I will not add. The bottom line is that any reliable combination of firearm, ammunition and especially training will suffice.
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Offline alicewonders

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« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2014, 11:38:23 AM »
A 9mm hollow point will do as much damage as a 45 caliber but it doesn't have the range.  It doesn't much matter when our soldiers are told to stand down.  What weapon they have doesn't much matter if they aren't allowed to use it.

I would not be surprised if our current policy is to use 9mm ourselves and give 45 caliber ammo to our enemy.

I carry a 9mm because, as a woman, a bigger caliber is a bit much for me in terms of recoil.  For my needs - stopping someone that means me harm - it's fine.  It's all in where you hit them, and I'm a pretty good shot - I beat my husband and brother on the shooting range.  In a military situation, I'm sure it's different.  I'm like you Massad - with our government, my mind always goes to ulterior motives. 
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Online massadvj

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« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2014, 11:52:27 AM »
I carry a 9mm because, as a woman, a bigger caliber is a bit much for me in terms of recoil.  For my needs - stopping someone that means me harm - it's fine.  It's all in where you hit them, and I'm a pretty good shot - I beat my husband and brother on the shooting range.  In a military situation, I'm sure it's different.  I'm like you Massad - with our government, my mind always goes to ulterior motives.

I have been cursed with small, weak hands and I agree with you.  I use a Ruger SR9 9mm semi and it is very suited to my needs.
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Online 240B

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« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2014, 12:06:57 PM »
Exactly right.  The .45 was developed as a military sidearm because you could shoot an attacker with that dinky issue .38 and they would keep on coming.  Hit an attacker in the leg with a .45 and the leg comes off...



 :beer:

The word 'assassin' is derived from 'hashishan'. That is, the Arabs would get all messed up before the go into combat. So if you shoot them with the standard high velocity/low caliber rounds, all you are doing is punching a hole in him, and he will still keep coming.
 
The .45 was developed for 'knock down'. The idea being that if you get the guy on the ground, he will not get back up. This was before hollow points. But anyway, today, you cannot use a hollow point in combat under U.N. guidelines.
 
But yes, you shoot a hole in a guy's leg and you're going to piss him off but he will still keep coming. You take the leg right off, then you have his attention. That was the idea.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.

Offline alicewonders

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« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2014, 12:54:57 PM »
I have been cursed with small, weak hands and I agree with you.  I use a Ruger SR9 9mm semi and it is very suited to my needs.

I carry a Bersa Ultra Compact and it fits my hands perfectly and I shoot very well with it.  I do have special 9mm bullets in it that are supposed to penetrate heavy and leather clothing better. 
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Offline EC

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« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2014, 06:43:32 PM »
Concealed, I'd rather not say - let us call it small, compact and 9mm. Actually a bit too small, I have big hands, and I get brass burns once in a while because of the ridiculous costs of left handed variants.

Work - Sig P556 and a pair of 12 gauge street sweepers. The Sig is a fun little pistol to play with if you are over 6 foot tall.
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Offline Chieftain

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« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2014, 07:11:52 PM »

The word 'assassin' is derived from 'hashishan'. That is, the Arabs would get all messed up before the go into combat. So if you shoot them with the standard high velocity/low caliber rounds, all you are doing is punching a hole in him, and he will still keep coming.
 
The .45 was developed for 'knock down'. The idea being that if you get the guy on the ground, he will not get back up. This was before hollow points. But anyway, today, you cannot use a hollow point in combat under U.N. guidelines.
 
But yes, you shoot a hole in a guy's leg and you're going to piss him off but he will still keep coming. You take the leg right off, then you have his attention. That was the idea.

A lot of what you just said applied to the Japanese too.  If they were all whipped up and charging, a .38 service revolver wouldn't even slow 'em down....but that .45 ACP slug would put 'em on the ground and keep 'em there...the ballistic shockwave the round ball generates in a body on impact is fearsome and destructive.  It's less than half an inch in diameter going in....



 :beer:

Offline PzLdr

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« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2014, 12:34:39 AM »

The word 'assassin' is derived from 'hashishan'. That is, the Arabs would get all messed up before the go into combat. So if you shoot them with the standard high velocity/low caliber rounds, all you are doing is punching a hole in him, and he will still keep coming.
 
The .45 was developed for 'knock down'. The idea being that if you get the guy on the ground, he will not get back up. This was before hollow points. But anyway, today, you cannot use a hollow point in combat under U.N. guidelines.
 
But yes, you shoot a hole in a guy's leg and you're going to piss him off but he will still keep coming. You take the leg right off, then you have his attention. That was the idea.

The Assassins were an offshoot of Shia Islam, and with the Zealots of Judea fame, were history's first suicide knifers. They were extirpated by Hulegu Quan on his way to put paid to the Abbasid Caliphate in Baghdad in 1256.

The 1911 and 1911A1 were developed by the Army as a result of the Philippine Insurrection. The .38 revolver then in issue was incapable of putting down for the count Moro tribesmen [yet another bunch of jolly Muslims]. After first resorting to old Colt Cavalry revolvers, the Army bought the John moses Browning semi-auto pistols marketed by Colt. We carried them from there through 'Nam.
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