truth_seeker wrote above:
[[ We trained Iraqi troops a great cost and time. And when they vastly outnumbered the opposition, they threw down their weapons and ran away, trying to get rid of their uniforms.
That has nothing to do with either Bush or Obma, but has to do with the futility of the delusion they will behave as "trained." ]]
Who was it, many years ago in reference to the Vietnamese, made the comment about "hearts and minds" ??
G.W. Bush isn't "to blame" for attempting with Iraq and Afghanistan the same approach that The West has used in previous times with other [non-islamic] countries throughout history.
Where G.W. Bush erred -- and nearly everyone else around him (and a large chunk of "conservatives", as well) -- was in believing that this tack would work in islamic countries.
I've written about this before, and I'll state it again:
The reason our efforts were destined to fail in both Iraq and Afghanistan (and I possibly was the first to point this out over at TOS when I was back there) is because it's pointless to overthrow "the leaders" of islamic nations. We accomplish nothing by replacing one of their "governments" with another.
The reason is that "the leaders" in dar al-islam aren't really the leader.
I realize that's a play on words that doesn't seem to make much sense. But the real "leader" in any islamic nation is not someone living, breathing, elected, chosen, or self-appointed.
Nope. The leader of islamic nations died over 1,400 years ago. Yet the populations of those countries still follow HIM first, and whoever happens to be "in power" second.
Regardless of what written documents govern the day-to-day business of islamic countries, the REAL "manual of operations" is a book written roughly 1,400 years ago by that long-dead person. So it is, and so it will ever be, so long as those nations remain "islamic".
That's why one of the first things the Iraqis did when they "wrote" a new Constitution, was to make islam "the state religion", as per that Constitution.
When I saw that, I knew from that point on that whatever "efforts" we (as a nation of The Judeo/Christian West) were futile there. What would eventually happen was but a matter of time, not certainty.
I don't know whether Mr. Bush (and those around him) even considered this. I sense the bulk of their prior historical training and attitudes were such that they never even stopped to consider it. But, as I've said here before, "reality is what it is; it is not what we believe it to be".
In Iraq and Afghanistan, G.W. Bush, his advisors, and many Americans ran straight up against such truth. It's not a rewarding or comforting notion to know that our time and effort there was, essentially, wasted -- as were the lives of those lost and maimed. But again, reality is what it is.
Bush & company believed it to be something else.
Truly, a matter of "hearts and minds".
