Author Topic: Poll: Americans Blame Bush, Not Obama, For Iraq's Current Chaos  (Read 1556 times)

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http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/poll-iraq-blame-bush-obama-withdrawal-right-thing-to-do



TOM KLUDT – JULY 7, 2014, 10:49 AM EDT
Republicans have hammered President Obama in recent weeks for the unraveling security situation in Iraq, arguing that he should have left some American troops behind in the troubled country. But a poll released Monday found that Americans widely disagree with the GOP.

The latest national survey from Quinnipiac University showed that 58 percent of American voters believe Obama's decision to withdraw troops in 2011 was the right thing to do.

Conversely, 61 percent said that George W. Bush's decision to invade in 2003 was the wrong thing to do. Fifty-one percent of voters blame Bush for the current calamity in Iraq.

With Islamic militants storming through Iraq, the GOP's criticism of Obama has centered around the 2011 withdrawal, the terms of which were actually negotiated under Bush in 2008. Republicans such as Mitt Romney and Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) have assailed the President for the withdrawal, insisting that the decision squandered security gains made in Iraq after the 2007 troop surge.

Obama didn't earn high marks in the poll either, with 55 percent saying they disapprove of his handling of the situation in Iraq. And despite Bush's own woeful numbers on Iraq, 39 percent said he conducted foreign policy better than Obama. Thirty-five percent gave the edge to the current President.

The neoconservative pundit Bill Kristol, a vocal cheerleader of the war, said last month that Obama could rally the country to get behind yet another military intervention in Iraq, but the Quinnipiac poll said otherwise.

According to the survey, 56 percent said it is not in America's national interest to get involved there, although 72 percent said it is likely that the U.S. will intervene if the militants take over Iraq.

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Online musiclady

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Re: Poll: Americans Blame Bush, Not Obama, For Iraq's Current Chaos
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2014, 05:52:53 PM »
So 51% of Americans are ignorant......

What's new??   :smokin:
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Offline Oceander

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Re: Poll: Americans Blame Bush, Not Obama, For Iraq's Current Chaos
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2014, 05:57:49 PM »
So 51% of Americans are ignorant......

What's new??   :smokin:

you beat me to it.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Poll: Americans Blame Bush, Not Obama, For Iraq's Current Chaos
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2014, 05:59:27 PM »
What questions were asked? 

Polls are all about the way questions are asked. 

In addition, that 51% blame Bush for what is clearly Obama's creation in Iraq shows a definite lack of knowledge about what caused the current situation.   

Regardless,  Iraq is of a piece with everything else, all of which contributes to a perception of incompetence on Obama's part.
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Poll: Americans Blame Bush, Not Obama, For Iraq's Current Chaos
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2014, 06:40:59 PM »
Guess what: Americans blame Bush for getting us into it in the first place, then they blame Obama for handling it poorly, since he took over.

Any last gaspers still wanting to shed yet more blood and treasure are clearly hanging on to a minority view.

Investing hope, treasure or blood in muslims generally is not a good investment. See Iraq and Afghanistan for recent examples.

There may be exceptions, with Kurds, perhaps Turkey. 

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Re: Poll: Americans Blame Bush, Not Obama, For Iraq's Current Chaos
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2014, 07:24:56 PM »
Guess what: Americans blame Bush for getting us into it in the first place, then they blame Obama for handling it poorly, since he took over.

Any last gaspers still wanting to shed yet more blood and treasure are clearly hanging on to a minority view.

Investing hope, treasure or blood in muslims generally is not a good investment. See Iraq and Afghanistan for recent examples.

There may be exceptions, with Kurds, perhaps Turkey.

Not sure who you're referring to as "last gaspers," but most people who are critical of Obama's handling of Iraq think we should have left a residual force there instead of yanking everyone out, and are not "wanting to shed yet more blood and treasure."

I, for one, believe that if Obama had not been a foreign policy idiot for the sake of political gain, none of this mess would have happened, and the blood and treasure we DID spend would not have been in vain.

Bush had Iraq under control.

Obama destroyed what our troops bled and died for.
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Offline Chieftain

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Re: Poll: Americans Blame Bush, Not Obama, For Iraq's Current Chaos
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2014, 07:46:01 PM »
Bullshit.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Poll: Americans Blame Bush, Not Obama, For Iraq's Current Chaos
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2014, 07:50:20 PM »
Not sure who you're referring to as "last gaspers," but most people who are critical of Obama's handling of Iraq think we should have left a residual force there instead of yanking everyone out, and are not "wanting to shed yet more blood and treasure."

I, for one, believe that if Obama had not been a foreign policy idiot for the sake of political gain, none of this mess would have happened, and the blood and treasure we DID spend would not have been in vain.

Bush had Iraq under control.

Obama destroyed what our troops bled and died for.

We trained Iraqi troops a great cost and time. And when they vastly outnumbered the opposition, they threw down their weapons and ran away, trying to get rid of their uniforms.

That has nothing to do with either Bush or Obma, but has to do with the futility of the delusion they will behave as "trained."

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Re: Poll: Americans Blame Bush, Not Obama, For Iraq's Current Chaos
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2014, 08:29:32 PM »
We trained Iraqi troops a great cost and time. And when they vastly outnumbered the opposition, they threw down their weapons and ran away, trying to get rid of their uniforms.

That has nothing to do with either Bush or Obma, but has to do with the futility of the delusion they will behave as "trained."

I'm still not sure who you're referring to as "last gaspers."

This post and your last post seem unconnected to each other and to the point of the thread.

And you didn't answer my question.....
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Offline Dexter

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Re: Poll: Americans Blame Bush, Not Obama, For Iraq's Current Chaos
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2014, 08:51:03 PM »
We could have avoided all of the problems completely if we had never invaded Iraq unnecessarily in the first place. That said, I don't think Bush is to blame anyway, because I don't believe he was ever truly in charge. We probably would have invaded Iraq no matter who was in the White House at the time.
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Offline Dexter

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Re: Poll: Americans Blame Bush, Not Obama, For Iraq's Current Chaos
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2014, 08:52:26 PM »
We trained Iraqi troops a great cost and time. And when they vastly outnumbered the opposition, they threw down their weapons and ran away, trying to get rid of their uniforms.

That has nothing to do with either Bush or Obma, but has to do with the futility of the delusion they will behave as "trained."

People are typically unwilling to die for what they don't passionately believe in. You can't build a Democracy and expect people that don't believe in it to uphold it after you leave.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 08:57:12 PM by Dex4974 »
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Offline Carling

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Re: Poll: Americans Blame Bush, Not Obama, For Iraq's Current Chaos
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2014, 09:11:00 PM »
We trained Iraqi troops a great cost and time. And when they vastly outnumbered the opposition, they threw down their weapons and ran away, trying to get rid of their uniforms.

That has nothing to do with either Bush or Obma, but has to do with the futility of the delusion they will behave as "trained."

Exactly, which is why it was stupid to leave US bases around for ISIS and AQ to use.  If the US was going to leave Iraq, the former bases should have been incinerated after the last troop left.  Instead, Obama gave ISIS functional bases.  The terrible idea was not leaving permanent US bases in Iraq, though.  What a stupid idea by both Bush and Obama it was to agree to pull out troops after announcing a timetable.  Iraq even told the US that they weren't ready, yet Obama still pulled out US troops. 
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Offline Dexter

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Re: Poll: Americans Blame Bush, Not Obama, For Iraq's Current Chaos
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2014, 09:22:19 PM »
Exactly, which is why it was stupid to leave US bases around for ISIS and AQ to use.  If the US was going to leave Iraq, the former bases should have been incinerated after the last troop left.  Instead, Obama gave ISIS functional bases.  The terrible idea was not leaving permanent US bases in Iraq, though.  What a stupid idea by both Bush and Obama it was to agree to pull out troops after announcing a timetable.  Iraq even told the US that they weren't ready, yet Obama still pulled out US troops.

Call me a conspiracy nut, but part of me thinks this was all intentionally engineered to force the continued presence of the U.S in the ME. It will be interesting to see how all of this plays out. If it somehow ends in us waging another full scale war you might want to take a closer look.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 09:22:56 PM by Dex4974 »
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Re: Poll: Americans Blame Bush, Not Obama, For Iraq's Current Chaos
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2014, 09:24:25 PM »
We could have avoided all of the problems completely if we had never invaded Iraq unnecessarily in the first place. That said, I don't think Bush is to blame anyway, because I don't believe he was ever truly in charge. We probably would have invaded Iraq no matter who was in the White House at the time.

Should we have gone into Iraq? In all honesty, no. Concentrating on completely denuding Afghanistan of the Taliban and their AQ affiliates would have been more sensible. Give AQ no where to run and no where to hide. Saddam were a total bleep, but he didn't tolerate their stripe in his country, and Iraq itself had as much involvement with 9/11 as Norway.

Still, go in we did. Took out the regime, and my God, we were welcomed. Stayed a while, got things stable - then the Worm came to power. He forgot the lessons of WW2, assuming he ever knew them - when you win a war, you don't ask the country you defeated about things - you bleep well tell them.
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Offline Dexter

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Re: Poll: Americans Blame Bush, Not Obama, For Iraq's Current Chaos
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2014, 09:29:02 PM »
Should we have gone into Iraq? In all honesty, no. Concentrating on completely denuding Afghanistan of the Taliban and their AQ affiliates would have been more sensible. Give AQ no where to run and no where to hide. Saddam were a total bleep, but he didn't tolerate their stripe in his country, and Iraq itself had as much involvement with 9/11 as Norway.

Still, go in we did. Took out the regime, and my God, we were welcomed. Stayed a while, got things stable - then the Worm came to power. He forgot the lessons of WW2, assuming he ever knew them - when you win a war, you don't ask the country you defeated about things - you bleeping well tell them.

North Korea, China, and countless places in Africa have just as many atrocious human rights violations as anybody. I don't really really think the hindsight bright side makes up for what happened at all. It's not our responsibility to cleanse the world of everybody that runs their country in a way we don't like.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 09:29:39 PM by Dex4974 »
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Re: Poll: Americans Blame Bush, Not Obama, For Iraq's Current Chaos
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2014, 09:32:56 PM »
Should we have gone into Iraq? In all honesty, no. Concentrating on completely denuding Afghanistan of the Taliban and their AQ affiliates would have been more sensible. Give AQ no where to run and no where to hide. Saddam were a total bleep, but he didn't tolerate their stripe in his country, and Iraq itself had as much involvement with 9/11 as Norway.

Still, go in we did. Took out the regime, and my God, we were welcomed. Stayed a while, got things stable - then the Worm came to power. He forgot the lessons of WW2, assuming he ever knew them - when you win a war, you don't ask the country you defeated about things - you bleeping well tell them.

Obama showed how much he knew about WWII when he said his grandfather liberated Auschwitz (which was liberated, of course, by Russian troops).

Of course, had the media called him on that silly lie in 2008 (and the 57 states, and Jeremiah Wright, etc. etc.) he would never have been elected, and the world wouldn't be in this mess.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

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Offline Dexter

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Re: Poll: Americans Blame Bush, Not Obama, For Iraq's Current Chaos
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2014, 09:36:17 PM »
Obama showed how much he knew about WWII when he said his grandfather liberated Auschwitz (which was liberated, of course, by Russian troops).

Of course, had the media called him on that silly lie in 2008 (and the 57 states, and Jeremiah Wright, etc. etc.) he would never have been elected, and the world wouldn't be in this mess.

The people that are truly destroying the United States and everything it once stood for are not going to constantly be in the public's eye, in my opinion. They are hiding themselves and pulling strings from the shadows, because cowards like that would never make themselves vulnerable enough to be a target. Obama is a small fry, a front man, an empty suit. He's not the evil you're looking for, he is simply their representative.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 09:38:19 PM by Dex4974 »
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Re: Poll: Americans Blame Bush, Not Obama, For Iraq's Current Chaos
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2014, 09:41:49 PM »
The people that are truly destroying the United States and everything it once stood for are not going to constantly be in the public's eye, in my opinion. They are hiding themselves and pulling strings from the shadows, because cowards like that would never make themselves vulnerable enough to be a target. Obama is a small fry, a front man, an empty suit. He's not the evil you're looking for, he is simply their representative.

Oh, I don't have to "look for" evil.

I see it every day in everything he's doing.

That, of course, doesn't mean that his handlers aren't evil.

But it's naïve to think he's just a puppet.  He hates this country, and loves that he gets to be the one to destroy it.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

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Offline Dexter

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Re: Poll: Americans Blame Bush, Not Obama, For Iraq's Current Chaos
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2014, 09:43:45 PM »
Oh, I don't have to "look for" evil.

I see it every day in everything he's doing.

That, of course, doesn't mean that his handlers aren't evil.

But it's naïve to think he's just a puppet.  He hates this country, and loves that he gets to be the one to destroy it.

If he has handlers as you seem to agree he probably does, then he is indeed a puppet. They pull the strings and he responds accordingly. I believe that little would be different no matter who the president was right now.
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Re: Poll: Americans Blame Bush, Not Obama, For Iraq's Current Chaos
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2014, 09:47:57 PM »
If he has handlers as you seem to agree he probably does, then he is indeed a puppet. They pull the strings and he responds accordingly. I believe that little would be different no matter who the president was right now.

You left out a critical word from my post.

I said it's naïve to think he's JUST a puppet.

And I think you're entirely wrong regarding a lack of difference no matter who was president.

He is most likely the only person who could have fulfilled the leftist, Marxist dream of bringing down America.

He had to be black.  He had to be smooth talking.  He had to be faux suave.

And he had to be a hard core ideologue.

Letting him off the hook because he has handlers is looking evil in the eye and letting him off the hook.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

May 3, 2016 - the day the Republican party left ME.  I am now without a Party, and quite possibly without a country.  May God have mercy!

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Re: Poll: Americans Blame Bush, Not Obama, For Iraq's Current Chaos
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2014, 09:49:56 PM »
It's not our responsibility to cleanse the world of everybody that runs their country in a way we don't like.

No, it's not. But if you do need to go in, you go in to win and you do the job properly. Bush understood that. The Worm? All he knows is how to divide and destroy.
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Re: Poll: Americans Blame Bush, Not Obama, For Iraq's Current Chaos
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2014, 09:52:17 PM »
If he has handlers as you seem to agree he probably does, then he is indeed a puppet. They pull the strings and he responds accordingly. I believe that little would be different no matter who the president was right now.
I don't believe he has handlers, or that he is a puppet. He has too much power in the position he has—without his position, and the ability to gain and hold onto it, his “handlers” would be powerless. I do, however, think he has collaborators.
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Offline Dexter

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Re: Poll: Americans Blame Bush, Not Obama, For Iraq's Current Chaos
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2014, 09:55:45 PM »


Letting him off the hook because he has handlers is looking evil in the eye and letting him off the hook.

Nobody said anything about letting him off the hook. My belief that is he mostly just a puppet does not mean that I believe he is ignorant to what he is doing. He knows full well that he is looking Americans in the face and lying to them.
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Re: Poll: Americans Blame Bush, Not Obama, For Iraq's Current Chaos
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2014, 10:20:51 PM »
Nobody said anything about letting him off the hook. My belief that is he mostly just a puppet does not mean that I believe he is ignorant to what he is doing. He knows full well that he is looking Americans in the face and lying to them.

You're disagreeing with your previous post.

You said he wasn't evil.  He was just a "representative."

I think you're absolutely wrong.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

May 3, 2016 - the day the Republican party left ME.  I am now without a Party, and quite possibly without a country.  May God have mercy!

Offline Chieftain

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Re: Poll: Americans Blame Bush, Not Obama, For Iraq's Current Chaos
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2014, 10:29:37 PM »
A couple of you need to get a room.......

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