Author Topic: The Immigration Reform Collapse  (Read 395 times)

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Offline Oceander

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The Immigration Reform Collapse
« on: July 02, 2014, 09:35:49 AM »
The Wall Street Journal
July 1, 2014 6:58 p.m. ET

Quote
The Immigration Reform Collapse
A bipartisan failure that will hurt the economy—and especially the GOP.


Immigration reform has finally collapsed in Congress for this year, and President Obama and House Republicans are both responsible.  The larger loss is for America's economy and dynamism, but as a political matter Republicans are likely to pay the steeper price.

On Monday Mr. Obama chastised Republicans for the failure, but it took two not to tango.  The President now says he'll act unilaterally, but his threat all along that he would do so is one reason so many Republicans concluded that they couldn't trust him to honestly implement any reform.  One price of Mr. Obama's legal abuses is that few in Congress think he will faithfully execute any law as written.

The President is also responsible for the current spectacle of federal incompetence at the border with Mexico.  The worst Republican restrictionists couldn't have come up with a better plan to kill reform than the sight of thousands of children flooding over the border into camps that Homeland Security can't manage.  Many of the children are fleeing poverty and mayhem in Central America, but many have been sent by parents who heard rumors that once they get here Mr. Obama will let them stay.

Immigration reform requires some confidence that the federal government can police the border, implement E-Verify for new business hires, and manage revamped guest-worker programs.  The televised sight of chaos on the border has been a godsend to GOP nativists.

Many Democrats also didn't really want reform.  They'd rather retain the issue as a political bludgeon to further portray Republicans as anti-Hispanic and anti-Asian.  They figure this will drive Democratic turnout in a few key Senate races in November, and all but guarantee a Democratic presidential victory in 2016.  They're delighted to change the campaign subject from the VA, ObamaCare, the IRS and the summer of jihad to the GOP's anti-immigration wing.

Yet none of that absolves the House GOP from failing to even hold a reform vote this year. Immigration and trade are the two pro-growth issues on which a bipartisan compromise should be possible, and the Senate proved it by passing its bill last year.  A few Republicans were willing to stand up to the talk-radio demagogues, notably Marco Rubio in the Senate and Paul Ryan and Mario Díaz-Balart in the House.

But a majority of GOP Members wanted an immigration reform to pass as long as they didn't have to vote for it.  Before Majority Leader Eric Cantor's primary loss in Virginia last month, the House leadership's private whip count was 144 GOP votes in favor of passing a bill this year.  Afterwards it was half that.

The fallout from failure now will be more partisan blame-shifting and suspicion.  The President will try to please his base, and bait the GOP's restrictionist wing, by easing deportations by executive order as the election nears.  Many Republicans will take the bait and overreact, increasing the perception of the GOP as hostile to minorities.

It's possible that Republicans could revisit the issue next year if they get a majority in the Senate, and that will be one test of sincerity for such GOP counselors as Bill Kristol.  They claim to favor reform—just not this year.  But immigration opponents always find a new excuse for doing nothing, and some conservative fantasists claim that the GOP can be a majority party merely by squeezing out an ever-larger share of the declining white share of the electorate.  That is a recipe for President Clinton.

And speaking of Hillary, she will claim she wants reform while doing everything in her power behind the scenes to block it until 2017. Our guess is that Mr. Obama will also be less receptive to reform in 2015 because his main goal in his last two years will be electing a Democratic successor to cement a legacy as a politically realigning President.

Meanwhile, the American economy will be the biggest loser.  Contrary to Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions and other Republicans who've adopted AFL-CIO economics, immigrants do not steal American jobs.  The U.S. has a labor shortage in the industries that immigrants are most likely to fill.

At the low-wage end of the economy, jobs go begging in agriculture, hospitality and in some places construction.  At the high end, the U.S. needs more engineers, software designers, biologists and so much more.  America's loss of human capital will become the rest of the world's gain, as potential immigrants return to China and India or settle in Canada or Australia.  An America growing at a dispiriting 2% for five years amid declining real incomes needs better from its political class.

Emphasis added

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: The Immigration Reform Collapse
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2014, 11:37:33 AM »
Anybody in the GOP willing to discuss the topic, is branded as un-American, open-borders proponent, and amnesty lover. Perry, Ryan, Cantor, Rubio, McCain etc.

The ones doing the name calling have brought you Governor Tancredo, President Buchanan, etc.






Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: The Immigration Reform Collapse
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2014, 08:42:16 PM »
Anybody in the GOP willing to discuss the topic, is branded as un-American, open-borders proponent, and amnesty lover. Perry, Ryan, Cantor, Rubio, McCain etc.

The ones doing the name calling have brought you Governor Tancredo, President Buchanan, etc.

When they call for giving 30+ million illegals citizenship, they are supporting amnesty, no matter what cute name they call it by.
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

"The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections." -Lord Acton

Offline Oceander

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Re: The Immigration Reform Collapse
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2014, 08:50:37 PM »
When they call for giving 30+ million illegals citizenship, they are supporting amnesty, no matter what cute name they call it by.

Once again that idiotic strawman gets run up the flagpole:  immigration either stays the way it is or it becomes a path to citizenship for illegals, with nothing in between.

Here's a clue:  if the republicans/conservatives refuse to even consider immigration reform because some people have opined that reform should include a path to citizenship for illegals, then that is precisely what they will get: an expressway to citizenship for illegals.  Why?  Because immigration reform is coming, one way or the other, and if republicans/conservatives do not participate, then it will be run single-handedly by liberals.  The only way for republicans/conservatives to avoid so-called "amnesty" is for them to lead the reform, not gamely follow after liberals/democrats.

Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: The Immigration Reform Collapse
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2014, 08:57:02 PM »
Once again that idiotic strawman gets run up the flagpole:  immigration either stays the way it is or it becomes a path to citizenship for illegals, with nothing in between.

Here's a clue:  if the republicans/conservatives refuse to even consider immigration reform because some people have opined that reform should include a path to citizenship for illegals, then that is precisely what they will get: an expressway to citizenship for illegals.  Why?  Because immigration reform is coming, one way or the other, and if republicans/conservatives do not participate, then it will be run single-handedly by liberals.  The only way for republicans/conservatives to avoid so-called "amnesty" is for them to lead the reform, not gamely follow after liberals/democrats.

That's abject bullshit.  All of the illegals are going to vote Democrat no matter who gives them amnesty.  They want socialism and free stuff which is what the Democrats are the party of and always will be.  They are not going to vote Republican even if every single Republican votes to given them instant citizenship.
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

"The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections." -Lord Acton

Online Fishrrman

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Re: The Immigration Reform Collapse
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2014, 08:59:53 PM »
Oceander wrote:
[[ immigration reform is coming, one way or the other, and if republicans/conservatives do not participate, then it will be run single-handedly by liberals.  The only way for republicans/conservatives to avoid so-called "amnesty" is for them to lead the reform...]]

Are you joking?
Can you not see what has been happening for the past several months?

Tell me this, Oceander -- do you really, REALLY believe that the democrats have any intention of enforcing the laws regarding immigration, be they reformed, or not?

Why would they be inclined to enforce reformed laws, when they are in the process of achieving what they have dreamed for years: overwhelming the Republicans and the white/Euro Americans with a numerical superiority of nonwhites that will be impossible to win elections against?

What we are witnessing now is the left's PLAN for "immigration".
They have no intention of creating or enforcing a secure southern border ever again.
They are trying their best to ERASE that border, but more than that, they are trying to erase the concept of what and why the border exists.

As Nancy Pelosi said (speaking of everyone SOUTH OF the border), "we are ALL 'Americans'"....

Could she have expressed the sentiments and the intent of the democrats any more succinctly ??

Republicans "leading" reform is like Charlie Brown charging at Lucy's football.
He keeps believing that THIS TIME, he's gonna win.
But we know what the story is going to be.

Charlie Brown will never learn.
Will the Pubbies ???

Offline Oceander

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Re: The Immigration Reform Collapse
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2014, 09:11:13 PM »
That's abject bullshit.  All of the illegals are going to vote Democrat no matter who gives them amnesty.  They want socialism and free stuff which is what the Democrats are the party of and always will be.  They are not going to vote Republican even if every single Republican votes to given them instant citizenship.

Then you've already conceded defeat, on several levels.  First, you're engaging in the same sort of tribal collectivism progressives/liberals use to justify their fascism.

Second, you're denying to others the same respect for the individual's free will that conservatives demand for themselves - you're assuming that "they" (illegals, non-anglo immigrants from Mexico, etc) are missing some essential human quality and cannot be persuaded by logic and common sense, the way that us "real humans" can be persuaded.

Third, you're conceding that republican/conservative ideas and policies are so bereft of value that there is no way to persuade someone to accept them - you're either born with them or you're not, and if you're not you'll never agree with them.

Fourth, you're operating under the mistaken impression that the republicans/conservatives can become a majority party again solely on the traditional white SoCon voting base.  That's not going to happen.


Which leads to a question:  why continue wasting your energy fighting against what you've already conceded is the inevitable? 

Offline Oceander

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Re: The Immigration Reform Collapse
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2014, 09:12:34 PM »
Oceander wrote:
[[ immigration reform is coming, one way or the other, and if republicans/conservatives do not participate, then it will be run single-handedly by liberals.  The only way for republicans/conservatives to avoid so-called "amnesty" is for them to lead the reform...]]

Are you joking?
Can you not see what has been happening for the past several months?

Tell me this, Oceander -- do you really, REALLY believe that the democrats have any intention of enforcing the laws regarding immigration, be they reformed, or not?

Why would they be inclined to enforce reformed laws, when they are in the process of achieving what they have dreamed for years: overwhelming the Republicans and the white/Euro Americans with a numerical superiority of nonwhites that will be impossible to win elections against?

What we are witnessing now is the left's PLAN for "immigration".
They have no intention of creating or enforcing a secure southern border ever again.
They are trying their best to ERASE that border, but more than that, they are trying to erase the concept of what and why the border exists.

As Nancy Pelosi said (speaking of everyone SOUTH OF the border), "we are ALL 'Americans'"....

Could she have expressed the sentiments and the intent of the democrats any more succinctly ??

Republicans "leading" reform is like Charlie Brown charging at Lucy's football.
He keeps believing that THIS TIME, he's gonna win.
But we know what the story is going to be.

Charlie Brown will never learn.
Will the Pubbies ???


Nope.  I'm not joking in the least.  And as I said in reply to Atomic Cow, it's rather depressing to see so many who've already conceded defeat.  Why continue to fight against what you've already conceded is inevitable?

Online Fishrrman

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Re: The Immigration Reform Collapse
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2014, 09:42:27 PM »
Oceander wrote above:
[[ Why continue to fight against what you've already conceded is inevitable? ]]

Then I guess you'd rather give up against what could be inevitable?
As in, "if you're going to be raped, might as well relax and enjoy it?"

I don't "concede" anything.
The future is NOT "inevitable" so long as we are willing to find the intestinal fortitude to do what needs to be done.

First, secure the border.
NOTHING resembling progress can occur until this is done.

Next, make it clear to the illegals already here that they will NEVER be permitted to be citizens or to have the vote.

After that, begin identifying and deporting the undesirables, and YES, I mean all those "children migrants", as well.

Finally, work to remove entitlements to illegals. If they're going to be here, make them work for every scrap of bread. Call me mean-spiritied if you wish. I don't care.

Aside: if we do all these things, won't we essentially be returning to the same "immigration policy" as we had, say, circa 1962 or so ??
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 09:43:27 PM by Fishrrman »

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: The Immigration Reform Collapse
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2014, 09:57:13 PM »

Nope.  I'm not joking in the least.  And as I said in reply to Atomic Cow, it's rather depressing to see so many who've already conceded defeat.  Why continue to fight against what you've already conceded is inevitable?
I talked recently with a young fellow that manages a local fast food franchise. He is Hispanic and the restaurant is El Pollo Loco, one of my favorites.

So he initiated the discussion. He indicates their IS ground to be gained with Hispanics for conservatism. He stated he favors Republicans. I believe him.

Anybody betting the future on holding back the inevitable tide of demographics is delusional.  The challenge is to form a conservative message which attracts wider support, not nativist fear.

Should we argue for a more secure border? Yes.

Should we hold out for mass deportations? Not unless we want the opposition to raise the spectre of the Holocaust, etc.

Immigration reform needs to be pragmatic. Insisting on impossible outcomes is not practical, nor would it be a winning strategy, unless the goal is attracting  only an ever contracting slice of Americans.


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