Author Topic: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China  (Read 72447 times)

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Oceander

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #875 on: April 01, 2014, 02:33:35 pm »
I believe there were also some hard copies of Eric Holder e-mails dealing with Fast and Furious.

Romney ran in 2008 as well?

Offline massadvj

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #876 on: April 01, 2014, 03:21:14 pm »
Romney ran in 2008 as well?

Heh.  That slipped by me.

Offline NavyCanDo

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #877 on: April 01, 2014, 06:55:06 pm »
Romney ran in 2008 as well?


That was an April Fools joke on you, honest.    I meant 2012.
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Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #878 on: April 01, 2014, 11:47:33 pm »
Source: Aviation Week

shows. The trouble with talking heads is that short sound bites don’t really allow us to take a deep dive into the issues.

We arranged to have an extended interview with Greg Feith, a former investigator for the National Transportation Safety Board and today a consultant for private industry and another of the talking heads. Feith investigated two accidents that may have particular relevance to MH370: the pilot-suicide crashes of Egyptair 990 and a Silk Air 737 in Indonesia. He’s familiar with the national cultures involved and events leading to conclusions of these two previous incidents. Feith early in the MH370 events concluded this incident has its roots in the cockpit of the Boeing 777.

He’s appeared throughout the MH370 search on CNN and NBC, among other places. Here is our interview with Feith.


A former lead crash investigator for the US National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) doesn’t believe the wreckage of Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370 will ever be found—and with it, the data recorded on the black boxes will be lost to the investigation.

“I hope I am wrong but I personally don’t believe we will ever find the wreckage. I think we will find pieces that drifted,” Greg Feith, the investigator, said in an exclusive interview with Leeham News and Comment.

“I don’t believe the information that’s available right now, as I know it and has been publicized, will be enough to come up with a single cause or probable cause,” he said in an interview March 31.

Feith believes there will be several plausible theories that all will point to a deliberate act by someone with intimate knowledge of flying the Boeing 777, most likely one of the pilots. Too many deliberate actions maneuvering the airplane and turning off communications systems occurred to have any plausible mechanical failure explanation. He completely discounts theories that a fire, either in the electronics bay or involving lithium-ion batteries being transported in a cargo bay, disabled the airplane. He also discounts a theory that there was a depressurization that incapacitated the pilots and allowed the 777 to meander over the skies of the Gulf of Thailand, Malaysia and the Strait of Malacca before turning south 3,000 miles over the Indian Ocean before running out of fuel.

“When you look at the way the systems shut down just prior to the last communications—the transponder, then ACARS…” and the fact that ACARS had “pinging” communication with satellites after the transmission of data stopped, tells this veteran investigator that human intervention was responsible.

Some hypothesized that the airplane flew on auto pilot on its diverse flight path after pilots were disabled by fire. Feith discounted this as well.

“The transponder is turned off with a switch of a switch. ACARS goes off line with a few key strokes,” Feith told us. “If there was a fire, the auto pilot would have gone off line.”

Fire could not have disabled the transponder, he said. There are different wire bundles for the five radios, the two transponders and the ACARS precisely to avoid a single-source fire capable of disrupting these eight communications devices.

“There is no centralized area where a fire could take all these out at the same time,” he said.

As for the related theory that the auto pilot took over after the crew was disabled by hypoxia, the series of left and right hand turns belies this, he said. If the crew were overcome, the airplane would have continued on its original course to Beijing. Instead, it made a “shallow” left turn after its last radio communication with Malaysian Air Traffic Control to a new course almost behind its original course. Then, over the Strait of Malacca, it made a right turn, a left turn and another left turn going south over the Indian Ocean.

Citing his sources familiar with the investigation, Feith said these were shallow banks of perhaps 20 degrees, normal turns that would not have alerted passengers that anything was out of the ordinary.

“The auto pilot isn’t smart enough [on its own] to make the maneuvers the airplane did,” Feith said.

All the altitude changes that have been reported in the media are incorrect, he said, citing his sources. The airplane never left its cruising altitude of 35,000 ft.

Feith believes that all the turns were part of a deception plan by whoever was in control of the airplane. He doubts this person was a hijacker, who wouldn’t have the knowledge or the skill level of all the systems of the 777, nor a hijacker holding a gun to the head of the pilots.

If a hijacker intruded into the cockpit and commanded the pilots to shut down communications, a savvy pilot would have surreptitiously found a way to alert authorities, Feith said. When switching off the transponder, the pilot could have easily switched to 7700 (an Emergency code) or 7500 (hijacking), or easily depressed the radio button on the control wheel to transmit in the blind. “None of this happened.”

A fire of any kind in the electronics bay or the cargo hold where the lithium-ion batteries were stored is improbable, he said. The 777 has ample smoke and fire detectors to alert the crew, which then would have radioed an emergency and a return to Kuala Lumpur, where fire equipment is prepared for these emergencies. “None of this happened.”

http://leehamnews.com/2014/03/31/mh370-wreckage-probable-cause-may-never-be-found-says-ex-ntsb-investigator/

Greg Feith is one of the most respected air accident/crash investigators in the world.  I would trust his analysis beyond anyone else's.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2014, 11:47:54 pm by Atomic Cow »
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Offline NavyCanDo

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #879 on: April 10, 2014, 06:36:30 pm »
Ambulance chasing lawyers are going to keep pushing the fire theory. You can make more money out of suing Boeing than an airline barely making a profit who employed a suicidal pilot.

As for the location of the plane, I still think that because of questionable satellite photos, and floating garbage not associated with the plane important resources were diverted hundreds if not thousands of miles away from the actual crash site wasting valuable time. 
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Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #880 on: April 11, 2014, 03:06:54 am »
Scuttlebutt on the various aviation sites is that they have found at least one of the 777's data recorders.

There should be a regularly scheduled press conference in an hour or two IIRC.
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

"The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections." -Lord Acton

Online mountaineer

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Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing --- FOUND?
« Reply #881 on: April 29, 2014, 03:42:32 pm »
Quote
AUSTRALIA (CNN/SEVEN NETWORK) — A private Australian company says it has found what it believes is wreckage of a plane in the ocean.

But leaders of the search for the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 are dismissing the claim.

"This is probably the most difficult search in human history," said Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott. He also admitted the chance of finding debris on the ocean surface is slim to none.

He says efforts will now focus on the ocean floor.

But Adelaide-based exploration company, GeoResonance, believes authorities have been looking in the wrong place.

It started its own search for the missing aircraft on March 10.

"The technology we use was originally designed to find nuclear warheads, submarines. Our team in the ukraine decided we should try and help," said David Pope of GeoResonance.

The company surveyed over 2 million square kilometers of the possible crash zone, using images obtained from satellites and aircraft.

Scientists focused their efforts north of the flight's last known location, using over 20 technologies to analyze data, including a nuclear reactor.
 They couldn't believe what they found in the Bay of Bengal.

"Our team was very excited when we found what we believe to be the wreckage of a commercial airliner," Pope said.

"We identified chemical elements and materials that make up a Boeing 777," said Pavel Kursa, of GeoResonance.

They sent an initial report to authorities while the black box still had two weeks of battery power.

And then verified their findings by analyzing images from the same area on March 5, three days before the plane disappeared.

"The wreckage wasn't there prior to the disappearance," Pope said.

The full report was delivered on April 15.

"We're not trying to say that it definitely is MH 370 but it's a lead that should be followed up," Pope said.

Carl Dorsch, of Tellus Resources, has used the company's technology for oil and gas exploration.

He believes they could be onto something.

"I just thought they had a moral duty," Dorsch said.

Seven News tried to contact the office of search coordinator Angus Houston today. But there was no response.
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Online mountaineer

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #882 on: April 29, 2014, 03:44:42 pm »
Australian exploration company claims to have found missing Malaysia Airlines jet MH370
By PTI | 29 Apr, 2014, 08.16PM IST
Quote

KUALA LUMPUR: An Australian marine exploration firm today claimed that it has found the wreckage of the crashed Malaysian jet in the Bay of Bengal, 5,000 km away from the current search location in the Indian Ocean.

 Adelaide-based GeoResonance yesterday said it had begun its own search for the missing flight MH370 on March 10, the Star newspaper reported.

 GeoResonance's search covered 2,000,000 square kilometres of the possible crash zone, using images obtained from satellites ...


Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/34386256.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
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Offline alicewonders

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #883 on: April 29, 2014, 03:48:40 pm »
Australian exploration company claims to have found missing Malaysia Airlines jet MH370
By PTI | 29 Apr, 2014, 08.16PM IST

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/34386256.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

For the sake of closure and for the families of the missing - I hope this turns out to be correct. 

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Offline musiclady

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #884 on: April 29, 2014, 04:34:25 pm »
For the sake of closure and for the families of the missing - I hope this turns out to be correct.

Amen!
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Offline ABX

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #885 on: April 29, 2014, 04:35:11 pm »
Quote
"This is probably the most difficult search in human history," said Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott. He also admitted the chance of finding debris on the ocean surface is slim to none.

I think a lot of arm chair searchers and conspiracy theorists don't really grasp the extent of this search. Think of the size of the US (including Alaska), multiply that by six. Then imagine trying to find something in that area the size of a couple of school buses. BUT, it can be above or below water, up to miles and miles deep so it isn't just looking along a two dimensional surface. Then, take into consideration it may be demolished into tens of thousands of small pieces that could be spread out along the top or below the surface. Add to that when you are searching on the ocean, you are searching on a dynamic landscape that is ever changing and flowing. Plus, there aren't people every few hundred feet or even miles that could spot something, like on land.  They might as well be looking for something on the moon.

Oceander

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #886 on: April 29, 2014, 11:12:10 pm »
I think a lot of arm chair searchers and conspiracy theorists don't really grasp the extent of this search. Think of the size of the US (including Alaska), multiply that by six. Then imagine trying to find something in that area the size of a couple of school buses. BUT, it can be above or below water, up to miles and miles deep so it isn't just looking along a two dimensional surface. Then, take into consideration it may be demolished into tens of thousands of small pieces that could be spread out along the top or below the surface. Add to that when you are searching on the ocean, you are searching on a dynamic landscape that is ever changing and flowing. Plus, there aren't people every few hundred feet or even miles that could spot something, like on land.  They might as well be looking for something on the moon.

I imagine it would be easier to find something like this on the Moon, even from Earth itself.

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Malaysia Airlines Flight - witnessed by sailor going down in flames?
« Reply #887 on: June 04, 2014, 12:45:46 pm »
Sailor says she saw Flight MH370 go down in flames
By David K. Li
NY Post
June 3, 2014 | 3:50pm
Quote
A British woman, sailing the Indian Ocean in March, believes she saw the missing Malaysia Airlines jet going down in flames and smoke.

Katherine Tee, a 41-year-old Liverpool resident, just came forward and filed a report with authorities last weekend.

The sailor said she and her husband were en route to Phuket, Thailand, after a 13-month sea journey when she allegedly spotted a flaming object in the night sky.

“I was on a night watch. My husband was asleep below deck and our one other crew member was asleep on deck,” she told the Phuket Gazette.

“I saw something that looked like a plane on fire. That’s what I thought it was. Then, I thought I must be mad.”

Flight MH370 went missing shortly after its departure in the early hours of March 8. An international search has yet to turn up any evidence of where the jetliner, with 239 passengers and crew on board, might have gone.

“It caught my attention because I had never seen a plane with orange lights before, so I wondered what they were,” she said.

“I could see the outline of the plane, it looked longer than planes usually do. There was what appeared to be black smoke streaming from behind it.”

Tee also reported seeing two other nearby planes, and she assumed those aircraft would have reported any distressed jet.

“There were two other planes passing well above it — moving the other way — at that time. They had normal navigation lights. I remember thinking that if it was a plane on fire that I was seeing, the other aircraft would report it,” she said.

“And then, I wondered again why it had such bright orange lights. They reminded me of sodium lights. I thought it could be some anomaly or just a meteor. It was approaching to cross behind our stern from the north. When I checked again later, it had moved across the stern and was moving away to the south.”

Tee and her husband arrived in Phuket on March 10 and only then did she begin to realize the significance of what she might have seen.

Tee was slow to report the sighting because her memory is fuzzy about the exact time it happened.

“I wasn’t sure of the date or time [of the sighting]. I am still not,” Tee said.

“I did think that what I saw would add little, and be dismissed with the thousands of other sightings that I assumed were being reported. I thought that the authorities would be able to track [the plane's] GPS log, which I assumed was automatically transmitted, or something like that.”

The world traveler still isn’t 100 percent sure of what she actually spotted.

“’Most of all, I wasn’t sure of what I saw. I couldn’t believe it myself, and didn’t think anyone would believe me when I was having trouble believing my own eyes,” said Tee.

“I didn’t even consider putting out a Mayday at the time. Imagine what an idiot I would have looked like if I was mistaken, and I believed I was. So I dismissed it, and got on with the business of fixing myself and my marriage.”

It was only this past weekend that Tee and her husband filed a report to the Joint Agency Coordination Center, the Australian organization coordinating the search for Flight MH370.

Tee said she regrets not speaking up a long time ago.

“Will this help the authorities of the families get closure? I have no idea. All I can confirm is that I have since learnt that we were in the right place at the right time, so it seems possible, but I chose to sweep it under the carpet and now I feel really bad,” Tee said.

“Maybe I should have had a little more confidence in myself. I am sorry I didn’t take action sooner.”
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Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight - witnessed by sailor going down in flames?
« Reply #888 on: June 04, 2014, 10:58:29 pm »
Sailor says she saw Flight MH370 go down in flames

I'll file that away into the "370 BS Folder."
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

"The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections." -Lord Acton

Offline flowers

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #889 on: June 22, 2014, 02:53:48 pm »
Revealed: Captain Zaharie Shah is the 'chief suspect' in official MH370 investigation

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2664882/Captain-missing-MH370-flight-revealed-chief-suspect-Malaysias-official-police-investigation.html

Quote
The captain of MH370 is now 'chief suspect' in Malaysia's official police investigation into the ongoing mystery of the Malaysia Airlines jet's disappearance - after investigators found suspicious evidence from a flight simulator in his home.

Captain Zaharie Shah, 53, reportedly used his home simulator to practice take-off and landings in remote locations, including some airstrips in the southern Indian Ocean.

Investigators have now managed to obtain the files - which had been deleted before they swept the machine.


Offline alicewonders

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #890 on: June 22, 2014, 03:33:03 pm »
Revealed: Captain Zaharie Shah is the 'chief suspect' in official MH370 investigation

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2664882/Captain-missing-MH370-flight-revealed-chief-suspect-Malaysias-official-police-investigation.html

Am I the only "kook" here that thinks there's a decent chance this plane never crashed?

 :shrug:
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Offline flowers

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #891 on: June 22, 2014, 04:13:35 pm »
Am I the only "kook" here that thinks there's a decent chance this plane never crashed?

 :shrug:
I wonder that as well some days.


Offline evadR

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #892 on: June 22, 2014, 04:27:43 pm »
I think the muzzies pulled off a good one this time.
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Offline olde north church

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #893 on: June 22, 2014, 04:41:16 pm »
Am I the only "kook" here that thinks there's a decent chance this plane never crashed?

 :shrug:

You're not.  I would place a bet on west of Iran, south of Turkey, east of Syria and Jordan ... well you get the picture.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 04:41:37 pm by olde north church »
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #894 on: June 22, 2014, 04:44:27 pm »
Am I the only "kook" here that thinks there's a decent chance this plane never crashed?

 :shrug:

Maybe you're not the only one, but this is kookiness.

Ever heard of "the secret too big to keep?" 

This plane is at the bottom of the ocean and will never be found.
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Oceander

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #895 on: June 22, 2014, 04:55:05 pm »
Am I the only "kook" here that thinks there's a decent chance this plane never crashed?

 :shrug:

I doubt you're a kook, but I definitely think you're wrong about the plane.  It's been 3 months now and there hasn't been hide nor hair of the plane, the passengers/crew, or even any claims of responsibility.  What on Earth would be the point of going through the entire rigmarole just to make it look like the plane actually crashed and sank with all hands lost?  Whatever the pilot may have originally intended to do, the conclusion is inescapable by now that it crashed into the ocean.

Offline alicewonders

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #896 on: June 22, 2014, 05:38:58 pm »
I doubt you're a kook, but I definitely think you're wrong about the plane.  It's been 3 months now and there hasn't been hide nor hair of the plane, the passengers/crew, or even any claims of responsibility.  What on Earth would be the point of going through the entire rigmarole just to make it look like the plane actually crashed and sank with all hands lost?  Whatever the pilot may have originally intended to do, the conclusion is inescapable by now that it crashed into the ocean.

You could draw a good conclusion that the plan went awry and the plane crashed deep in the sea, but I don't think that conclusion is inescapable.  I think these terrorists have shown that they have incredible patience, organization, resources and no lack of boots on the ground to pull off scenarios that we can only imagine.  I think we underestimate them at our own risk and I have no doubt that if they had the gonads to try to pull off such a thing that it is possible they could succeed.

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Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #897 on: June 22, 2014, 08:22:32 pm »
Truly, there is just no way to say for certain what happened.

It might have crashed at sea on purpose.

It might have crashed at sea because it ran out of fuel before reaching whatever place the person at the controls was trying to go.

It landed somewhere, was refueled, and quickly departed without passengers and maybe the cargo as well.  This would greatly increase the range due to the reduced weight.
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

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Oceander

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #898 on: June 22, 2014, 09:08:03 pm »
You could draw a good conclusion that the plan went awry and the plane crashed deep in the sea, but I don't think that conclusion is inescapable.  I think these terrorists have shown that they have incredible patience, organization, resources and no lack of boots on the ground to pull off scenarios that we can only imagine.  I think we underestimate them at our own risk and I have no doubt that if they had the gonads to try to pull off such a thing that it is possible they could succeed.



Truly, there is just no way to say for certain what happened.

It might have crashed at sea on purpose.

It might have crashed at sea because it ran out of fuel before reaching whatever place the person at the controls was trying to go.

It landed somewhere, was refueled, and quickly departed without passengers and maybe the cargo as well.  This would greatly increase the range due to the reduced weight.


And, according to quantum physics, it is theoretically possible that the entire thing suddenly appeared in orbit around Alpha Centauri.

The issue isn't theoretically possibility, but realistic probability, and on that score there is no plausible scenario in which "muzzie" (God how I hate that ugly term) terrorists seized the plane, flew it God knows where, safely landed it, disposed of the passengers without detection, and haven't said "boo" about it for three plus months.  There is no terror in a terrorist hijacking that is indistinguishable from a crash into the deep ocean.

The plane didn't land anywhere; it crashed into the southern Indian Ocean someplace and the wreckage - and whatever's left of the passengers' bodies - is now strewn across the bottom in places that are a mile deep in spots.

The belief that the plane was seized and "warehoused" for use later on is also improbable.  If terrorists were looking to acquire a fleet of planes with a long-term purpose - i.e., not for immediate use - then there are much easier ways to go about doing it.  For one thing, if one were going to start hijacking planes, one would start with hijacking cargo planes.  A lot more cargo planes disappear than do passenger planes and those that do get a lot less attention from searchers and the public when they go missing, as opposed to the massive public searches that go on for passenger planes.  For another, getting rid of unwanted cargo is a lot easier and a lot less messier than getting rid of unwanted passengers; in fact, depending on the cargo, the hijackers might even be able to turn a small profit selling it on the black market.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 09:14:22 pm by Oceander »

Offline flowers

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #899 on: June 30, 2014, 05:59:18 pm »
Was MH370's cockpit tampered with? Australian investigators discover evidence of mysterious power outage during early part of the flight

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2674694/Was-MH370s-cockpit-tampered-Australian-investigators-discover-evidence-mysterious-power-outage-early-flight.html

Quote
Missing plane's satellite data unit tried to log-on to a satellite, report reveals
Australian Transport Safety Bureau says this could be due to power outage
Log-on attempt occurred half an hour after plane left Kuala Lumpur
Expert suggests power interruption could have been caused by an attempt to switch off Boeing 777's communication systems to avoid radar detection