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Offline R4 TrumPence

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Paul blames Iraq crisis on Bush administration
« on: June 22, 2014, 12:21:20 PM »
Paul blames Iraq crisis on Bush administration

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/210177-paul-blames-iraq-crisis-on-bush-administration

Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) on Sunday said he blames the current crisis in Iraq on those who backed the 2003 U.S. invasion, not President Obama.

Paul was asked on NBC’s “Meet the Press” whether former Vice President Dick Cheney is a “credible critic” after he blasted Obama for his strategy for Iraq in an op-ed last week.

“I think the same questions could be asked of the same people who supported the Iraq war,” Paul said. “What’s going on now..I don’t blame President Obama. I blame the Iraq war and I blame the people who supported the Iraq war for emboldening Iran.”

The Bush administration didn’t understand and foresee that a civil war would break out, Paul said.
Unlike his Republican colleagues, Paul said he wanted the Iraq war to end. A number of GOP lawmakers have blamed the unraveling crisis in Iraq on Obama’s decision to pull all U.S. troops out in 2011.

Obama administration officials, however, have argued that it wasn’t that simple. The Iraqi government refused to sign a bilateral agreement that would allow a residual force to stay after 2011.

Cheney and his daughter, Liz, slammed Obama’s doctrine in an op-ed for The Wall Street Journal last week, which received a significant amount of blowback.

“Rarely has a U.S. president been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many,” they wrote.



Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/210177-paul-blames-iraq-crisis-on-bush-administration#ixzz35NyQebyV
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Paul blames Iraq crisis on Bush administration
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2014, 12:32:42 PM »
Well, adios Rand.  You're just like your dumb-ass daddy. 

We can't afford an isolationist in the White House, no matter his views on other issues.
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Offline Dexter

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Re: Paul blames Iraq crisis on Bush administration
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2014, 12:56:38 PM »

We can't afford an isolationist in the White House, no matter his views on other issues.

Why?
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Paul blames Iraq crisis on Bush administration
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2014, 01:03:50 PM »
Why?

He will get us all killed. 

You think this trash in Iraq is going to leave us alone?  You're very mistaken and misguided if you think that.

Rand Paul is a goofy libertarian at heart:  pull up the drawbridge and the bad guys will stay away; open borders; sex, drugs, and rock n' roll. 

I'm sorry I even considered him a viable presidential candidate.
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Offline Dexter

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Re: Paul blames Iraq crisis on Bush administration
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2014, 01:06:12 PM »
He will get us all killed. 

You think this trash in Iraq is going to leave us alone?  You're very mistaken and misguided if you think that.

Rand Paul is a goofy libertarian at heart:  pull up the drawbridge and the bad guys will stay away; open borders; sex, drugs, and rock n' roll. 

I'm sorry I even considered him a viable presidential candidate.

People the world over hate the United States for a plethora of different reasons. We'll be no more vulnerable to terrorist attacks if we take an isolationist approach, and I'd even be willing to wager we'd probably be LESS vulnerable, because the world seeing us minding our own business will probably be good for our image. Nobody on Earth has what it takes to be a threat to us out in the open. All they can do is try to sneak attack us.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Paul blames Iraq crisis on Bush administration
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2014, 01:16:33 PM »
People the world over hate the United States for a plethora of different reasons. We'll be no more vulnerable to terrorist attacks if we take an isolationist approach, and I'd even be willing to wager we'd probably be LESS vulnerable, because the world seeing us minding our own business will probably be good for our image. Nobody on Earth has what it takes to be a threat to us out in the open. All they can do is try to sneak attack us.

We were minding our own business when guys with boxcutters killed 3000 Americans.   

A couple of A-10s could have strafed that column of ISIS trucks traveling toward Baghdad a few days ago and sent a powerful message.

America as strong and powerful is the only image that serves our country's interests.  We are now perceived as weak, aimless, and scared, which is why the aggressive are taking advantage of the bystanders.
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Offline Dexter

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Re: Paul blames Iraq crisis on Bush administration
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2014, 01:21:16 PM »
We were minding our own business when guys with boxcutters killed 3000 Americans.   
I would not go so far as to say we were minding our own business.


America as strong and powerful is the only image that serves our country's interests.  We are now perceived as weak, aimless, and scared, which is why the aggressive are taking advantage of the bystanders.
The "Big and strong do whatever the bleep we want" image is exactly why a lot of terrorists hate us. Why are peaceful and non-aggressive countries not top priority targets for terrorism if they are just looking to feed on weakness? I disagree, and believe that there would be less hate for the U.S if we became more isolationist.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 01:22:04 PM by Dex4974 »
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Offline xfreeper

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Re: Paul blames Iraq crisis on Bush administration
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2014, 01:23:37 PM »
Why?

Because when you abdicate your position of world super power someone else will fill the vacuum. Essentially we have done that and russia and china are responding as predicted. Secondly, we also lose the ability to influence events that will affect us as is happening in the middle east.

Offline Dexter

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Re: Paul blames Iraq crisis on Bush administration
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2014, 01:26:05 PM »
Because when you abdicate your position of world super power someone else will fill the vacuum. Essentially we have done that and russia and china are responding as predicted. Secondly, we also lose the ability to influence events that will affect us as is happening in the middle east.

Becoming isolationist and focusing on strengthening the U.S from the inside will do a lot to help us retain our status as the world superpower, not that such an image actually matters.
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Re: Paul blames Iraq crisis on Bush administration
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2014, 01:27:23 PM »
Quite justifiably the US's citizens will increasingly be against further meddling among people that have battled each other for over 1200 years.

Americans didn't want to be involved in Europe in the late 1930s, after so recently shedding blood over there. They looked at history, of nearly perpetual wars in Europe.

We should have a lot of powder, keep it dry, but let the primitives kill each other off. It is about time for those who import oil, to pay the price with the lives of their young people-China, Japan, India, Korea, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_imports

 

Offline xfreeper

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Re: Paul blames Iraq crisis on Bush administration
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2014, 01:28:02 PM »
I would not go so far as to say we were minding our own business.

The "Big and strong do whatever the bleep we want" image is exactly why a lot of terrorists hate us. Why are peaceful and non-aggressive countries not top priority targets for terrorism if they are just looking to feed on weakness? I disagree, and believe that there would be less hate for the U.S if we became more isolationist.

It doesn't matter if they hate us. It's more important they fear and respect us. The islamic goal to reform the world, by violent means if necessary, has nothing to do with their hate for us. Or more correctly, their hate for us has nothing to do with whether or not we are isolationists. Such naive thinking resembling that of the bozoo in the WH is what has created a mess.

Offline Dexter

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Re: Paul blames Iraq crisis on Bush administration
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2014, 01:29:25 PM »


We should have a lot of powder, keep it dry, but let the primitives kill each other off.

Exactly. If these people cannot be convinced to not destroy each other why is it our responsibility to try to stop them? It wastes our resources and makes certain groups of people hate us.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Paul blames Iraq crisis on Bush administration
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2014, 01:29:37 PM »


The "Big and strong do whatever the bleep we want" image is exactly why a lot of terrorists hate us. Why are peaceful and non-aggressive countries not top priority targets for terrorism if they are just looking to feed on weakness? I disagree, and believe that there would be less hate for the U.S if we became more isolationist.

Nah.  Terrorists hate us because we're the big dogs on the block and will not ALLOW them to have the run of the rest of the world.  Nobody gives a damn about Denmark because Denmark is a pipsqueak of a country.

We are weak and scared right now, due to the occupant of the Oval Office, but ISIS and all the rest of that rabble knows that, with a strong leader, they'd be crushed.

Our friends loved and respected us under GW Bush because they knew they could count on us, and our enemies feared us because they never knew when they'd be next.  THAT is the proper role for the US in the world.  Had we left a residual force of 10,000 soldiers in Iraq, none of this would be happening now.
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Offline Dexter

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Re: Paul blames Iraq crisis on Bush administration
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2014, 01:31:31 PM »
It doesn't matter if they hate us. It's more important they fear and respect us. The islamic goal to reform the world, by violent means if necessary, has nothing to do with their hate for us. Or more correctly, their hate for us has nothing to do with whether or not we are isolationists. Such naive thinking resembling that of the bozoo in the WH is what has created a mess.

Further military action in the ME will not make people respect the strength of the U.S anymore than they already do. The entire world knows that we have the biggest baddest military and that nobody can touch us. The only attacks against us will be sneak attacks, and our military presence around the world only serves to increase the risk of such an attack.
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Offline xfreeper

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Re: Paul blames Iraq crisis on Bush administration
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2014, 01:48:05 PM »
Further military action in the ME will not make people respect the strength of the U.S anymore than they already do. The entire world knows that we have the biggest baddest military and that nobody can touch us. The only attacks against us will be sneak attacks, and our military presence around the world only serves to increase the risk of such an attack.

We could cease any and all involvement around the world and the attacks would continue until the US accepts Sharia law for all it's citizens

Offline kevindavis

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Re: Paul blames Iraq crisis on Bush administration
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2014, 02:41:11 PM »
We were minding our own business when guys with boxcutters killed 3000 Americans.   

A couple of A-10s could have strafed that column of ISIS trucks traveling toward Baghdad a few days ago and sent a powerful message.

America as strong and powerful is the only image that serves our country's interests.  We are now perceived as weak, aimless, and scared, which is why the aggressive are taking advantage of the bystanders.


Also we tried isolationism in the 1930's and it failed big time..
GOP House members came to Paul Ryan to be Speaker. He didn't come to them. And he was everybody's conservative darling back in 2012. So unless 1 of the remaining 240 wants to step up & do a better job in budgeting & negotiations & herding the party cats, then everybody please STFU. You go to battle with the army you have, not the one you want but don't have.

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Re: Paul blames Iraq crisis on Bush administration
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2014, 02:59:20 PM »

Also we tried isolationism in the 1930's and it failed big time..
I'm not convinced our late entry was a "failure" if measured by loss of Americans lives and influence.

I think it was a strategic and tactical success.

I'm hearing Cheney, arguing for more training of the Iraqis, as if 11 years of training could prevent them from throwing down their arms, and running away from the battle.

Looking back, going to Iraq was a mistake. If we found the WMD, why didn't Bush and Cheney tell us--then or now?

« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 03:10:36 PM by truth_seeker »

Offline R4 TrumPence

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Re: Paul blames Iraq crisis on Bush administration
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2014, 03:03:33 PM »

Also we tried isolationism in the 1930's and it failed big time..

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Offline NavyCanDo

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Re: Paul blames Iraq crisis on Bush administration
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2014, 03:19:05 PM »
The apple doesn't fall from the tree.   This isn't the first time Rand has spouted solid Libertarian viewpoints on American Isolationism and his objection to America's involvement in Iraq. But him blaming Bush for the firestorm in Iraq happening right now and giving Obama a pass, is way over the top.
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Re: Paul blames Iraq crisis on Bush administration
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2014, 03:34:36 PM »
The apple doesn't fall from the tree.   This isn't the first time Rand has spouted solid Libertarian viewpoints on American Isolationism and his objection to America's involvement in Iraq. But him blaming Bush for the firestorm in Iraq happening right now and giving Obama a pass, is way over the top.

The original premise for going there belonged and belongs to Bush and Cheney. If that premise was wrong, then they own it.

I very much dislike Obama, but he is holding true to his 2008 campaign stand, of getting out of Iraq.

Training the Iraqi military is a joke. They put down their guns and ran from the enemy, nearly 11 years after we first went there.

If 11 years of training is not enough, more won't be either; yet more training being the premise of Cheney now, today.

That seems a lot like liberal spenders and their failed plans, claiming more money will work, when the entire plan is a failure, including the basic premise.

Sunnis and Shiites have killed each other for 1,200 years, since long before the vital flow of oil to the world.

Let somebody else hand their sons and daughters over to America's brilliant military generals and admirals, to protect that oil. The US should spend national treasure to be self-sufficient, not letting our military dies and get mangled.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_imports


Offline 240B

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Re: Paul blames Iraq crisis on Bush administration
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2014, 04:09:48 PM »
Iran was a peaceful more or less secular State until Carter decided to 'fix' it by inviting in the 'nice old religious guy' as Carter called the Ayatollah.
 
Afganistan has been a hellhole stone-age mess for 10,000 years. It was lunacy to think that America could bring them into the 20th century in one generation. They don't want it, and it will never happen. Maybe, in a hundred years or so.
 
Saddam was a brutal murderer and a ruthless dictator, but that is what it takes to control the barbarians. Again, it was lunacy to think we could modernize those animals.
 
Syria was stable until Obama decided to 'fix' it by arming the 'rebels', i.e., terrorist in an attempt to overthrow Assad and install his buddies in the MB.
 
Egypt was relatively calm and stable until Hussien decided to 'fix' it by overthrowing the government there and inviting in his buddies in the MB.
 
Libya was stable until Obama decided to 'fix' it and bring in his buddies in the MB, now it is terrorist ridden, chotic, lawless hellhole.
 
The point is that everytime America attempts to fix the M.E., things always get worse not better. I am not isolationist but rather simply practical. Based on our track record, it would likely be better for everyone if we just let them do what they do and have always done. We need to stop trying to save the M.E. from itself.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 04:13:24 PM by 240B »
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Re: Paul blames Iraq crisis on Bush administration
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2014, 04:14:59 PM »
:thumbsup: to Kevin and Sink!

Dittos, here!   :beer:
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Offline musiclady

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Re: Paul blames Iraq crisis on Bush administration
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2014, 04:23:13 PM »
Well, adios Rand.  You're just like your dumb-ass daddy. 

We can't afford an isolationist in the White House, no matter his views on other issues.

Yep.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

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Offline musiclady

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Re: Paul blames Iraq crisis on Bush administration
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2014, 04:27:37 PM »
It doesn't matter if they hate us. It's more important they fear and respect us. The islamic goal to reform the world, by violent means if necessary, has nothing to do with their hate for us. Or more correctly, their hate for us has nothing to do with whether or not we are isolationists. Such naive thinking resembling that of the bozoo in the WH is what has created a mess.

Oderint, dum metuant. - Caligula

The motto of my son's unit during his second deployment to Iraq.

They don't fear or respect us now.

They're laughing at us.

Thanks, Obama.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

May 3, 2016 - the day the Republican party left ME.  I am now without a Party, and quite possibly without a country.  May God have mercy!

Offline musiclady

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Re: Paul blames Iraq crisis on Bush administration
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2014, 04:29:14 PM »
I'm not convinced our late entry was a "failure" if measured by loss of Americans lives and influence.

I think it was a strategic and tactical success.

I'm hearing Cheney, arguing for more training of the Iraqis, as if 11 years of training could prevent them from throwing down their arms, and running away from the battle.

Looking back, going to Iraq was a mistake. If we found the WMD, why didn't Bush and Cheney tell us--then or now?

National security.  As long as we had a military presence in Iraq, no one needed to know where the WMD were.

Now they're in the hands of militant crazies.

Thanks, Obama.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

May 3, 2016 - the day the Republican party left ME.  I am now without a Party, and quite possibly without a country.  May God have mercy!


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