Author Topic: How Obama is keeping a Benghazi suspect from hearing his Miranda rights  (Read 952 times)

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Online rangerrebew

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How Obama is keeping a Benghazi suspect from hearing his Miranda rights

 By Susan Crabtree  | June 20, 2014 | 7:30 am



When it comes to Ahmed Abu Khattala, the Obama administration is literally and figuratively at sea.

After capturing the alleged mastermind behind the 2012 attack on a U.S. diplomatic post in Benghazi, U.S. authorities are treating him as an enemy combatant who should be interrogated to prevent another attack.

At the same time, Attorney General Eric Holder plans to press charges against the militia leader in a U.S. court, which would require treating him more like a criminal defendant.

The solution? Investigators put Khattala on a slow boat to the United States.

The Obama administration is using the USS New York as a floating interrogation cell, an area of legal limbo where Khattala is not under either U.S. criminal law or the international law of war for days, possibly weeks.
   

 
U.S. authorities could easily have him transported to the states by plane, but because they plan to try him in a civilian court, U.S. law would require they read him his Miranda rights once he arrives, rendering any subsequent interrogations useless.

The decision to keep him in international waters shows just how tricky U.S. criminal law and the law of war have become post-9/11.

A constitutional scholar, President Obama vowed to clean up America's act after his predecessor, President George W. Bush, kept detainees in secret CIA prisons known as “black sites” in countries such as Romania for years without access to courts or lawyers and sent detainees to the Guantanamo Bay prison.

But the president, who famously vowed to close Gitmo, has found that easier to say than to do. Every time Obama decides to interrogate a prisoner at sea, he gets tangled up in legal lanyards.

Over the past few years, U.S. authorities have kept other captured terrorism suspects, such as al-Shabaab operative Ahmed Abdukadir Warsame, a reported 90 days in 2011 before even announcing his detention.

Last year, a suspected al Qaeda operative, Abu Anas al Libi, was interrogated for a week aboard a U.S. warship before being brought to New York for trial. Al Libi is accused of helping plot the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya. Intelligence operatives had planned to question him for weeks aboard the Navy ship but health concerns and his refusal of food and water cut it short.

In addressing plans for Khattala, a White House spokeswoman took pride in the fact that the Obama administration has yet to add a detainee to Guantanamo.

“The administration's policy is clear on this issue: we have not added a single person to the GTMO population since President Obama took office, and we have had substantial success delivering swift justice to terrorists through our federal court system,” National Security Council spokeswoman Caitlin Hayden said in a statement.

But for all the controversy surrounding Guantanamo Bay, the island facility is legal under the international law of war, unlike the Navy's floating interrogation facilities. The Geneva Conventions require prisoners of war to be held on land at a fixed address that outside monitors can locate and inspect. If a detainee were held on a ship or airplane heading full speed toward a destination on land, no one would object.

But a ship doesn't have to swiftly make a beeline for a port, leaving Khattala beyond the reach of the law for an unknown length of time.

Democrats have rushed to Obama's defense on his decision to try terrorism suspects in U.S. criminal courts, not military tribunals.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., who chairs the Senate Intelligence Committee and is a senior member of the Judiciary panel, said Tuesday that she fully supports the Obama administration's “efforts to prosecute [Khattala] in a federal court.”

“The U.S. criminal justice system has successfully convicted over 500 terrorists since 9/11, and I have full confidence in the ability of our federal courts,” she said.

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., told the Washington Examiner he hopes Khattala's not enduring some form of torture just because he's in a watery legal limbo.

"I think he can be kept and interrogated without being tortured for an extended period of time," McCain said, "but under the Geneva Conventions, he is not a criminal."

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., who wrote the law governing military tribunals for terrorism suspects after 9/11, has supported transferring terrorists from Guantanamo to a military prison inside the U.S.

Still, until Congress approves the creation of a new military prison facility within the U.S. for detainees, he says Khattala and others should be brought to Guantanamo.

“I don't want to hold him forever as an enemy combatant, I don't want to try him at Gitmo — but want I want is a process that allows us to gather intelligence in a more logical, military fashion,” he told the Washington Examiner.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/how-obama-is-keeping-a-benghazi-suspect-from-hearing-his-miranda-rights/article/2549958
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 10:54:39 AM by rangerrebew »
Abraham Lincoln:

There is no grievance that is a fit object of redress by mob law.
--January 27, 1838 Lyceum Address

Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties. And not to Democrats alone do I make this appeal, but to all who love these
great and true principles.
--August 27, 1856 Speech at Kalamazoo, Michigan

Let us then turn this government back into the channel in which the framers of the Constitution originally placed it.
--July 10, 1858 Speech at Chicago

Offline Chieftain

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So like the Hildebeest is telling us, we need to accept both ideas: Closing Guantanamo Bay and substituting the USS Guantanamo Bay New York.........

This used to be called "double-speak" but has now become an accepted Dhimmie discussion point.

 :smokin:
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 11:18:18 AM by Chieftain »

Offline Oceander

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whatever they get out of any interrogation cannot be used in court, and anything derived from what they get out of him will also be excluded as fruit of the poisonous tree.

Offline Ford289HiPo

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He's not a US citizen. He has no rights.
I wonder when the lies will stop and truth begin, even as grim as the truth may be. And then I remember that for 70 years, the reign of terror in Russia called itself "the people's government." We have so far to fall, yet we are falling fast and Hell yawns to receive us.

Offline evadR²

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"The Obama administration is using the USS New York as a floating interrogation cell"

Bull. They're not interrogating him, they're prepping him.
November 6, 2012, a day in infamy...the death of a republic as we know it.

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He's not a US citizen. He has no rights.

Really, Ford? Would that be a universal declaration, or only applicable to none US citizens?

If you got rights, he's got rights.
Anyone who tells you you can't buy happiness has never been in a book store or an animal shelter.

You are the result of 3 billion years of evolutionary success. Act like it.

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In October 2010, the FBI issued a guidance for how to apply this "public safety exemption" to terrorism suspects. The memo noted that "an arrest of an operational terrorist may warrant significantly more public safety interrogation" than ordinary criminal cases.

 http://www.businessinsider.com/why-didnt-boston-suspect-get-miranda-2013-4#ixzz35FwRGNmR
http://www.justice.gov/oip/docs/ag-memo-miranda-rights.pdf

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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"The Obama administration is using the USS New York as a floating interrogation cell"

Bull. They're not interrogating him, they're prepping him.

Absolutely!             :thumbsup:
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Online rangerrebew

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It was the Obama administration that got so uppity over troops not giving Jihadist's their Miranda Rights, they REQUIRED them to be given.  Now they are avoiding them?  I can't believe that of this administration. :3:
Abraham Lincoln:

There is no grievance that is a fit object of redress by mob law.
--January 27, 1838 Lyceum Address

Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties. And not to Democrats alone do I make this appeal, but to all who love these
great and true principles.
--August 27, 1856 Speech at Kalamazoo, Michigan

Let us then turn this government back into the channel in which the framers of the Constitution originally placed it.
--July 10, 1858 Speech at Chicago

Offline flowers

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"The Obama administration is using the USS New York as a floating interrogation cell"

Bull. They're not interrogating him, they're prepping him.
EXACTLY!!!!!!no way you could make me believe otherwise......ever.


Offline evadR²

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Here's how it goes.....
The participants:
Obama CIA Clone (HCIAC)
Terrorist (Achmed)
Barack Obama (Zero)

HCIAC: Look Achmed, I don't care that you did it. What we want to make sure is that when you testify you make DAMN sure that you say it was a video that inflamed you. Do you understand?
Achmed: WHAT video?
HCIAC: The anti muslum video. The one thast's going to get you out of this thing totally FREE.
Achmed:Oh, THAT video. Yes, I remember it well. Praise allah!

epilogue:
Zero: Is our boy properly prepped?
HCIAC: Yessiree chief. Just as you said.
Zero: Tell him his money is in a Swiss bank account. He can't access it until after he testifies.
November 6, 2012, a day in infamy...the death of a republic as we know it.

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The ‘Public Safety’ Exception


By Jacob Gershman

Republican South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham on Friday took to Twitter to urge the Obama administration to detain a suspected Boston Marathon bomber as an enemy combatant for intelligence gathering purposes if he is captured alive.

“The last thing we may want to do is read Boston suspect Miranda Rights telling him to ‘remain silent,’” said a post on Mr. Graham’s official Twitter account. Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, one of the two brothers identified by authorities on Friday as suspects in Monday’s Boston bombings, could be a “treasure trove of information” if he’s connected to overseas terror groups, another tweet said. A spokesman for Mr. Graham didn’t respond to a request for comment.

What does the law say about that? Could the Justice Department legally question and detain the suspect outside the criminal justice system?

The short answer is no, says Benjamin Wittes, a national security expert for the Brookings Institution and co-founder of Lawfare Blog, a national security blog.

Federal courts have said the president has the authority to detain persons “who were part of, or substantially supported, Taliban or al-Qaida forces or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States,” a power claimed by the Obama administration and codified by Congress.

So unless there’s evidence that Mr. Tsarnaev is linked to any terrorist group at war with America, “military detention is simply not lawfully available,” said Mr. Wittes. And there’s also the fact he’s a U.S. citizen pursued on American soil. That’s not necessarily a legal barrier, but a barrier under Obama administration policy, said Mr. Wittes.

But that doesn’t mean authorities would have to follow Miranda procedures right away. The law offers some flexibility, with what’s known as the “public safety” exception to the Miranda rule.

It stems from a 1984 U.S. Supreme Court case (New York v. Quarles) involving a Queens man charged with criminal gun possession. A witness told police the man raped her and had a gun. When they found him at an A&P supermarket, he had an empty shoulder holster. An officer, after handcuffing him, asked him where the gun was. The man gestured toward a stack of liquid-soap cartons, where police found a loaded revolver.

Lower courts tossed the evidence because the man was wasn’t read his rights before handcuffed and questioned. The Supreme Court disagreed, articulating a ‘public safety’ exception.

The FBI considers the exception to be a “powerful tool with a modern application for law enforcement,” wrote Carl Benoit, a legal instructor at the FBI Academy in a law enforcement bulletin. He wrote:


When police officers are confronted by a concern for public safety, Miranda warnings need not be provided prior to asking questions directed at neutralizing an imminent threat, and voluntary statements made in response to such narrowly tailored questions can be admitted at trial.

The circumstances with Mr. Tsarnaev are obviously very different. But Mr. Wittes said the Quarles case offers some flexibility, particularly since the suspect could be carrying a bomb.

Says Mr. Wittes: “You do have under ‘Quarles’ some period of time at least to make sure there aren’t other accomplices running around, and to make sure that if there is a foreign connection, that this isn’t part of some unfolding plot of attacks.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2013/04/19/the-public-safety-exception/
http://www.oyez.org/cases/1980-1989/1983/1983_82_1213
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 11:26:51 PM by Trigger »

Offline Ford289HiPo

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Really, Ford? Would that be a universal declaration, or only applicable to none US citizens?

If you got rights, he's got rights.
US citizens have inherent rights rights under the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. If he is given the same rights as I, as a US citizen have, we might as well give him an obamaphone, and a set of spinners for his goatmobile.
At this point, he is nothing more than an enemy combatant.
Using the same thought process, we should give free healthcare, schooling, DL, SS, to illegal aliens also.

Oh....wait-a-minute............................... :whistle:
I wonder when the lies will stop and truth begin, even as grim as the truth may be. And then I remember that for 70 years, the reign of terror in Russia called itself "the people's government." We have so far to fall, yet we are falling fast and Hell yawns to receive us.

Offline Oceander

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Really, Ford? Would that be a universal declaration, or only applicable to none US citizens?

If you got rights, he's got rights.

Depends on what "rights" you're talking about; the word "rights" in the abstract is meaningless, it signifies nothing.

Online EC

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If he is given the same rights as I, as a US citizen have, we might as well give him an obamaphone, and a set of spinners for his goatmobile.
At this point, he is nothing more than an enemy combatant.
Using the same thought process, we should give free healthcare, schooling, DL, SS, to illegal aliens also.

Oh....wait-a-minute............................... :whistle:

He was given the same rights as you. He was born. Rights do not come from the government, they are inherent and inalienable in every single person, thanks to the Creator. You know that - you spent long enough fighting for the idea and ideal. 

Quote
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

No geographical limit placed on that. :tongue2:

One of the most moving documents is the original version on the UN's universal declaration of human rights. It's basically the codification from the Constitution, the Bill of Rights (and seemingly a bit of Freemasonry that got tucked in when someone got tired).

If Abu al-Dickhead is being tried under US law, he gets the same protections as anyone else. If he is tried under international law, he's going to get pretty much the same protections, without the self incrimination clause. If he's tried under Libyan law, he gets a bullet to the head and a chain around his waist about mid Atlantic.

Anyone who tells you you can't buy happiness has never been in a book store or an animal shelter.

You are the result of 3 billion years of evolutionary success. Act like it.

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Offline Ford289HiPo

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EC, we can agree to disagree. I've been involved overseas long enough to realize that those who would demand our inherent rights are the same ones who wouldn't hesitate to execute our families. Heck, it happens in this very country under our own government.


Quote
Rights do not come from the government, they are inherent and inalienable in every single person, thanks to the Creator.
His creator or my creator? There seems to be a difference.


I wonder when the lies will stop and truth begin, even as grim as the truth may be. And then I remember that for 70 years, the reign of terror in Russia called itself "the people's government." We have so far to fall, yet we are falling fast and Hell yawns to receive us.

Online EC

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EC, we can agree to disagree. I've been involved overseas long enough to realize that those who would demand our inherent rights are the same ones who wouldn't hesitate to execute our families. Heck, it happens in this very country under our own government.

His creator or my creator? There seems to be a difference.

 :beer: Of course we can! One of the nicer things here - good people, fascinating convos and no one gets really bent out shape by a disagreement. We're all adults and act that way! Well, unless we get silly and start posting pictures of redheads.  :laugh:

Anyone who tells you you can't buy happiness has never been in a book store or an animal shelter.

You are the result of 3 billion years of evolutionary success. Act like it.

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Offline Ford289HiPo

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:beer: Well, unless we get silly and start posting pictures of redheads.  :laugh:




You had to go there, didn't you!



Of course, we should start a new thread now
I wonder when the lies will stop and truth begin, even as grim as the truth may be. And then I remember that for 70 years, the reign of terror in Russia called itself "the people's government." We have so far to fall, yet we are falling fast and Hell yawns to receive us.

Offline Oceander

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The US Constitution does not grant non-resident aliens (i.e., foreigners in foreign lands) the same rights nor degrees of protection, that it affords US citizens (at home and abroad) or resident aliens.

That is a simple fact of the matter, regardless of what anyone might wish.


With respect to the source of an individual's rights:  as a general proposition they may very well be endowed by the Creator; nonetheless, the Creator has left it to Caesar to and the various human governments to sketch out the precise details of those rights and how they'll be enforced.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 08:45:48 AM by Oceander »


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