Author Topic: Of True Scotsmen and Real Conservatives  (Read 1731 times)

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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Of True Scotsmen and Real Conservatives
« on: June 10, 2014, 12:02:28 AM »
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 12:04:31 AM by Luis Gonzalez »

Offline Machiavelli

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Re: Of True Scotsmen and Real Conservatives
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2014, 01:31:34 PM »
Good stuff, Luis.  goopo

Online truth_seeker

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Re: Of True Scotsmen and Real Conservatives
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2014, 02:13:15 PM »
If one cites Reagan's 11th Commandment these days, some "true conservative" will swat you down, claiming the commandment did not apply to these circumstances, etc.

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Of True Scotsmen and Real Conservatives
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2014, 06:30:54 PM »
If one cites Reagan's 11th Commandment these days, some "true conservative" will swat you down, claiming the commandment did not apply to these circumstances, etc.

A friend of mine from my old FR says read this article and commented on the core issue of it which is inclusion vs exclusion as a political tool.

It's evident that the right has an exclusionary approach to Party politics; a disagreement on one or two issues immediately kicks the exclusionary, political shunning process into high gear for the candidate (or person) with whom you disagree with.

The left uses an inclusionary approach, which is albeit nearly as incomprehensible as the right's... if you agree on just one or two issues, you're in! That's how two seemingly incompatible voting blocks with wildly opposite agendas (trade unions and immigrants) end up in the left's big tent.

If you want to win elections, you cannot be exclusionary.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 06:31:36 PM by Luis Gonzalez »

Offline speekinout

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Re: Of True Scotsmen and Real Conservatives
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2014, 07:10:06 PM »
f you want to win elections, you cannot be exclusionary.

On the other hand, if you want to accomplish anything, you do have to exclude those who would fight you on everything. The trick here is to figure out which people to include and which to exclude. It's a fine line, and to know how to walk it, you have to be very certain of that which you must do, and that which is merely desirable.
Setting priorities is a skill that many people have not learned.

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Re: Of True Scotsmen and Real Conservatives
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2014, 07:27:29 PM »
The 1970s were the timeframe running up to Reagan's wins. I was in college and grad school in the early-mid 70s, studying things like management. Management by Objectives were one set of buzz words. Zero based budgeting were another.

We were advised to start by determining the organization's main, broad objectives. Top down, bottom up, by open communication. It was an iterative process. Once the objectives were agreed, the shorter term goals were established, and plans for necessary resources were written down.

Always interative in nature, and up-down, down-up. Something along these lines should be taking place in the GOP House and |Senate memberships.

If it is happening, we don't see it. 

 
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Of True Scotsmen and Real Conservatives
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2014, 08:22:17 PM »
On the other hand, if you want to accomplish anything, you do have to exclude those who would fight you on everything. The trick here is to figure out which people to include and which to exclude. It's a fine line, and to know how to walk it, you have to be very certain of that which you must do, and that which is merely desirable.
Setting priorities is a skill that many people have not learned.

Two things...

In government there will always be someone fighting you on everything, unless the government itself is an autocracy. Our system of government is designed to always field an opposition. When that fails to manifest itself, we get things like Obamacare.

If you DON'T win elections, you get far less done than if you win elections, so if the boatman's due is to let everyone in your inclusive coalition have small victories in order to win elections and get ANYTHING done, either pay the fee, or get out of politics.


Offline speekinout

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Re: Of True Scotsmen and Real Conservatives
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2014, 08:30:50 PM »
If you DON'T win elections, you get far less done than if you win elections, so if the boatman's due is to let everyone in your inclusive coalition have small victories in order to win elections and get ANYTHING done, either pay the fee, or get out of politics.

 :amen:

Online Oceander

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Re: Of True Scotsmen and Real Conservatives
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2014, 10:34:37 AM »
If one cites Reagan's 11th Commandment these days, some "true conservative" will swat you down, claiming the commandment did not apply to these circumstances, etc.




I do believe, however, that Reagan wasn't fully faithful to the 11th Commandment in the 1980 campaign.


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