Author Topic: Iran Can Now Detect U.S. Stealth Jets at Long Range  (Read 304 times)

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Iran Can Now Detect U.S. Stealth Jets at Long Range
« on: June 07, 2014, 05:45:17 AM »

Jassem Al Salami on Jun 4

On June 2, an Iranian military Mi-17 helicopter flew over the desert east of Tehran toward one of the most secretive facilities belonging to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps. The helicopter landed in a remote area near two buildings surrounded by huge wire nets. Guests disembarked.

Brig. Gen. Farzad Ismaeli, commander of Iran’s air-defense force, and several masked IRGC personnel, waited to introduce a new radar system—one that could be able to detect American stealth warplanes at long range.

Ismaeli described the complex of wire nets and buildings as the Ghadir radar, Iran’s first operational over-the-horizon sensor. OTH radars can detect stealthy and small targets at very long ranges, regardless of the target’s altitude.

It’s a capability that promises to dramatically improve Iran’s ability to detect and defend against an aerial attack, potentially altering the military balance of power in the Persian Gulf.

For years, OTH radars have formed the back bone of territorial defense for the world’s superpowers. The United States currently operates an OTH radar network that can spot target as far as 3,000 kilometers from U.S. shores.

Australia, a potential target of Chinese strategic bombers, has the new Jindalee OTH sensor, with a similar range.

To achieve such incredible performance, OTH radars take advantage of a unique natural phenomenon. Instead of emitting radio waves directly into the target space, OTH radars blast very long wave pulses into the ionosphere.

Waves of certain frequencies bounce back down to the target area, enabling the radar to look at objects from above and identify them even behind ground terrain such as hills and mountains.

In addition to detecting stealth warplanes, OTH radars can also pick out ballistic missiles and even satellites in low orbit. Their long range makes them impervious to small-scale attacks by anti-radiation missiles and jammers.

On the down side, OTH radars are bulky, immobile and imprecise. The distance error in detecting a typical target can be as high as a kilometer. OTH radars also need enormous power sources.
Compared to other countries’ OTH radars, Ghadir seems to possess modest performance. Ismaeli claimed it has an 1,100-kilometer range and a maximum detection altitude of 300 kilometers.

Ghadir has four transmitters for 360-degree coverage, but given the huge amount of energy they require, it’s not clear that all four can broadcast at once. The phased-array layout closely resembles the Soviet Duga-3 radar near Chernobyl, perhaps indicating a fairly old-style design.

Ismaeli announced a plan to construct a more powerful OTH radar called Sepehr that could feature a 3,000-kilometer range.

Ghadir is unlikely to survive very long in an intensive war with the United States, but in the case of a limited engagement such as an American attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities, the OTH radar could help Iran organize its defenses.

The sensor would likely recognize an aerial strike package long before it reached Iranian borders, giving people enough time to evacuate essential facilities, alerting air-defense crews and prompting the air force to launch defensive fighters.

Ghadir should be able to cover all of Saudi Arabia. The more powerful Sepehr could also detect targets inside Israel. Both systems could prove a boon to Iran’s ally Syria.

The United States, Israel and Saudi Arabia have no way of countering the new radar short of a full-scale attack. America has poured much of its military research effort into stealth aircraft, but OTH radars by their nature negate the stealth advantage

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Re: Iran Can Now Detect U.S. Stealth Jets at Long Range
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2014, 05:54:11 AM »
You could probably detect the plane by its heat signature and even its nose cone heating.

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Re: Iran Can Now Detect U.S. Stealth Jets at Long Range
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2014, 05:55:59 AM »
You could probably detect the plane by its heat signature and even its nose cone heating.

The Serbs were able to down a F-117 in March of 1999
« Last Edit: June 07, 2014, 05:56:42 AM by Trigger »

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Re: Iran Can Now Detect U.S. Stealth Jets at Long Range
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2014, 06:02:46 AM »
Quote
The United States, Israel and Saudi Arabia have no way of countering the new radar short of a full-scale attack. America has poured much of its military research effort into stealth aircraft, but OTH radars by their nature negate the stealth advantage

Well, there is one universal way of evading any type of radar unless you physically fly over the damned thing, though doing it at Mach 5 would be a complex and expensive form of suicide. Stay under 50 feet. Depending on the terrain, ground clutter stops at between 50 and 100 feet. It is barely doable if you stick to about 200 mph or below. I've seen jet jockeys running nape of the Earth at just under Mach 1 - but they are all insane anyways. Insane in a good way.
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Re: Iran Can Now Detect U.S. Stealth Jets at Long Range
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2014, 06:06:37 AM »
Well, there is one universal way of evading any type of radar unless you physically fly over the damned thing, though doing it at Mach 5 would be a complex and expensive form of suicide. Stay under 50 feet. Depending on the terrain, ground clutter stops at between 50 and 100 feet. It is barely doable if you stick to about 200 mph or below. I've seen jet jockeys running nape of the Earth at just under Mach 1 - but they are all insane anyways. Insane in a good way.

I agree but you can use a good person who can handle a MANPAD. But what knowledge that was gained by shooting down of Vega 31. Most of that technology ended up with the Chinese and the end result is their J-20 airplane.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2014, 06:07:36 AM by Trigger »

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Re: Iran Can Now Detect U.S. Stealth Jets at Long Range
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2014, 06:07:16 AM »
The Serbs were able to down a F-117 in March of 1999

Pretty sure that one wound up being judged a lucky shot in the end, using a very low capability missile. Not 100% sure, but that was the buzz at the time.
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Re: Iran Can Now Detect U.S. Stealth Jets at Long Range
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2014, 06:09:30 AM »
Pretty sure that one wound up being judged a lucky shot in the end, using a very low capability missile. Not 100% sure, but that was the buzz at the time.


I do not think it was a lucky shot because the Serb missile commander reported that he used 2 SA-3 missiles on the plane. SA-3 are radar guided missiles

http://formerspook.blogspot.com/2011/01/legacy-of-vega-31.html
« Last Edit: June 07, 2014, 06:09:58 AM by Trigger »

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Re: Iran Can Now Detect U.S. Stealth Jets at Long Range
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2014, 06:25:03 AM »
From the bits I remember (it was a few years ago, and I were in Aviano at the time, not Tuzla, my baby got down checked and were waiting for parts.) the pilot reported that they must have got a head on or tail on peek at his plane - enough to get a lock and let the missiles get close enough to lock on with the heat sensors. His report, and the tanker captain who witnessed it, reported several explosions not on the airframe, with significant shrapnel damage before ejection and the final hit. I don't know much about the SA-3 - they got multiple warheads? Or it could be some of the shrapnel took out one of the engines.

How the info got to China is a mild mystery - but I definitely agree it did. Apart from the newer modifications to the intakes and thrust nozzles to reduce signature even further (also as a result of the downing of Vega 31) the 117 and the J 20 could be twins.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2014, 06:25:57 AM by EC »
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Re: Iran Can Now Detect U.S. Stealth Jets at Long Range
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2014, 11:41:06 PM »
From the bits I remember (it was a few years ago, and I were in Aviano at the time, not Tuzla, my baby got down checked and were waiting for parts.) the pilot reported that they must have got a head on or tail on peek at his plane - enough to get a lock and let the missiles get close enough to lock on with the heat sensors. His report, and the tanker captain who witnessed it, reported several explosions not on the airframe, with significant shrapnel damage before ejection and the final hit. I don't know much about the SA-3 - they got multiple warheads? Or it could be some of the shrapnel took out one of the engines.

How the info got to China is a mild mystery - but I definitely agree it did. Apart from the newer modifications to the intakes and thrust nozzles to reduce signature even further (also as a result of the downing of Vega 31) the 117 and the J 20 could be twins.

There is a significant Chinese population who lives in Serbia.There was a rumor that Milosevic imported over 50,000 Chinese people and gave them Yugoslav passports so that they could vote for him in elections. I do agree that F-117 and the J-20 can be twins since they are using the same basic technology
« Last Edit: June 07, 2014, 11:47:05 PM by Trigger »


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