Author Topic: House Democrats unveil new gun bill focused on mental health  (Read 500 times)

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Offline mystery-ak

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http://thehill.com/homenews/house/207760-house-democrats-unveil-new-gun-bill-focused-on-mental-health

 By Mike Lillis - 05/30/14 01:59 PM EDT

House Democrats introduced legislation Friday designed to keep firearms from the hands of the severely mentally ill.

Sponsored by Reps. Mike Thompson (D-Calif.) and Ed Perlmutter (D-Colo.), the measure would expand the list of people prohibited from buying or possessing guns to include a broader swath of mental health patients and convicted criminals.

Supporters of the proposal say it's a common-sense way to keep guns away from potentially dangerous people without encroaching on Second Amendment rights.

"While no one law or set of laws can end gun violence, by taking these steps — and requiring background checks on all commercial gun sales — we can make our communities safer and prevent more shootings while respecting the rights of law-abiding gun owners," Thompson said.

The legislation arrives one week after a shooting and stabbing spree in Santa Barbara, Calif., left seven people dead, including the gunman. Police say Elliot Rodger, a 22-year-old former Santa Barbara City College student, fatally stabbed three men in his apartment, then shot and killed three others before taking his own life with a handgun.

Rodger had a history of mental illness, and his family had alerted police about suspicious behavior in the month before the violence occurred.

The authorities visited Rodger at home, but determined "he did not meet the criteria for an involuntary hold,” according to Santa Barbara County Sheriff Bill Brown.

The House on Thursday passed bipartisan legislation increasing funding for an FBI database designed to block gun sales to certain criminals and the severely mentally ill. The Thompson-Perlmutter bill, supporters say, would complement that effort.

"This young man's family reached out for support and did not find the support there," Rep. Elizabeth Esty (D-Conn.), said of Rodger. "It is our duty, as members of Congress, to ensure that families, law enforcement [and] mental health professionals have the support they need to keep us safe."

The Democrats' bill would expand the federal prohibition on gun sales to include those convicted of misdemeanor stalking, as well as those receiving involuntary mental health services on an outpatient basis, if a court deems them dangerous. The current ban applies largely to those committed on an inpatient basis.

The proposal would also provide states grant money to help local authorities bolster gun-violence prevention programs. One such effort, the Democrats suggest, would be to empower police to seek warrants to seize firearms from those they believe might use them to harm themselves or others.

The bill has little chance of moving through the Republican-led House, where GOP leaders have refused all calls to consider tougher gun laws in recent years. Still, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) on Thursday urged Congress to pass the measure "without delay."

"As more details emerge about the Santa Barbara shooter, it's clear that we must keep guns away from those at risk of hurting themselves or hurting others," she said.

It's unclear if the bill’s measures could have prevented the recent Santa Barbara shooting — something even the Democrats acknowledge.

But that, Thompson said Friday, "is no excuse not to try to do what we can do."

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Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: House Democrats unveil new gun bill focused on mental health
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2014, 08:08:40 PM »
And they'll simply get doctors to declare everyone but the select few to be mentally ill, so guns can be confiscated outright, for the public safety of course.
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Offline mountaineer

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Re: House Democrats unveil new gun bill focused on mental health
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2014, 08:35:05 PM »
Quote
declare everyone but the select few to be mentally ill
Like all those whackadoodle Christians and constitutionalists.
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Offline Oceander

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Re: House Democrats unveil new gun bill focused on mental health
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2014, 11:30:45 PM »
If properly written, then it could be something constructive because the real problem is not a lack of gun control, but a lack of crazy control.

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Re: House Democrats unveil new gun bill focused on mental health
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2014, 01:03:05 AM »
If properly written, then it could be something constructive because the real problem is not a lack of gun control, but a lack of crazy control.

That, of course, is the sticking point.
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Re: House Democrats unveil new gun bill focused on mental health
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2014, 01:31:16 AM »
In California they have a law called a section 5150 law. This law Cal. Welf. & Inst. Code § 5325.1 was passed. In Florida, there is a law called the "Baker Law" that is similar.Its known as the The Florida Mental Health Act of 1971. This is not a new thing. Its been floating around from state to state where it should be. It should not be the federal government to decide these things.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 01:34:43 AM by Trigger »

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Re: House Democrats unveil new gun bill focused on mental health
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2014, 02:23:46 AM »


These are states with such laws. These are local and state issues not federal issues. I would expect that these types of laws to struck down in the court systems.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 02:42:00 AM by Trigger »

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Re: House Democrats unveil new gun bill focused on mental health
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2014, 03:41:58 AM »
My problem who determines if a person is crazy or not and should not have a firearm. In Santa Barbara, that man killed three of his roommates with a knife before he went on his spree. What is next knife control?
« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 04:02:32 AM by Trigger »

Offline mountaineer

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Re: House Democrats unveil new gun bill focused on mental health
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2014, 08:50:18 AM »
My problem who determines if a person is crazy or not and should not have a firearm. In Santa Barbara, that man killed three of his roommates with a knife before he went on his spree. What is next knife control?
I saw a headline yesterday to the effect that England wants to do just that - ban or control kitchen knives.
The skeptic is never for real. There he stands, cocktail in hand, left arm draped languorously on one end of the mantelpiece, telling you that he can't be sure of anything, not even of his own existence. I'll give you my secret method of demolishing universal skepticism in four words. Whisper to him: "Your fly is open." If he thinks knowledge is so all-fired impossible, why does he always look? — James Sire (from, The Universe Next Door)

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: House Democrats unveil new gun bill focused on mental health
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2014, 10:28:21 AM »
If properly written, then it could be something constructive because the real problem is not a lack of gun control, but a lack of crazy control.

Absolutely!  Those of us on the 2d Amendment side of this debate are frequently referring to the mental health issues.  What we don't want is to have our individual health records become part of a routine gun purchase background check.  Gotta be a compromise here.
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Re: House Democrats unveil new gun bill focused on mental health
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2014, 11:53:49 AM »
Absolutely!  Those of us on the 2d Amendment side of this debate are frequently referring to the mental health issues.  What we don't want is to have our individual health records become part of a routine gun purchase background check.  Gotta be a compromise here.

agreed

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Re: House Democrats unveil new gun bill focused on mental health
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2014, 06:14:52 PM »
I saw a headline yesterday to the effect that England wants to do just that - ban or control kitchen knives.


That is absolutely correct. Great Britain wants to ban kitchen knives.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm
« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 06:16:03 PM by Trigger »

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Re: House Democrats unveil new gun bill focused on mental health
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2014, 06:27:44 PM »
That is absolutely correct. Great Britain wants to ban kitchen knives.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm


No one under the age of 16 may buy them. Not in a cookware shop, not in a remainder shop, not even in a charity shop.
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Offline Chieftain

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Re: House Democrats unveil new gun bill focused on mental health
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2014, 07:07:04 PM »
If properly written, then it could be something constructive because the real problem is not a lack of gun control, but a lack of crazy control.

Sounds like a bill of attainder to me, and those are specifically banned under the Constitution.

Try again....


Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: House Democrats unveil new gun bill focused on mental health
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2014, 07:53:29 PM »
Sounds like a bill of attainder to me, and those are specifically banned under the Constitution.

Try again....

Help me out here.  Are you saying there's no constitutional way to keep an insane person from possessing a gun?
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Re: House Democrats unveil new gun bill focused on mental health
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2014, 11:21:36 PM »
Help me out here.  Are you saying there's no constitutional way to keep an insane person from possessing a gun?

This bill if taken to the courts could be struck down

Offline 240B

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Re: House Democrats unveil new gun bill focused on mental health
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2014, 11:32:01 PM »
The way to prevent muderous rampages like the movie theater Joker idiot, or the school shootings, or the workplace shootings, or the nutcase in California is with more guns, not less guns. If someone had just shot these obvious lunatics, very many lives would have been saved.
 
You know those Western movies where the bad guys ride into town and start shooting the place up? It never happened. Every citizen down to the clerks and bar girls had a gun and knew how to use it. That is what kept order.
 
An armed society is a polite society. I say more guns, not less. If I am ever in one of those shooter situations I may be killed, but I would hope that I would go down shooting back.
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Re: House Democrats unveil new gun bill focused on mental health
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2014, 11:33:06 PM »
Absolutely!  Those of us on the 2d Amendment side of this debate are frequently referring to the mental health issues.  What we don't want is to have our individual health records become part of a routine gun purchase background check.  Gotta be a compromise here.

Medical records are kept confidential under the HIPAA act. This proposition would conflict with the 2nd Amendment. Another reason that this would be a court battle.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 11:34:38 PM by Trigger »

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: House Democrats unveil new gun bill focused on mental health
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2014, 08:26:43 AM »
Medical records are kept confidential under the HIPAA act. This proposition would conflict with the 2nd Amendment. Another reason that this would be a court battle.

There's a bill just introduced by Democrats concerning this issue.  While anything Democrats put forward needs to be very carefully looked at, this one has potential for going after those who shouldn't have guns rather than the good guys.

"The bill would ban outpatients who have been involuntarily committed from purchasing firearms if a court has deemed them dangerous and improve the system used to report potentially dangerous individuals to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System. It also would stop those convicted of stalking or domestic abuse from buying guns."

We are always complaining that it's the bad guys and nutjobs who should be kept away from guns, not the rest of society.  I think there are already laws that cover some of what's in the proposal, but perhaps the Republicans should at least talk about it.

 
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Re: House Democrats unveil new gun bill focused on mental health
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2014, 06:34:00 PM »
There's a bill just introduced by Democrats concerning this issue.  While anything Democrats put forward needs to be very carefully looked at, this one has potential for going after those who shouldn't have guns rather than the good guys.

"The bill would ban outpatients who have been involuntarily committed from purchasing firearms if a court has deemed them dangerous and improve the system used to report potentially dangerous individuals to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System. It also would stop those convicted of stalking or domestic abuse from buying guns."

We are always complaining that it's the bad guys and nutjobs who should be kept away from guns, not the rest of society.  I think there are already laws that cover some of what's in the proposal, but perhaps the Republicans should at least talk about it.

This looks like that the courts will have to settle it out.


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