Author Topic: The Biggest Employers in America  (Read 900 times)

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Offline mystery-ak

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The Biggest Employers in America
« on: May 28, 2014, 01:18:54 PM »
http://bastiat.mises.org/2014/05/the-biggest-employers-in-america/

The Biggest Employers in America

By Jeff Deist
Tuesday, May 27th, 2014
Are Fedgov and state universities, according to Business Insider.  The private sector, not the state, is withering away


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Offline Bigun

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Re: The Biggest Employers in America
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2014, 01:21:33 PM »
Yep! The golden goose is on his death bed for sure!
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Offline LambChop

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Re: The Biggest Employers in America
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2014, 01:32:39 PM »
Very misleading.  *yawn*

Offline Bigun

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Re: The Biggest Employers in America
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2014, 01:40:57 PM »
Very misleading.  *yawn*








Is this clear enough for you?

« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 01:48:37 PM by Bigun »
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Offline LambChop

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Re: The Biggest Employers in America
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2014, 02:15:58 PM »

Is this clear enough for you?

I can use big bold letters too

Doesn't change a thing.  Still a yawn.  Break it down, it tells an entirely different story.

I.E.  State of North Carolina.  The largest employer is the State of North Carolina.  Yet it only employs just over 4% of the population.
Add to that Federal Government and a couple of school districts and you have 4 of the top ten employers in the state, yet they employ 6.57% of the population.

Now I'm sure if you start adding all the school districts in the state, all the police departments, fire departments, justice systems...... well you get the idea.

And as we've seen with our prison systems, privatization is not a good idea, and ultimately more costly.

Offline Bigun

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Re: The Biggest Employers in America
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2014, 02:18:56 PM »
I can use big bold letters too

Doesn't change a thing.  Still a yawn.  Break it down, it tells an entirely different story.

I.E.  State of North Carolina.  The largest employer is the State of North Carolina.  Yet it only employs just over 4% of the population.
Add to that Federal Government and a couple of school districts and you have 4 of the top ten employers in the state, yet they employ 6.57% of the population.

Now I'm sure if you start adding all the school districts in the state, all the police departments, fire departments, justice systems...... well you get the idea.

And as we've seen with our prison systems, privatization is not a good idea, and ultimately more costly.

Oh I get the idea! I get it QUITE well in fact and VEHEMENTLY disagree with your assertion that privatization is not a good idea!
“It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.” —Voltaire

Offline LambChop

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Re: The Biggest Employers in America
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2014, 02:32:44 PM »
Oh I get the idea! I get it QUITE well in fact and VEHEMENTLY disagree with your assertion that privatization is not a good idea!

You're taking one part of the statement, but OK if that's what you want to discuss.  Lets.

How can you justify privatization?  It's costlier to the tax payer and more corrupt.

Offline Bigun

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Re: The Biggest Employers in America
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2014, 02:39:49 PM »
You're taking one part of the statement, but OK if that's what you want to discuss.  Lets.

How can you justify privatization?  It's costlier to the tax payer and more corrupt.

So you say! I say we a re much better off with PRIVATE sector entities that have to run efficiently, while paying their taxes, and COMPETE for business to survive vs government run entities that do none of that!! 
“It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.” —Voltaire

Offline EC

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Re: The Biggest Employers in America
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2014, 02:50:14 PM »
So you say! I say we a re much better off with PRIVATE sector entities that have to run efficiently, while paying their taxes, and COMPETE for business to survive vs government run entities that do none of that!!

Yes and no, brother.

I am no fan of totally unrestrained capitalism, yet they do have the check and balance system of value to shareholders and the bottom line to think of. Government, on the other hand - your worth in management is your number of direct reports, so the bigger you grow your empire, the more powerful you are.

Both systems are flawed, simply because they are run by people, with all the greed, vanity and venality that entails.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: The Biggest Employers in America
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2014, 02:52:43 PM »
Yes and no, brother.

I am no fan of totally unrestrained capitalism, yet they do have the check and balance system of value to shareholders and the bottom line to think of. Government, on the other hand - your worth in management is your number of direct reports, so the bigger you grow your empire, the more powerful you are.

Both systems are flawed, simply because they are run by people, with all the greed, vanity and venality that entails.

Never-the-less I trust free market mechanisms to regulate things FAR more than any government regulation!
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: The Biggest Employers in America
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2014, 02:56:53 PM »
Oh I get the idea! I get it QUITE well in fact and VEHEMENTLY disagree with your assertion that privatization is not a good idea!

Privatization is almost always preferable to public employment.  The profit motive demands efficiency and effectiveness. Public service, which arguably is the better solution in some cases, does not depend efficiency or effectiveness.  They depend on political objectives.  And it is the goal of the public sector agency to grow, not with profits, but with political support and the award of tax dollars.  Efficiency thwarts that goal.
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Offline EC

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Re: The Biggest Employers in America
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2014, 03:00:07 PM »
Never-the-less I trust free market mechanisms to regulate things FAR more than any government regulation!

I trust accountability more than both, though the free market does have more accountability built in to it.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: The Biggest Employers in America
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2014, 03:01:08 PM »
Privatization is almost always preferable to public employment.  The profit motive demands efficiency and effectiveness. Public service, which arguably is the better solution in some cases, does not depend efficiency or effectiveness.  They depend on political objectives.  And it is the goal of the public sector agency to grow, not with profits, but with political support and the award of tax dollars.  Efficiency thwarts that goal.

Well said Mac! I couldn't agree more!  :beer:

And an even bigger problem is that EVERY government run entity out there is always seeking to enlarge their empire by taking over a yet another small piece of the private economy! That alone is what is driving the trend depicted by the graphics I posted above!

« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 03:03:27 PM by Bigun »
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: The Biggest Employers in America
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2014, 03:06:31 PM »
Well said Mac! I couldn't agree more!  :beer:

And an even bigger problem is that EVERY government run entity out there is always seeking to enlarge their empire by taking over a yet another small piece of the private economy! That alone is what is driving the trend depicted by the graphics I posted above!

Those charts you posted say more than a hundred paragraphs.   :beer:
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Offline LambChop

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Re: The Biggest Employers in America
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2014, 03:22:01 PM »
Privatization is almost always preferable to public employment.  The profit motive demands efficiency and effectiveness. Public service, which arguably is the better solution in some cases, does not depend efficiency or effectiveness.  They depend on political objectives.  And it is the goal of the public sector agency to grow, not with profits, but with political support and the award of tax dollars.  Efficiency thwarts that goal.

Wrong.  The profit motive demands profit.  period.  Doesn't matter if it's effective or efficient.  Take a look at our prison system these days.
You'd be surprised how many are privatized.  Would explain why we have more people imprisoned in this country than any other in the world.
More prisoners = more tax money

Take a look at the Catholic School system.  In the last 25 - 30 years they don't turn out children with any better education than a public school in a comparative area.  And they closed down a heck of a lot of schools.

And the only reason these "magnet" schools look better on paper is because they cook the books and expel "unwanted " children

Offline LambChop

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Re: The Biggest Employers in America
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2014, 03:23:06 PM »
Well said Mac! I couldn't agree more!  :beer:

And an even bigger problem is that EVERY government run entity out there is always seeking to enlarge their empire by taking over a yet another small piece of the private economy! That alone is what is driving the trend depicted by the graphics I posted above!

got back up on that? or is it more rhetoric?

Offline LambChop

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Re: The Biggest Employers in America
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2014, 03:25:04 PM »
I trust accountability more than both, though the free market does have more accountability built in to it.

accountability to what?  To bilk tax payers out of more money for the profit margins?  There are things that should not be for profit, if it is it gets adulterated quickly.

Offline Bigun

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Re: The Biggest Employers in America
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2014, 03:28:03 PM »
got back up on that? or is it more rhetoric?

More than  can possibly be posted here (I already posted three graphics that CLEARLY demonstrate the problem)  so YOU are going to have to do you own research or remain hopelessly deluded! I really don't care which!
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 03:30:40 PM by Bigun »
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Re: The Biggest Employers in America
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2014, 03:37:03 PM »
accountability to what?  To bilk tax payers out of more money for the profit margins?  There are things that should not be for profit, if it is it gets adulterated quickly.
Give a list of examples, whereby government does better at functions.

--Schools/educating people?
--Growing food?
--Extracting and generating energy?
--Fire fighting?
--Border patrol?
--Transportation?
--Inventing drugs?
--Inventing technology?
--Manufacturing?


Offline LambChop

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Re: The Biggest Employers in America
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2014, 03:57:47 PM »
Give a list of examples, whereby government does better at functions.

--Schools/educating people?  public education has produced some of the brightest minds in our country i.e. Steve Jobs
--Growing food?without government subsidy, agriculture would be much more expensive thus higher food prices
--Extracting and generating energy?
--Fire fighting?http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/tennessee-family-home-burns-while-firefighters-watch-191241763.html
--Border patrol?
--Transportation?examine the cost of travel by taxi vs public transportation, enough said
--Inventing drugs?
--Inventing technology?Got a couple words for you.  Microwaves, satellites, cell phones
--Manufacturing?


You do realize that most of that list is either made better because of or are better off by government?

Offline EC

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Re: The Biggest Employers in America
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2014, 04:05:03 PM »
accountability to what?  To bilk tax payers out of more money for the profit margins?  There are things that should not be for profit, if it is it gets adulterated quickly.

Define "for profit."

To take the VA scandal as an example - who profits? Do you deny that the doctors and nurses, therapists both physical and psychological deserve to be paid commensurate with their skills and experience?
Anyone who tells you you can't buy happiness has never been in a book store or an animal shelter.

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Re: The Biggest Employers in America
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2014, 04:14:38 PM »
You do realize that most of that list is either made better because of or are better off by government?
Care to explain the massive successes of the USSR, Cuba and North Korea?

Your examply of Steve Jobs, is for a guy that attended a private college.

Your example of food is ridiculous. Food prices have ben driven UP by looney policy of growing subsidized corn for fuel.

If you were capable of grasping the unsubsidized vs. subsidized ticket prices of public transportation, you'd learn a lot.


Offline LambChop

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Re: The Biggest Employers in America
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2014, 04:25:12 PM »
Care to explain the massive successes of the USSR, Cuba and North Korea?

Your examply of Steve Jobs, is for a guy that attended a private college.

Your example of food is ridiculous. Food prices have ben driven UP by looney policy of growing subsidized corn for fuel.

If you were capable of grasping the unsubsidized vs. subsidized ticket prices of public transportation, you'd learn a lot.

Just an FYI.  Being an insulting douchebag doesn't win an arguement.

And Steve Jobs went to public schools K-12.   He didn't get into a private college being an uneducated idiot.

Offline LambChop

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Re: The Biggest Employers in America
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2014, 04:31:12 PM »
Define "for profit."

To take the VA scandal as an example - who profits? Do you deny that the doctors and nurses, therapists both physical and psychological deserve to be paid commensurate with their skills and experience?

You know exactly what "for profit" is.  And if you want to look at the VA scandal that's fine.  Why were we cutting the VA budget when we were beginning 2 wars?  2 wars in which medical technology has advanced so far that many of the the returning wounded would have been dead on the battle field in former wars. 

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: The Biggest Employers in America
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2014, 04:34:03 PM »
Wrong.  The profit motive demands profit.  period.  Doesn't matter if it's effective or efficient.


You don't think that it takes efficiency and effectiveness to earn a profit???

Quote
Take a look at our prison system these days.
You'd be surprised how many are privatized.  Would explain why we have more people imprisoned in this country than any other in the world.
More prisoners = more tax money


What on earth do the companies running a prison have to do with a crime committed, an arrest, a trial, a jury judgment, and a sentence?  Or is it all a giant conspiracy started by the criminal?  And BTW, the prison system is still run by the government.

Quote
Take a look at the Catholic School system.  In the last 25 - 30 years they don't turn out children with any better education than a public school in a comparative area.  And they closed down a heck of a lot of schools.

And the only reason these "magnet" schools look better on paper is because they cook the books and expel "unwanted " children


Catholic schools release standardized test scores; results are better than state average

Catholic schools release standardized test scores; results are better than state average

Private schools top public in average ACT, SAT scores

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/local-education/private-schools-top-public-in-average-act-sat-scor/nTtCq/

Department of Education: Catholic Schools Beat Public Schools

http://cnsnews.com/blog/terence-p-jeffrey/department-education-catholic-schools-beat-public-schools

When the Chicago teachers went on strike, some of the more militant teachers talked with the press.  They could barely speak English themselves, never mind teaching the children.  Very few unions are worse than the teachers unions.  They don't want competition; they don't want tests; they don't want grades.  They do want more and more money to graduate more and more ignorant youth, who can themselves transfer to the public dole, since so many of them cannot read or write effectively.

Yes, private schools do not tolerate thugs or students who refuse to participate and learn.  And that's bad???
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