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Online mystery-ak

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« on: May 28, 2014, 11:35:26 AM »

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Offline Slide Rule

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« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2014, 03:17:06 PM »
Evidently West Point still trains moral leaders.

Good.  Very good indeed.

Al

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Offline Bigun

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« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2014, 03:19:39 PM »
Evidently West Point still trains moral leaders.

Good.  Very good indeed.

Al


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« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2014, 03:22:15 PM »
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« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2014, 03:24:10 PM »
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Offline EC

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« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2014, 03:28:07 PM »
Who can blame them for not standing?  :thud:

I do. You respect the position if you can not respect the person.

It's like respecting the flag. We co-based a lot, and we'd freeze, form up, and salute during the evening flag ceremony. Not our flag, not our tradition, but respect, you know? I mislike larval officers who do not show respect.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 03:53:29 PM by EC »
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Online mystery-ak

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« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2014, 04:42:20 PM »

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Offline Lando Lincoln

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« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2014, 04:44:59 PM »
I do. You respect the position if you can not respect the person.

It's like respecting the flag. We co-based a lot, and we'd freeze, form up, and salute during the evening flag ceremony. Not our flag, not our tradition, but respect, you know? I mislike larval officers who do not show respect.

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For the progressive, there is very little to love about the United States. Washington, Jefferson, Madison? A bunch of rotten slaveholders, hypocrites, and cowards even when their hearts were in the right places. The Declaration of Independence? A manifesto for the propertied classes. The Constitution? An artifact of sexism and white supremacy. The sacrifices in the great wars of the 20th century? Feeding the poor and the disenfranchised into the meat-grinder of imperialism. The gifts of Carnegie, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Morgan, Astor? Blood money from self-aggrandizing robber barons. Nat Rev

Offline musiclady

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« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2014, 06:01:57 PM »
Is it a requirement to stand, or just expected?

If there's an option, then I say, stay seated, even if you respect the office.

It makes a powerful statement that, IMO, needs to be made by our military.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

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Offline EC

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« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2014, 06:10:35 PM »
Is it a requirement to stand, or just expected?

If there's an option, then I say, stay seated, even if you respect the office.

It makes a powerful statement that, IMO, needs to be made by our military.

No, my friend.

These are - or will be at some stage - officers. Those who are responsible for discipline, respect and the traditions of the service. They do not get a pass on this.
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Offline Chieftain

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« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2014, 06:45:07 PM »
Understand that this was a Commencement address for the graduating class of cadets.  How would you feel if the President showed up to make a speech that is nothing more than attempting to answer his critics, not laying out some kind of clear, coherent foreign policy.  That does not exists.


Online mystery-ak

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« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2014, 06:54:20 PM »
WOW

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0C_FvDymfc" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0C_FvDymfc</a>

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Online mystery-ak

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« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2014, 07:09:04 PM »
compared to

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TgLYLuDjlY" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TgLYLuDjlY</a>

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Offline MACVSOG68

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« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2014, 07:18:47 PM »
I do. You respect the position if you can not respect the person.

It's like respecting the flag. We co-based a lot, and we'd freeze, form up, and salute during the evening flag ceremony. Not our flag, not our tradition, but respect, you know? I mislike larval officers who do not show respect.

Absolutely correct.  At a formal dinner or military ball, an officer will start the toasting by tapping the glass, rising, lifting his glass and saying:  "The President of the United States".  Then a dozen or so toasts would be offered depending on the outfit you were in.  At least it used to be that way.

I still think it's unfortunate the West Point graduating class couldn't have heard Admiral McRaven instead of this smug, miserable, ineffectual, sleazy, gutless, make-believe leader with his defensive, self-important speech.  I can say that because I'm a retired officer...
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Offline EC

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« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2014, 07:20:34 PM »
http://www.c-span.org/video/?41321-1/west-point-commencement-address

Made me laugh like hell in spots. Honest. humorous, and totally respectful of the cadets. The Worm is a foul person in comparison. Yet - he's still CinC.

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Online mystery-ak

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« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2014, 07:22:32 PM »
I thought the protocol was all military stood at attention when the Pres entered..maybe it is different at commencement ceremonies.... :shrug:......of course you can't make civilians do that....

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« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2014, 07:31:20 PM »
What a difference

U.S. Military Academy Commencement

President Bush spoke to graduating U.S. Military Academy cadets at West Point.?Topics included the war on terror and U.S. policy towards the terrorists.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?192749-1/us-military-academy-commencement

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Offline EC

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« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2014, 07:33:35 PM »
Absolutely correct.  At a formal dinner or military ball, an officer will start the toasting by tapping the glass, rising, lifting his glass and saying:  "The President of the United States".  Then a dozen or so toasts would be offered depending on the outfit you were in.  At least it used to be that way.

I still think it's unfortunate the West Point graduating class couldn't have heard Admiral McRaven instead of this smug, miserable, ineffectual, sleazy, gutless, make-believe leader with his defensive, self-important speech.  I can say that because I'm a retired officer...

That always makes me smile when we do that. Our tradition is the most junior officer proposes the toast. Watching them being red faced and embarrassed and so damned proud to do the toast is one of life's wonders.  :laugh:

Yet all forces present get toasted equally and the correct response is expected in each case.
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Offline MACVSOG68

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« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2014, 07:36:14 PM »
I thought the protocol was all military stood at attention when the Pres entered..maybe it is different at commencement ceremonies.... :shrug:......of course you can't make civilians do that....

Yes, you're right it is military protocol, even for the wives.  And while of course not required, it is proper protocol for anyone, military or civilian.  It's the office, not the person.
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Offline MACVSOG68

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« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2014, 07:39:15 PM »
That always makes me smile when we do that. Our tradition is the most junior officer proposes the toast. Watching them being red faced and embarrassed and so damned proud to do the toast is one of life's wonders.  :laugh:

Yet all forces present get toasted equally and the correct response is expected in each case.

Yes, I recall.  The officer who begins the toasting is usually nervous as hell, just knowing he'll screw up the words.  And yes, the correct responses are important. 
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Offline EC

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« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2014, 07:45:54 PM »
Yes, you're right it is military protocol, even for the wives.  And while of course not required, it is proper protocol for anyone, military or civilian.  It's the office, not the person.

Totally agree. The person may not be worth a used tissue. The office still gets respect.
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Online mystery-ak

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« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2014, 07:47:54 PM »
Well I just looked at a few West Point Commencements over the years and it must not be mandatory to rise...some stay seated depending on who the Pres is it seems....lol

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Offline Lando Lincoln

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« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2014, 09:43:43 PM »
Well I just looked at a few West Point Commencements over the years and it must not be mandatory to rise...some stay seated depending on who the Pres is it seems....lol

Surprising, actually.  The cadets are officers in training and protocol is a big part of that training.  Personally, I would expect them to be instructed to stand appropriately.
For the progressive, there is very little to love about the United States. Washington, Jefferson, Madison? A bunch of rotten slaveholders, hypocrites, and cowards even when their hearts were in the right places. The Declaration of Independence? A manifesto for the propertied classes. The Constitution? An artifact of sexism and white supremacy. The sacrifices in the great wars of the 20th century? Feeding the poor and the disenfranchised into the meat-grinder of imperialism. The gifts of Carnegie, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Morgan, Astor? Blood money from self-aggrandizing robber barons. Nat Rev

Offline MACVSOG68

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« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2014, 10:27:39 PM »
Surprising, actually.  The cadets are officers in training and protocol is a big part of that training.  Personally, I would expect them to be instructed to stand appropriately.

I didn't go to West Point so I don't know if the graduates and guests are told to remain seated or not.  I do know the normal protocol for the CIC is for everyone to stand when he's announced or otherwise enters the area.  In fact, unless things have dramatically changed, everyone would rise when a senior command officer enters a room. 

Reminds me, I still remember handing the dollar bill to the first enlisted salute.
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Offline Lando Lincoln

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« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2014, 10:31:19 PM »
I have a good friend whose son graduated from West Point just last year.  I will ask about this. 
For the progressive, there is very little to love about the United States. Washington, Jefferson, Madison? A bunch of rotten slaveholders, hypocrites, and cowards even when their hearts were in the right places. The Declaration of Independence? A manifesto for the propertied classes. The Constitution? An artifact of sexism and white supremacy. The sacrifices in the great wars of the 20th century? Feeding the poor and the disenfranchised into the meat-grinder of imperialism. The gifts of Carnegie, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Morgan, Astor? Blood money from self-aggrandizing robber barons. Nat Rev


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