Author Topic: English Breakfast Tea  (Read 1790 times)

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Offline EC

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English Breakfast Tea
« on: May 24, 2014, 08:02:08 AM »
Overshadowed by the hype and hullabaloo of the VA and the Benghazi scandals in the USA, the UK held an election this week for local councilors, Mayors, and Members of the European Parliament over much of the country, including every borough in the Greater London area. While the MEP results will not be released until late Sunday, due to other Euro countries having elections today, the count is in for the local political figures.

In terms of control of borough councils, the Conservatives lost outright control of 12. This was in no way surprising, as local elections are frequently seen as a mini referendum on the party of the Prime Minister. What was surprising and something which is distinctly new on the political map is that Labour did not pick up those seats. 8 of the 12 losses went to No Overall Control, in which no party has a majority.

In terms of actual seats at the table nationally, the big story was UKIP - the UK Independence Party. They now hold 163 council seats nationwide, a gain of 128 over last year. Not exactly a seismic shift in the political landscape, but certainly a significant one. People are upset with the same old parties, the same old platitudes and the same old lies, and it is starting to show. That may sound familiar to our more conservative American readers. So, pour yourself a nice cup of TEA, and lets have a look at them.

UKIP is, much as the TEA party supposedly is, a single issue party which draws members from all walks of life and political affiliations. TEA Party is for smaller, leaner government. UKIP is for shutting the flow of legal and illegal immigration and getting the cold, dead hands of Brussels out of our affairs for good. Officially, at least.

Within the European Community, any citizen of any member nation can move to any other member state at whim and work. No visas, no work permits needed, just a valid ID card or passport. It is very much the same as in the USA, just with nations rather than states. In some ways it is a good thing, allowing free flow of goods, services and labor to whichever nation needs it. Free and open trade and freedom of movement is one of the cornerstones of a capitalist society. Yet it has it's problems.

As we are a collection of Nations, each nation has it's own internal systems for health, welfare, education, housing and taxation. All of which are legally extended to every member citizen without question. That puts a huge strain on the more successful economies within the EU, since people will invariably look out for number one and benefit hop. France and Germany get this particularly badly. The UK, oddly, not so much. The Poles, Lithuanians and Romanians (in my personal experience) do actually seem to come here to work instead of sponge off our relatively generous benefits.

They undercut local workers. Most of the ones we get are skilled tradespeople. Hard working, fast, and about half the price of our local tradespeople, so they crowd out independent contractors at an ever increasing pace. That builds resentment, fast.

Adding to the UKIP complexity is the UK's status as head of the Commonwealth. Commonwealth Citizens may have to jump through a few more hoops to enter the UK permanently, but the hoops are large and sit on the floor, not up in the air. Not much jumping is required. They arrive and set up shop - often literally - and of course, they preferentially employ their own family members in said shop. Don't get me wrong, they work damned hard in the main, but it's another squeeze on the British attempting to get a foothold on the ladder. Again, resentment crops up.

This resentment is what is powering UKIP and what will, unless the leadership is very cautious, will destroy them. Racism is an ugly word and an ugly thing, yet UKIP relies on it to an extent to get their message across. Much like the original aim of the TEA party has slowly but steadily been diluted by social conservatives, UKIP's message is being slowly but surely tarnished and damaged by what we charmingly call here the "Paki-bashers."

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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: English Breakfast Tea
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2014, 01:13:38 PM »
The commingling of establishment resentment and nativism makes for an cloudy, bitter cup of tea.

Nice piece.

Offline alicewonders

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Re: English Breakfast Tea
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2014, 01:44:43 PM »
The commingling of establishment resentment and nativism makes for an cloudy, bitter cup of tea.

Nice piece.

Speaking for myself - the resentment that I feel these days is directed at the "elites" that have so soiled the nurturing nest from which they arose - that they have to attract new  - I'll call them "starlings" - to come and grow a demographic that will support them (and keep them in power) because they feed them and keep them fat and happy with the spoils taken from those of us who originally gave this power to them (the elites). 

Because we only have so much space and resources - the original producers that built and enabled this "kingdom" start finding themselves crowded out of their own created community.  Naturally, a resentment starts to build and conflicts begin. 

So, in my view, it's not so much a case of "establishment resentment" as I believe that we see ourselves as the establishment - we see ourselves as the builders - and we see ourselves losing the power we once had (ironically, like Dorothy's ruby slippers in Oz, we still have that power - but we don't realize it anymore).  I don't think "nativism" is the right word either - we have always welcomed those from other lands - welcomed them with open arms.  But we have always expected them to follow the rules - and now these "starlings" come in and with the help of the powerful elite - they populate our communities and destroy our carefully maintained nests.  They have an unfair advantage that we don't get from the elites. 

 

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Re: English Breakfast Tea
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2014, 02:46:13 PM »
Speaking for myself - the resentment that I feel these days is directed at the "elites" that have so soiled the nurturing nest from which they arose - that they have to attract new  - I'll call them "starlings" - to come and grow a demographic that will support them (and keep them in power) because they feed them and keep them fat and happy with the spoils taken from those of us who originally gave this power to them (the elites). 

Because we only have so much space and resources - the original producers that built and enabled this "kingdom" start finding themselves crowded out of their own created community.  Naturally, a resentment starts to build and conflicts begin. 

So, in my view, it's not so much a case of "establishment resentment" as I believe that we see ourselves as the establishment - we see ourselves as the builders - and we see ourselves losing the power we once had (ironically, like Dorothy's ruby slippers in Oz, we still have that power - but we don't realize it anymore).  I don't think "nativism" is the right word either - we have always welcomed those from other lands - welcomed them with open arms.  But we have always expected them to follow the rules - and now these "starlings" come in and with the help of the powerful elite - they populate our communities and destroy our carefully maintained nests.  They have an unfair advantage that we don't get from the elites. 

 

If I may be so bold as to offer a few friendly edits.

"Speaking for myself - the resentment that I feel these days is directed at the "elites" that have so soiled the nurturing nest from which they arose - that they have to attract new  - I'll call them "starlings" - to come and grow a demographic that will support them (and keep them in power)  and because they feed  and nurture them and keep them fat and happy with what they have the spoils taken from those of us who originally gave this power to them (the elites). 

Because we only have so much space and resources - the original producers that built and enabled this "kingdom" start finding themselves crowded out of their own created community.  Naturally, a resentment starts to build and conflicts begin. 

So, in my view, it's not so much a case of "establishment resentment" as I believe that we see ourselves as the establishment - we see ourselves as the builders - and we see ourselves losing the power we once had (ironically, like Dorothy's ruby slippers in Oz, we still have that power - but we don't realize it anymore).  I don't think "nativism" is the right word either - we have always welcomed those from other lands - welcomed them with open arms.  But we have always expected them to follow the rules and provide for themselves. - and Nnow these "starlings" come in and are aided  by with the help of the powerful elite who against our will use resources provided by us - they to help them populate our communities and destroy our carefully maintained nests.  They are unfairly given have an unfair advantage over us that they should not have. that we don't get from the elites. "
« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 02:47:19 PM by Bigun »

Offline alicewonders

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Re: English Breakfast Tea
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2014, 03:02:44 PM »
If I may be so bold as to offer a few friendly edits.

"Speaking for myself - the resentment that I feel these days is directed at the "elites" that have so soiled the nurturing nest from which they arose - that they have to attract new  - I'll call them "starlings" - to come and grow a demographic that will support them (and keep them in power)  and because they feed  and nurture them and keep them fat and happy with what they have the spoils taken from those of us who originally gave this power to them (the elites). 

Because we only have so much space and resources - the original producers that built and enabled this "kingdom" start finding themselves crowded out of their own created community.  Naturally, a resentment starts to build and conflicts begin. 

So, in my view, it's not so much a case of "establishment resentment" as I believe that we see ourselves as the establishment - we see ourselves as the builders - and we see ourselves losing the power we once had (ironically, like Dorothy's ruby slippers in Oz, we still have that power - but we don't realize it anymore).  I don't think "nativism" is the right word either - we have always welcomed those from other lands - welcomed them with open arms.  But we have always expected them to follow the rules and provide for themselves. - and Nnow these "starlings" come in and are aided  by with the help of the powerful elite who against our will use resources provided by us - they to help them populate our communities and destroy our carefully maintained nests.  They are unfairly given have an unfair advantage over us that they should not have. that we don't get from the elites. "

That says it pretty good Bigun! 

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Offline alicewonders

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Re: English Breakfast Tea
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2014, 03:14:39 PM »
Overshadowed by the hype and hullabaloo of the VA and the Benghazi scandals in the USA, the UK held an election this week for local councilors, Mayors, and Members of the European Parliament over much of the country, including every borough in the Greater London area. While the MEP results will not be released until late Sunday, due to other Euro countries having elections today, the count is in for the local political figures.

In terms of control of borough councils, the Conservatives lost outright control of 12. This was in no way surprising, as local elections are frequently seen as a mini referendum on the party of the Prime Minister. What was surprising and something which is distinctly new on the political map is that Labour did not pick up those seats. 8 of the 12 losses went to No Overall Control, in which no party has a majority.

In terms of actual seats at the table nationally, the big story was UKIP - the UK Independence Party. They now hold 163 council seats nationwide, a gain of 128 over last year. Not exactly a seismic shift in the political landscape, but certainly a significant one. People are upset with the same old parties, the same old platitudes and the same old lies, and it is starting to show. That may sound familiar to our more conservative American readers. So, pour yourself a nice cup of TEA, and lets have a look at them.

UKIP is, much as the TEA party supposedly is, a single issue party which draws members from all walks of life and political affiliations. TEA Party is for smaller, leaner government. UKIP is for shutting the flow of legal and illegal immigration and getting the cold, dead hands of Brussels out of our affairs for good. Officially, at least.

Within the European Community, any citizen of any member nation can move to any other member state at whim and work. No visas, no work permits needed, just a valid ID card or passport. It is very much the same as in the USA, just with nations rather than states. In some ways it is a good thing, allowing free flow of goods, services and labor to whichever nation needs it. Free and open trade and freedom of movement is one of the cornerstones of a capitalist society. Yet it has it's problems.

As we are a collection of Nations, each nation has it's own internal systems for health, welfare, education, housing and taxation. All of which are legally extended to every member citizen without question. That puts a huge strain on the more successful economies within the EU, since people will invariably look out for number one and benefit hop. France and Germany get this particularly badly. The UK, oddly, not so much. The Poles, Lithuanians and Romanians (in my personal experience) do actually seem to come here to work instead of sponge off our relatively generous benefits.

They undercut local workers. Most of the ones we get are skilled tradespeople. Hard working, fast, and about half the price of our local tradespeople, so they crowd out independent contractors at an ever increasing pace. That builds resentment, fast.

Adding to the UKIP complexity is the UK's status as head of the Commonwealth. Commonwealth Citizens may have to jump through a few more hoops to enter the UK permanently, but the hoops are large and sit on the floor, not up in the air. Not much jumping is required. They arrive and set up shop - often literally - and of course, they preferentially employ their own family members in said shop. Don't get me wrong, they work damned hard in the main, but it's another squeeze on the British attempting to get a foothold on the ladder. Again, resentment crops up.

This resentment is what is powering UKIP and what will, unless the leadership is very cautious, will destroy them. Racism is an ugly word and an ugly thing, yet UKIP relies on it to an extent to get their message across. Much like the original aim of the TEA party has slowly but steadily been diluted by social conservatives, UKIP's message is being slowly but surely tarnished and damaged by what we charmingly call here the "Paki-bashers."


This is happening everywhere - the elites have installed themselves comfortably in power and they will do anything to keep it, even if it means selling the very people that put them there down the river.  The charge of "racism" is used as a wedge to divide the people and keep us from speaking up too loud against what they are doing.  That strategy has been working like a charm, but I think it is losing it's edge - overused!   

For the most part, the disgruntled masses are NOT racist - they are just trying to protect what they have built. 

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Re: English Breakfast Tea
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2014, 03:23:40 PM »
That says it pretty good Bigun!

You said it very well yourself but I felt the need to 'help" just a little!  :whistle:

Hope you don't mind!

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Re: English Breakfast Tea
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2014, 03:25:18 PM »
I believe if elections were held in virtually every nation in Europe, they would opt for less immigration.

In particular, less muslim immigration.

Call that nativist, call it racist, call it whatever, but it is quite normal for a citizen to resent that which has fouled his community.

Burning cars in Paris, turning Malmo into a sewer, bombing trains, etc.

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Offline massadvj

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Re: English Breakfast Tea
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2014, 03:33:12 PM »
The EU economy, like the US economy, cannot prosper without robust immigration for the simple reason that the natives are not having enough babies to sustain things.  People lament all the immigrants but they don't seem willing to give up the western coffee house metrosexual consumerist lifestyle.
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Offline alicewonders

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Re: English Breakfast Tea
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2014, 03:55:37 PM »
You said it very well yourself but I felt the need to 'help" just a little!  :whistle:

Hope you don't mind!

Not at all, I appreciated it!

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Offline alicewonders

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Re: English Breakfast Tea
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2014, 04:00:43 PM »
The EU economy, like the US economy, cannot prosper without robust immigration for the simple reason that the natives are not having enough babies to sustain things.  People lament all the immigrants but they don't seem willing to give up the western coffee house metrosexual consumerist lifestyle.

That's an excellent point.  We have now, several generations of people, that have been made to feel "guilty" about overpopulating the earth and using up our "precious" resources.  The trouble is, there are other groups of people that don't hold to that stupid ideology and they are out-populating us.  Almost like it was "by design". 
 
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: English Breakfast Tea
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2014, 04:03:57 PM »
The EU economy, like the US economy, cannot prosper without robust immigration for the simple reason that the natives are not having enough babies to sustain things.  People lament all the immigrants but they don't seem willing to give up the western coffee house metrosexual consumerist lifestyle.

I am so going to steal that.

Offline speekinout

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Re: English Breakfast Tea
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2014, 06:26:05 PM »
The EU economy, like the US economy, cannot prosper without robust immigration for the simple reason that the natives are not having enough babies to sustain things.  People lament all the immigrants but they don't seem willing to give up the western coffee house metrosexual consumerist lifestyle.

Yes. Japan is in serious trouble because they don't attract immigrants, and they are like Europe and the US in not having enough babies. They have a growing elderly population and not enough young workers to pay the bills and create the markets.
I think people who are anti-immigration should take a closer look at Japan. It shows that we need to control immigration, not stop it.

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Re: English Breakfast Tea
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2014, 07:04:13 PM »
The EU economy, like the US economy, cannot prosper without robust immigration for the simple reason that the natives are not having enough babies to sustain things.  People lament all the immigrants but they don't seem willing to give up the western coffee house metrosexual consumerist lifestyle.
Interesting.

One of my old bosses, then a VP Finance of a Fortune 500 corporation, used to let his hair down and observe the constant quest of earnings growth-year by year. He said at the time, "We made $125 million dollars, which is pretty good. Way up from a few years ago. Just doing the same thing next year should be seen as pretty good, too."

Along the same lines, if a society reaches a comfortable GDP per capita, like Europe, US, etc. is it absolutely necessary to have continual "growth?"

IOW what is wrong with a stable population? Some of the highest GDP's per capita are in stable population places, and some of the lowest are in growing populations.
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Offline speekinout

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Re: English Breakfast Tea
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2014, 07:57:38 PM »
Along the same lines, if a society reaches a comfortable GDP per capita, like Europe, US, etc. is it absolutely necessary to have continual "growth?"

IOW what is wrong with a stable population? Some of the highest GDP's per capita are in stable population places, and some of the lowest are in growing populations.

I know you didn't ask me, but -  :laugh:

The problem with a stable population is that more people are growing older these days. They're leaving the productive workforce, and also leaving the market for goods. That makes a stable GDP and a stable population in conflict with each other.
Of course, if the country is paying pensions and medical care for the elderly, the problem is even worse - instead of contributing to the country, they are a drain.
I suppose that if you could keep the elderly at a given % of the population, it would be fine, but you could only do that with rather abhorrent practices - death panels and control of either reproduction or immigration or both.

Offline massadvj

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Re: English Breakfast Tea
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2014, 09:29:42 PM »
I know you didn't ask me, but -  :laugh:

The problem with a stable population is that more people are growing older these days. They're leaving the productive workforce, and also leaving the market for goods. That makes a stable GDP and a stable population in conflict with each other.
Of course, if the country is paying pensions and medical care for the elderly, the problem is even worse - instead of contributing to the country, they are a drain.
I suppose that if you could keep the elderly at a given % of the population, it would be fine, but you could only do that with rather abhorrent practices - death panels and control of either reproduction or immigration or both.

Exactly right. Without immigration the median age in the USA would be in  the 40's.  As it is, the current median age is in the mid-30's, higher than it has been at any point in history.
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Offline DCPatriot

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Re: English Breakfast Tea
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2014, 09:44:24 PM »
Exactly right. Without immigration the median age in the USA would be in  the 40's.  As it is, the current median age is in the mid-30's, higher than it has been at any point in history.

Why would we just accept numbers supplied by the government?

Why would we accept anything the government says?   :whistle:
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Offline massadvj

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Re: English Breakfast Tea
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2014, 10:23:50 PM »
Why would we just accept numbers supplied by the government?

Why would we accept anything the government says?   :whistle:

This data isn't just collected by government.  Numerous companies, such as Nielsen and many other marketing research firms, track population trends in the USA. 

There is a lot of very interesting information out there.  For example, did you know that among millennials, whites are not a majority ethnic subculture?  They comprise less than half the population of people under 30.  If you combine African Americans, Hispanics and Asians you get a majority of the millennial market, slightly outnumbering Anglos.

The forces at play that are diminishing and ultimately bringing down the dominant WASP influence on the USA are irrepressible.  This country is going to be very different in a couple of generations.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 10:24:43 PM by massadvj »
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