Author Topic: Ten Ways the Income Tax Harms Civil Liberties  (Read 522 times)

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Offline Bigun

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Ten Ways the Income Tax Harms Civil Liberties
« on: May 10, 2014, 11:30:39 AM »

Offline Bigun

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Re: Ten Ways the Income Tax Harms Civil Liberties
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2014, 11:31:17 AM »
I think by now everyone knows where I stand on this!

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Ten Ways the Income Tax Harms Civil Liberties
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2014, 12:00:02 PM »
I too personally would rather see a consumption type tax, though I can't fathom it ever coming about in place of the income tax.  I can see Congress enacting more "activity" taxes, which are in essence consumption taxes.  But the income tax is arguably the most powerful tool our elected representatives have.  The income tax system we employ in the US isn't as much a revenue vehicle as it is a tool to reward, punish and influence behavior.

One can think that the tax requirements are unconstitutional as does the author, but every possible aspect of the Code has been taken through the courts numerous times.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Ten Ways the Income Tax Harms Civil Liberties
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2014, 12:07:21 PM »
Quote
But the income tax is arguably the most powerful tool our elected representatives have.  The income tax system we employ in the US isn't as much a revenue vehicle as it is a tool to reward, punish and influence behavior.

Which is precisely why they should not have it!

http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2010/04/fed-chairman-ruml-got-it-right-in-1946.html

http://fairtax.org
« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 12:10:57 PM by Bigun »

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Ten Ways the Income Tax Harms Civil Liberties
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2014, 01:09:27 PM »
Which is precisely why they should not have it!

http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2010/04/fed-chairman-ruml-got-it-right-in-1946.html

http://fairtax.org

I don't necessarily agree with the author of the above link "fed chairman-ruml-got-it-right-in-1946" with respect to the inflationary impact of the income tax post gold standard.  We have always had inflation, and it has existed throughout history in one aspect or another.  But that is for another thread.  The problem with whether Congress should or shouldn't have taxing authority depends on which side of income level you're on, the payers or the takers.  And the takers are not into any type of consumption tax...period.
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Offline Oceander

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Re: Ten Ways the Income Tax Harms Civil Liberties
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2014, 01:26:51 PM »
I found the full Ruml article here:  http://www.constitution.org/tax/us-ic/cmt/ruml_obsolete.pdf

Rather strange.  I'm not sure I follow why it is that, if there is no federal taxation, the purchasing power of the public will be greater than the output of goods and services on which to expend that purchasing power.  It seems to me that if that is the case it is because of some other aspect of monetary policy - which is politically driven - and that taxation then becomes merely a way of trying to offset the effects of one government distortion with another government distortion.  It seems to me that the driver of this vicious circle would be a "free" or "loose" monetary policy that put way too much fiat currency into circulation - by "printing" money - in order to hand out goodies to favored constituencies.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Ten Ways the Income Tax Harms Civil Liberties
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2014, 02:10:11 PM »
The IRS has no interest in being efficient or fair. The do have an interest in complexity, and with bending for partisans, on both sides.

 

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Bigun

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Re: Ten Ways the Income Tax Harms Civil Liberties
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2014, 02:35:14 PM »
I don't necessarily agree with the author of the above link "fed chairman-ruml-got-it-right-in-1946" with respect to the inflationary impact of the income tax post gold standard.  We have always had inflation, and it has existed throughout history in one aspect or another.  But that is for another thread.  The problem with whether Congress should or shouldn't have taxing authority depends on which side of income level you're on, the payers or the takers.  And the takers are not into any type of consumption tax...period.

In his remarks Mr. Ruml said essentially the same thing you did in the portion of your post that I quoted. He was right and so are you.

The income tax is FAR more about social engineering than revenue!

And you are right about the takers not being into any type of consumption tax as well but we must insist!


Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Ten Ways the Income Tax Harms Civil Liberties
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2014, 03:09:49 PM »
I found the full Ruml article here:  http://www.constitution.org/tax/us-ic/cmt/ruml_obsolete.pdf

Rather strange.  I'm not sure I follow why it is that, if there is no federal taxation, the purchasing power of the public will be greater than the output of goods and services on which to expend that purchasing power.  It seems to me that if that is the case it is because of some other aspect of monetary policy - which is politically driven - and that taxation then becomes merely a way of trying to offset the effects of one government distortion with another government distortion.  It seems to me that the driver of this vicious circle would be a "free" or "loose" monetary policy that put way too much fiat currency into circulation - by "printing" money - in order to hand out goodies to favored constituencies.

Obviously, since government spending is part of the goods and services calculation, the concept of a faster growing economy isn't necessarily true unless one believes that a "dollar" spent by a consumer drives the GDP faster and better than a "dollar" spent by a government agency.  That's only true to the extent the consumer spends rather than saves income.  Taxation is simply an interim transfer having no direct impact on GDP, assuming no debt.  If the government though sends the money overseas, that is a different issue.  But that doesn't account for the impact of the loose monetary policy, which if inflationary means the government is paying out more for goods and services, theoretically a wash...except for creditors.

And of course it doesn't account for stupid government spending which is a political rather than economic issue.  Government debt though, IMHO, overshadows most of these issues, and requires either a greater transfer of private income through taxes or printing money, neither of which can have a positive effect on the economy because the GDP has already "benefitted" from that spending.  And that will hold down future economic growth.
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