Author Topic: Boy punished at school for refusing to stand for Pledge of Allegiance  (Read 449 times)

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Offline Machiavelli

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Rucks Russell
KHOU 11 Houston
May 7, 2014

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NEEDVILLE, Texas -- Mason Michalec says he loves his country but just not the government.

“I’m really tired of our government taking advantage of us,” said Michalec. “I don’t agree with the NSA spying on us. And I don’t agree with any of those Internet laws.”

That's why he's taken a pledge of sorts to not say the Pledge of Allegiance with classmates...

Michalec says the principal sentenced him to two days of in school suspension, and warned that he could face more ISS if his protest continued...

More, with video

Followup article: Community sounds off after school punishes boy for refusing to stand for pledge

It looks like the kid has the right to do this. He's protected by a 1943 SCOTUS ruling:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_vs._Barnette

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/319/624



If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools

-- Rudyard Kipling

A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Karl Marx is not one of our Founding Fathers.
-- Anonymous

Offline DCPatriot

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Strange as it may sound in a Conservative forum.

I agree with the "boy".   And so would our Founding Fathers.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"I am responsible for what I say.  I am not responsible for what your understand."  ...me

Offline Machiavelli

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Strange as it may sound in a Conservative forum.

I agree with the "boy".   And so would our Founding Fathers.

A lot of conservatives agree with you.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 07:51:53 PM by Machiavelli »
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools

-- Rudyard Kipling

A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Karl Marx is not one of our Founding Fathers.
-- Anonymous

Offline alicewonders

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He sounds like an extremely smart kid with a bright future ahead of him in leadership.   :patriot:

Don't tread on me.   8888madkitty

We told you Trump would win - bigly!

Offline DCPatriot

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A lot of conservatives agree with you.


It's not for the same reasons the boy indicated.

Just in general....even if GWB was POTUS, my feeling on it would be the same.

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The Pledge of Allegiance of the United States is an expression of fealty to the federal flag and the republic of the United States of America, originally composed by Francis Bellamy in 1892 and formally adopted by Congress as the pledge in 1942.[1] The official name of The Pledge of Allegiance was adopted in 1945. The last change in language came on Flag Day 1954 when the words "under God" were added.[2]

Congressional sessions open with the recital of the Pledge, as do many government meetings at local levels, and meetings held by many private organizations. It is also commonly recited in school at the beginning of every school day, although the Supreme Court has ruled on several occasions that students cannot be compelled to recite the Pledge, nor can they be punished for not doing so.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance
« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 08:13:12 PM by DCPatriot »
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"I am responsible for what I say.  I am not responsible for what your understand."  ...me

Offline Oceander

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enforced fealty to the government of the day is the mark of a tyranny, not of a democratic republic.

Offline MACVSOG68

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enforced fealty to the government of the day is the mark of a tyranny, not of a democratic republic.

Very true.  Sometimes though we can run into conflicts with ourselves.  If I saw someone burning the US Flag, I would do whatever I could to stop it. But at the same time, I'd have to recognize their right to do exactly that.  Hypocritical of me I guess, but I sense we humans have such conflicts from time to time.  As a former scout leader anyone not showing respect for the Flag or reciting the Pledge would have been tossed out immediately...well right after the opening ceremony. 
It's the Supreme Court nominations!

Offline evadR²

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I have never though of myself as pledging to the government but instead pledging my loyalty to my country.

If I thought I was pledging to THIS government, I'd have to agree with the kid and abstain.

I pledge Allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America
and to the Republic for which it stands,
one nation under God, indivisible,
with Liberty and Justice for all.

The original Pledge of Allegiance was written by Francis Bellamy (1855 - 1931), a Baptist minister, in August 1892. The Pledge was published in the September 8th issue of The Youth's Companion, the leading family magazine and the Reader's Digest of its day. In 1892, Francis Bellamy was also a chairman of a committee of state superintendents of education in the National Education Association. As its chairman, he prepared the program for the public schools' quadricentennial celebration for Columbus Day in 1892. He structured this public school program around a flag raising ceremony and a flag salute - his Pledge of Allegiance.
November 6, 2012, a day in infamy...the death of a republic as we know it.

Offline evadR²

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Very true.  Sometimes though we can run into conflicts with ourselves.  If I saw someone burning the US Flag, I would do whatever I could to stop it. But at the same time, I'd have to recognize their right to do exactly that.  Hypocritical of me I guess, but I sense we humans have such conflicts from time to time.  As a former scout leader anyone not showing respect for the Flag or reciting the Pledge would have been tossed out immediately...well right after the opening ceremony.
I agree.

I feel the same angst about what has happened to my country as I feel about what has happened to the scouts.
November 6, 2012, a day in infamy...the death of a republic as we know it.

Offline Chieftain

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I pledge allegiance to the flag, of the United States of America. And to the Republic for which it stands....

Not surprised that even today so many people simply do not understand what the Pledge really means or stands for. 

Offline MACVSOG68

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I have never though of myself as pledging to the government but instead pledging my loyalty to my country.

If I thought I was pledging to THIS government, I'd have to agree with the kid and abstain.

Absolutely!
It's the Supreme Court nominations!

Offline Oceander

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I have never though of myself as pledging to the government but instead pledging my loyalty to my country.

If I thought I was pledging to THIS government, I'd have to agree with the kid and abstain.

I pledge Allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America
and to the Republic for which it stands,
one nation under God, indivisible,
with Liberty and Justice for all.

The original Pledge of Allegiance was written by Francis Bellamy (1855 - 1931), a Baptist minister, in August 1892. The Pledge was published in the September 8th issue of The Youth's Companion, the leading family magazine and the Reader's Digest of its day. In 1892, Francis Bellamy was also a chairman of a committee of state superintendents of education in the National Education Association. As its chairman, he prepared the program for the public schools' quadricentennial celebration for Columbus Day in 1892. He structured this public school program around a flag raising ceremony and a flag salute - his Pledge of Allegiance.


And there's nothing stopping you from doing so.  However, your right to do so does not give you the right to force anyone else to similarly pledge and, in fact, enforced pledging of allegiance is antithetical to what this Republic stands for.  In other words, if you force someone else to pledge allegiance against that person's will, you have put the lie to your own pledge because your actions are inconsistent with the Republic you profess your loyalty to.

Offline Oceander

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Not surprised that even today so many people simply do not understand what the Pledge really means or stands for. 

And a true understanding of what the pledge really means or stands for gives you license to force everyone else to say the pledge?

Offline DCPatriot

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I pledge allegiance to my Lord only.  Privately.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"I am responsible for what I say.  I am not responsible for what your understand."  ...me

Offline Oceander

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I pledge allegiance to my Lord only.  Privately.

Except that it's no longer private, is it?  :silly:

Offline DCPatriot

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Except that it's no longer private, is it?  :silly:

Care to expound?   :pondering:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"I am responsible for what I say.  I am not responsible for what your understand."  ...me

Offline evadR²

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And there's nothing stopping you from doing so.  However, your right to do so does not give you the right to force anyone else to similarly pledge and, in fact, enforced pledging of allegiance is antithetical to what this Republic stands for.  In other words, if you force someone else to pledge allegiance against that person's will, you have put the lie to your own pledge because your actions are inconsistent with the Republic you profess your loyalty to.
You're preaching to the choir OC.
And I'm not sure where the "force others" remark is coming from.
November 6, 2012, a day in infamy...the death of a republic as we know it.

Offline rustynail

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Strange as it may sound in a Conservative forum.

I agree with the "boy".   And so would our Founding Fathers.

Same here. The pledge is a creation of John Dewey and the progressives. It is Not a good thing.

Offline Machiavelli

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Same here. The pledge is a creation of John Dewey and the progressives. It is Not a good thing.

It's especially bad in the lower grades. Most of the younger kids have no idea what it means but yet have to recite it by rote.
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools

-- Rudyard Kipling

A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Karl Marx is not one of our Founding Fathers.
-- Anonymous


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