Author Topic: Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth  (Read 1619 times)

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Offline mystery-ak

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Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth
« on: May 09, 2014, 09:23:30 AM »
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/pope-francis-redistribution-wealth/2014/05/09/id/570414/

 Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth

Friday, 09 May 2014 08:29 AM

 
Pope Francis called Friday for governments to redistribute wealth to the poor in a new spirit of generosity to help curb the "economy of exclusion" that is taking hold today.

Francis made the appeal during a speech to U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and the heads of major U.N. agencies who are meeting in Rome this week.

Latin America's first pope has frequently lashed out at the injustices of capitalism and the global economic system that excludes so much of humanity.

On Friday, Francis called for the United Nations to promote a "worldwide ethical mobilization" of solidarity with the poor in a new spirit of generosity.

He said a more equal form of economic progress can be had through "the legitimate redistribution of economic benefits by the state, as well as indispensable cooperation between the private sector and civil society."

Francis had a similar message to the World Economic Forum in January and in his apostolic exhortation "The Joy of the Gospel." That document, which denounced trickle-down economic theories as unproven and naive, provoked criticism in the U.S. that he was Marxist.

Francis has denied he's Marxist, and spent years in Argentina battling Marxist excesses of liberation theology. But he has said from the outset that he wants a church that "is poor and for the poor" and ministers to the most marginal of society.

On Friday, he urged the U.N. to promote development goals that attack the root causes of poverty and hunger, protect the environment and ensure "dignified" labor for all.

"Specifically, this involves challenging all forms of injustices and resisting the economy of exclusion, the throwaway culture and the culture of death which nowadays sadly risk becoming passively accepted," he said.

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Offline massadvj

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Re: Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2014, 09:28:22 AM »
Father forgive him for he knows not what he does.
"She only coughs when she lies."

Offline Oceander

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Re: Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2014, 10:16:37 AM »
I'll have to part ways with the Pope here.  What he is saying is antithetical to the thread that runs through the entire New Testament and Jesus' ministry, which - as I read it - is that it is a personal obligation between God and each individual, for that individual to do good works, to give charity to the poor, that it is not something that can be fobbed off on Caesar (i.e., secular government) and that Caesar does not do God's will, Caesar pursues its own ends.

What, by the way, is "legitimate redistribution"??  I wasn't aware that certain species of theft were legitimate; who gets to decide which?

Things like unemployment compensation, e.g., aren't primarily redistributive - their goal and end is not to redistribute wealth per se - but on providing a degree of security to those who need it most and have earned it by working.

To give the Pope the benefit of the doubt, I'll assume for now that he was really considering things like unemployment comp and other social security matters, and not the naked taking from one to give to another.

Offline flowers

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Re: Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2014, 10:55:04 AM »
Did he really say this or did the media take his quote and change it? I read elsewhere that on the popes website it says a different statement. doesn't use the word government.


Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2014, 02:09:42 PM »
"Beware false prophets, who come in sheep's clothing, but inward are ravenous wolves." —Matthew 7:15
"Just because people in positions of authority are stupid, it doesn’t mean you have to go along with it." —Arlo Guthrie

"In the excitement of great popular elections, deciding the policy of the country, and its vast patronage, frauds will be committed, if a chance is given for them." —Richard Henry Dana, Jr.

Offline mystery-ak

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Re: Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2014, 02:11:43 PM »

Father-Jonathan Morris
5 mins ·
Bad reporting by many: Pope Francis did not ask nations to "redistribute wealth". He asked them to create opportunity for all, avoiding "economic policies of exclusion". This, he says, requires "legitimate redistribution of economic benefits", meaning, specifically avoiding all "injustices" (corruption, for example, "policies of exclusion", and a "throwaway culture" which amounts to a "culture of death". This doesn't sound Marxist to me.

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Offline Relic

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Re: Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2014, 02:14:30 PM »
Father-Jonathan Morris
5 mins ·
Bad reporting by many: Pope Francis did not ask nations to "redistribute wealth". He asked them to create opportunity for all, avoiding "economic policies of exclusion". This, he says, requires "legitimate redistribution of economic benefits", meaning, specifically avoiding all "injustices" (corruption, for example, "policies of exclusion", and a "throwaway culture" which amounts to a "culture of death". This doesn't sound Marxist to me.

If there is one thing these forums have taught me, it's to avoid making judgements based on headlines.
(I still slip up on occasion).

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2014, 02:19:23 PM »
Father-Jonathan Morris
5 mins ·
Bad reporting by many: Pope Francis did not ask nations to "redistribute wealth". He asked them to create opportunity for all, avoiding "economic policies of exclusion". This, he says, requires "legitimate redistribution of economic benefits", meaning, specifically avoiding all "injustices" (corruption, for example, "policies of exclusion", and a "throwaway culture" which amounts to a "culture of death". This doesn't sound Marxist to me.
There isn't much mistaking "the legitimate redistribution of economic benefits by the state." That phrase is inherently socialist in nature.
"Just because people in positions of authority are stupid, it doesn’t mean you have to go along with it." —Arlo Guthrie

"In the excitement of great popular elections, deciding the policy of the country, and its vast patronage, frauds will be committed, if a chance is given for them." —Richard Henry Dana, Jr.

Online DCPatriot

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Re: Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2014, 02:35:46 PM »
SHUT UP AND PRAY! 
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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of tongue and pen,
the saddest are these...

It might have been.   ...Maud Muller

Offline evadR²

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Re: Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2014, 03:12:20 PM »
"Beware false prophets, who come in sheep's clothing, but inward are ravenous wolves." —Matthew 7:15

..and wear funny looking hats.
November 6, 2012, a day in infamy...the death of a republic as we know it.

Offline flowers

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Re: Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2014, 03:47:13 PM »
Father-Jonathan Morris
5 mins ·
Bad reporting by many: Pope Francis did not ask nations to "redistribute wealth". He asked them to create opportunity for all, avoiding "economic policies of exclusion". This, he says, requires "legitimate redistribution of economic benefits", meaning, specifically avoiding all "injustices" (corruption, for example, "policies of exclusion", and a "throwaway culture" which amounts to a "culture of death". This doesn't sound Marxist to me.
glad you posted this


Offline rustynail

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Re: Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2014, 03:54:19 PM »
So Catholic and Democrat are pretty much one and the same.

Offline Oceander

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Re: Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2014, 05:34:30 PM »
Father-Jonathan Morris
5 mins ·
Bad reporting by many: Pope Francis did not ask nations to "redistribute wealth". He asked them to create opportunity for all, avoiding "economic policies of exclusion". This, he says, requires "legitimate redistribution of economic benefits", meaning, specifically avoiding all "injustices" (corruption, for example, "policies of exclusion", and a "throwaway culture" which amounts to a "culture of death". This doesn't sound Marxist to me.

Thank you so much for posting that - and shame on me for being too lazy to go look for it myself - because what he said is quite different than what it was reported he said.

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Re: Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2014, 06:34:48 PM »
The LDS an organization like this. We have something called the Relief Society which has been around since 1842.The Relief Society is the oldest women's organization in the world. It is for all women 18 years of age and older. The motto of Relief Society is "Charity Never Faileth". One of their goals is to serve others in need

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2014, 09:35:47 PM »
Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God's"…

The Pope's job is to deal with the latter half of that statement -- NOT with the first half.

Get thee into the Sistine Chapel and shut up….

Offline EC

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Re: Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2014, 09:44:48 PM »
Caring for the sick and elderly and assisting the poor is Gods. You are supposed to do it voluntarily though, not have it done forcibly on your behalf.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2014, 09:45:04 PM »
Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God's"…

The Pope's job is to deal with the latter half of that statement -- NOT with the first half.

Get thee into the Sistine Chapel and shut up….

Not only do you misunderstand Jesus' quote, but you,like Obama, want moral opinion relegated to the four walls of a church building.

If Jesus' message can't be proclaimed in the streets and in the media, then His message is worthless.

Read Matthew 25 if you want to know how important Jesus considered the way we treat our brothers and sisters.
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Offline EC

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Re: Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2014, 09:57:20 PM »
Thank you, sink! Got a trick mind for a lot of things but I can never remember the relevant passage numbers!
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Re: Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2014, 12:03:03 AM »
Caring for the sick and elderly and assisting the poor is Gods. You are supposed to do it voluntarily though, not have it done forcibly on your behalf.


The Relief Society does this. We go to the stations at 4:30 AM and serve the poor all day from our pantries.I have been too many missions to feed the poor
« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 12:04:19 AM by SPQR »

Offline EC

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Re: Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2014, 12:27:49 AM »
The Relief Society does this. We go to the stations at 4:30 AM and serve the poor all day from our pantries.I have been too many missions to feed the poor

I have heard they do fine work!  :beer: In fact, the hot food line we use in MsF was first dreamed up by a pair of LDS doctors. Best damned idea, ever. Never met them, but it's part of the history.

Though some of the convent and hospital orders want words about them being the oldest women's relief organization.  :laugh:
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Re: Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2014, 12:39:05 AM »
I have heard they do fine work!  :beer: In fact, the hot food line we use in MsF was first dreamed up by a pair of LDS doctors. Best damned idea, ever. Never met them, but it's part of the history.

Though some of the convent and hospital orders want words about them being the oldest women's relief organization.  :laugh:

Relief Society was established in 1842 for women 18 years of age and older. Its purpose is to build faith and personal righteousness, strengthen families and homes, and help those in need.Men are allowed at Relief Society fuctions

https://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church/relief-society?lang=eng#96
« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 01:44:52 AM by SPQR »

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2014, 01:08:08 AM »
Sigh...
“[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State’s right to economize when necessary …” The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).

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Re: Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2014, 01:11:33 AM »
Sigh...

I guess we will not put your name for tickets to the Mormon Tabernacle.

 :silly: :silly:
« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 01:18:12 AM by SPQR »

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2014, 01:43:04 AM »
The Relief Society does this. We go to the stations at 4:30 AM and serve the poor all day from our pantries.I have been too many missions to feed the poor
My father was raised Mormon, but left when he married my mother. That was the deal.

He told us of the good works of the church. A sort of joke I've heard goes this way.

The best place for a down and out Catholic to find himself, is in Salt Lake City.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.”

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Offline EC

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Re: Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' of Wealth
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2014, 02:07:42 AM »
My father was raised Mormon, but left when he married my mother. That was the deal.

He told us of the good works of the church. A sort of joke I've heard goes this way.

The best place for a down and out Catholic to find himself, is in Salt Lake City.

Yep. Sure - they are bound to have their contingent of holier than thou assholes (or just plain assholes), but I liked the Mormons I met. Polite, friendly, helpful to a fault. Believe in hard work, self improvement, self reliance - Gee wizz, it's almost like they are conservatives or something ....

Don't get their theology at all though.
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