Author Topic: Our Socialist Pope  (Read 360 times)

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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Our Socialist Pope
« on: May 02, 2014, 03:13:41 PM »
A reading from the Book of Marx:

“[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State’s right to economize when necessary …” The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).

Offline Rivergirl

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Re: Our Socialist Pope
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2014, 04:37:26 PM »
The social justice pope.  A great loss for traditional catholics.

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Our Socialist Pope
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2014, 05:05:21 PM »
A reading from the Book of Marx:

I thought it was supposed to be "mammon" (the love of money) that was the root of all evil.

That being said, in the pontiff's defense, it does not necessarily mean financial inequality. In fact, it appears he is more explicitly targeting social inequality, the idea that some people are more equal than others, as Orwell once put it. In that regard, there is a great deal of truth.
"Just because people in positions of authority are stupid, it doesn’t mean you have to go along with it." —Arlo Guthrie

"In the excitement of great popular elections, deciding the policy of the country, and its vast patronage, frauds will be committed, if a chance is given for them." —Richard Henry Dana, Jr.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Our Socialist Pope
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2014, 05:17:23 PM »
I thought it was supposed to be "mammon" (the love of money) that was the root of all evil.

That being said, in the pontiff's defense, it does not necessarily mean financial inequality. In fact, it appears he is more explicitly targeting social inequality, the idea that some people are more equal than others, as Orwell once put it. In that regard, there is a great deal of truth.

There a number of places where the Bible acknowledges that the poor will always be among us, yet not once where it describes poverty as being the result of the existence of evil. So is the Bible condoning inequality? The Pope certainly seems to be swimming against Biblical teachings here.
“[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State’s right to economize when necessary …” The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).

Offline Oceander

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Re: Our Socialist Pope
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2014, 06:02:24 PM »
I think it all depends on what he means by "inequality".  Inequality of result arising on a level playing field is one thing - that is what progs & dems rail against - but inequality arising because there are different sets of rules for different classes of people - typically, one set for the rich and another, less favorable, for the poor - is at the root of social evil.

The Pope is (usually) more concerned with the less well-off parts of the world, the countries and societies where there are different sets of rules for the rich and the poor, or for the white and the black (not really anymore, except in affirmative action USA), or for Tutsi and Hutu, or ....  Of course, not only is that state of affairs the result of an undeveloped society, it is also the result of imposing socialism/fascism on a country, whether developed or not.  That is already happening here with Obastardcare because, as the WSJ pointed out yesterday, a two-tiered health care system is already emerging in the US, with the rich getting one type of health care - much better health care - and the rest of us being left with the dregs.  This sort of inequality is the result of depriving a society of equality of opportunity.

Inequality of opportunity is most definitely a major cause of social evils, and the best cure humanity has yet found is a culture premised on free markets, robust private property and contract law effectively and objectively enforced, and government primarily involved in making sure that the predicates necessary for these to work, e.g., anti-trust rules and sensible rules that lessen the information disparity between various classes of market participants.  In other words, the US and, more generally, free-market capitalism.

Offline Dexter

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Re: Our Socialist Pope
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2014, 06:13:08 PM »
He openly condemns capitalism, and based on some of the other stuff he has said I think it is pretty safe to say that he at least leans towards socialism.
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Our Socialist Pope
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2014, 06:23:34 PM »
He openly condemns capitalism, and based on some of the other stuff he has said I think it is pretty safe to say that he at least leans towards socialism.

Liberation theology.
“[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State’s right to economize when necessary …” The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).

Offline Oceander

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Re: Our Socialist Pope
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2014, 06:58:39 PM »
He openly condemns capitalism, and based on some of the other stuff he has said I think it is pretty safe to say that he at least leans towards socialism.

He hasn't openly condemned capitalism without qualification.  And the qualifiers he's used sound more like crony capitalism - i.e., Obama-style leftist "capitalism" - and not honest capitalism.

Offline raml

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Re: Our Socialist Pope
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2014, 07:41:22 PM »
I doubt this pope ever even read the bible the foundation of Christianity.

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Our Socialist Pope
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2014, 09:26:30 PM »
Luis wrote above:
[[ Liberation theology... ]]

Well, what else would one -expect- from a Pope from... Argentina, wasn't it ??

He won't be the Pope forever...

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Our Socialist Pope
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2014, 10:02:01 PM »
He openly condemns capitalism, and based on some of the other stuff he has said I think it is pretty safe to say that he at least leans towards socialism.

Where has Pope Francis openly condemned capitalism?  He has spoken against "unfettered capitalism," as did Benedict and John Paul II. 

There is no such thing as "unfettered capitalism." 

The Church's social teachings lean toward egalitarianism.  They always have.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Our Socialist Pope
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2014, 10:03:16 PM »
I doubt this pope ever even read the bible the foundation of Christianity.

You base this on what?  Try to leave your anti-Catholicism out of your answer.
From  "A Shining City on a Hill"

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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Our Socialist Pope
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2014, 10:08:38 PM »
I doubt this pope ever even read the bible the foundation of Christianity.

That is an absurd thing to say.
“[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State’s right to economize when necessary …” The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Our Socialist Pope
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2014, 10:13:34 PM »
You know sink, I'm Catholic and I have a lot of hard-core Catholic friends and relatives. A couple of seminarians in the bunch.

I've seen a lot of eyebrows raise and brows furrow over this Pope.

This thread, and my comment before the video is a Tweet from my staunchest Catholic friend.
“[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State’s right to economize when necessary …” The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).

Offline PzLdr

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Re: Our Socialist Pope
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2014, 11:20:28 PM »
Luis wrote above:
[[ Liberation theology... ]]

Well, what else would one -expect- from a Pope from... Argentina, wasn't it ??

He won't be the Pope forever...

And a Jebbie to boot. Jesuits INVENTED Liberation theology.
Hillary's Self-announced Qualifications: She Stood Up To Putin...She Sits to Pee

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Our Socialist Pope
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2014, 12:04:57 AM »
You know sink, I'm Catholic and I have a lot of hard-core Catholic friends and relatives. A couple of seminarians in the bunch.

I've seen a lot of eyebrows raise and brows furrow over this Pope.

This thread, and my comment before the video is a Tweet from my staunchest Catholic friend.

I love this Pope.  I'm a cradle Catholic, and I think and believe that the institutional Church needs to relearn the basics of discipleship.

That means, we will never know the mind and heart of Jesus Christ if we don't really KNOW the mind and heart of Jesus Christ.  A Christ who challenged the tenets of the prevailing Judaic orthodoxy, who got down into the mess of peoples' lives, who forgave sins no matter who the sinner was, who dined and called those who were "the least" in his milieu. 

Too much judgment in our Church. Too much institutional concern, and not enough focus on the mind and heart of Jesus.
From  "A Shining City on a Hill"

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Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Our Socialist Pope
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2014, 07:42:30 AM »
I love this Pope.  I'm a cradle Catholic, and I think and believe that the institutional Church needs to relearn the basics of discipleship.

That means, we will never know the mind and heart of Jesus Christ if we don't really KNOW the mind and heart of Jesus Christ.  A Christ who challenged the tenets of the prevailing Judaic orthodoxy, who got down into the mess of peoples' lives, who forgave sins no matter who the sinner was, who dined and called those who were "the least" in his milieu. 

Too much judgment in our Church. Too much institutional concern, and not enough focus on the mind and heart of Jesus.
Jesus also called each and every sinner he encountered to REPENT, something tragically lost on this generation-- and glaringly absent from most of Francis's teachings.
"Just because people in positions of authority are stupid, it doesn’t mean you have to go along with it." —Arlo Guthrie

"In the excitement of great popular elections, deciding the policy of the country, and its vast patronage, frauds will be committed, if a chance is given for them." —Richard Henry Dana, Jr.


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