Author Topic: DC Democrat: Iraq 'Most Catastrophic War of the 20th Century'  (Read 1289 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online mystery-ak

  • Owner
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 252,287
http://cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/matt-vespa/dc-democrat-iraq-most-catastrophic-war-20th-century?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Marketing&utm_term=Facebook&utm_content=Facebook&utm_campaign=B-WarCatastrophic

DC Democrat: Iraq 'Most Catastrophic War of the 20th Century'
May 1, 2014 - 11:58 AM

By Matt Vespa

This morning, Congresswoman Eleanor Holmes Norton said that "perhaps the most catastrophic war of the 20th Century - invasion by the United States of America" in Iraq.

Let's hope Ms. Norton isn't marginalizing the horror that of the Second World War.  Over 60 million people died in that conflict, making it the deadliest - and "most catastrophic" -  in all of human history.  For goodness sake, nuclear weapons were used, Ms. Norton!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNS-PUy3qSg" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNS-PUy3qSg</a>

Support the USO

Offline jmyrlefuller

  • J. Myrle Fuller
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 12,633
  • There's no one out there quite like me.
    • Fullervision
Re: DC Democrat: Iraq 'Most Catastrophic War of the 20th Century'
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2014, 06:59:03 PM »
Hmm... the most catastrophic war of a century that ended three years before the war actually began. Impressive.
"Just because people in positions of authority are stupid, it doesn’t mean you have to go along with it." —Arlo Guthrie

"In the excitement of great popular elections, deciding the policy of the country, and its vast patronage, frauds will be committed, if a chance is given for them." —Richard Henry Dana, Jr.

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 21,369
  • The income tax: Root of all evil!
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: DC Democrat: Iraq 'Most Catastrophic War of the 20th Century'
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2014, 07:17:31 PM »
Hmm... the most catastrophic war of a century that ended three years before the war actually began. Impressive.

Yeah but it WAS a very catastrophic war! For Saddam Hussein and his minions!

Offline musiclady

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 15,939
Re: DC Democrat: Iraq 'Most Catastrophic War of the 20th Century'
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2014, 10:27:30 PM »
Hmm... the most catastrophic war of a century that ended three years before the war actually began. Impressive.

She's clearly a well educated and intelligent human being......  **nononono*

Perhaps she just got freaked out by Y2K and slept through the change of the millennium.....
Character still matters.  It always matters.

May 3, 2016 - the day the Republican party left ME.  I am now without a Party, and quite possibly without a country.  May God have mercy!

Offline Dexter

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,244
Re: DC Democrat: Iraq 'Most Catastrophic War of the 20th Century'
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2014, 10:30:24 PM »
Yeah but it WAS a very catastrophic war! For Saddam Hussein and his minions!


Documented civilian deaths from violence
123,124 – 136,987

Total violent deaths including combatants
188,000

It was also catastrophic for Iraqi civilians, the families of our soldiers, our economy and our world image.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 21,369
  • The income tax: Root of all evil!
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: DC Democrat: Iraq 'Most Catastrophic War of the 20th Century'
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2014, 10:30:41 PM »
She's clearly a well educated and intelligent human being......  **nononono*

Perhaps she just got freaked out by Y2K and slept through the change of the millennium.....

 :happyhappy:  :mauslaff: 000hehehehe :bigsilly:

Offline musiclady

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 15,939
Re: DC Democrat: Iraq 'Most Catastrophic War of the 20th Century'
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2014, 10:46:14 PM »
Yeah but it WAS a very catastrophic war! For Saddam Hussein and his minions!

Catastrophic, indeed!

[Photo removed because of liberals on the thread]

A fine young soldier atop a vacated palace.  Year.......... 2003 (21st century!)  ^-^
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 11:20:41 PM by musiclady »
Character still matters.  It always matters.

May 3, 2016 - the day the Republican party left ME.  I am now without a Party, and quite possibly without a country.  May God have mercy!

Offline musiclady

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 15,939
Re: DC Democrat: Iraq 'Most Catastrophic War of the 20th Century'
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2014, 10:49:06 PM »

Documented civilian deaths from violence
123,124 – 136,987

Total violent deaths including combatants
188,000

It was also catastrophic for Iraqi civilians, the families of our soldiers, our economy and our world image.

Terrorism was catastrophic for Iraqi civilians.

And don't go speaking for the "families of our soldiers."  We're PROUD of what our sons, daughters, husbands and wives did to liberate the Iraqi people from Saddam Hussein.

One more thing............ our "world image" was a heck of a lot better then than it is now.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

May 3, 2016 - the day the Republican party left ME.  I am now without a Party, and quite possibly without a country.  May God have mercy!

Offline Dexter

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,244
Re: DC Democrat: Iraq 'Most Catastrophic War of the 20th Century'
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2014, 10:55:02 PM »
Terrorism was catastrophic for Iraqi civilians.

And don't go speaking for the "families of our soldiers."  We're PROUD of what our sons, daughters, husbands and wives did to liberate the Iraqi people from Saddam Hussein.

One more thing............ our "world image" was a heck of a lot better then than it is now.

I'm not saying Saddam didn't need to be dealt with, but seeing as he didn't attack us I don't see why it was our responsibility to wage a billions of dollars war to achieve not a whole lot in the end. I'll speak for the families of soldiers because I've attended the funerals of their sons, daughters, husbands and wives. I've seen the devastation in their eyes that first moment reality hits them and they realize what has happened. Have you lost a child to war? You might be surprised how many grieving families are not so quick to talk about how proud they are of what their loved ones have died for.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates

Offline Oceander

  • Technical
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 45,513
  • #ToldYouSo
Re: DC Democrat: Iraq 'Most Catastrophic War of the 20th Century'
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2014, 11:13:27 PM »
Hmm... the most catastrophic war of a century that ended three years before the war actually began. Impressive.

:bigsilly:

Offline musiclady

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 15,939
Re: DC Democrat: Iraq 'Most Catastrophic War of the 20th Century'
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2014, 11:19:57 PM »
I'm not saying Saddam didn't need to be dealt with, but seeing as he didn't attack us I don't see why it was our responsibility to wage a billions of dollars war to achieve not a whole lot in the end. I'll speak for the families of soldiers because I've attended the funerals of their sons, daughters, husbands and wives. I've seen the devastation in their eyes that first moment reality hits them and they realize what has happened. Have you lost a child to war? You might be surprised how many grieving families are not so quick to talk about how proud they are of what their loved ones have died for.

The war in Iraq was WON by those brave troops.  It is Barack Obama who squandered the victory and threw away what had been achieved by the bravery of our military.

I repeat............don't claim to speak for the families just because you've seen 'devastation' in some of their eyes.  It could well be that you are seeing it through the eyes of those "billions" of "wasted" dollars, and not through the eyes of those on the ground who saw children freed from the brutality of a tyrannical dictator.

Another thing you're missing is how few casualties there were in Iraq relative to any other war.  The leftist propaganda machine has been churning full force for more than a decade.

Some clearly have been swallowed up by it.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

May 3, 2016 - the day the Republican party left ME.  I am now without a Party, and quite possibly without a country.  May God have mercy!

Offline musiclady

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 15,939
Re: DC Democrat: Iraq 'Most Catastrophic War of the 20th Century'
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2014, 11:24:53 PM »
btw, I find it a bit disturbing to be on a conservative board arguing with someone who AGREES with Eleanor Holmes Norton.....      **nononono*
Character still matters.  It always matters.

May 3, 2016 - the day the Republican party left ME.  I am now without a Party, and quite possibly without a country.  May God have mercy!

Offline Dexter

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,244
Re: DC Democrat: Iraq 'Most Catastrophic War of the 20th Century'
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2014, 11:26:27 PM »
The war in Iraq was WON by those brave troops.  It is Barack Obama who squandered the victory and threw away what had been achieved by the bravery of our military.

I repeat............don't claim to speak for the families just because you've seen 'devastation' in some of their eyes.  It could well be that you are seeing it through the eyes of those "billions" of "wasted" dollars, and not through the eyes of those on the ground who saw children freed from the brutality of a tyrannical dictator.

Another thing you're missing is how few casualties there were in Iraq relative to any other war.  The leftist propaganda machine has been churning full force for more than a decade.

Some clearly have been swallowed up by it.

What exactly do you think we achieved other than removing Saddam from power? We certainly didn't achieve stability or peace in the Middle East. Yeah, actually I was on the ground, and I did see children freed from a dictator. I've also seen the body parts of children strewn all over the road because of U.S attacks. I've seen children dying in misery and immense pain, completely confused and having almost no understanding of what is going on or why this has happened to them. I've seen 50 cal gunners murder an entire family because their vehicle was a little too suspicious and moving a little too quickly towards our checkpoint. I've seen children crying in the arms of their dead parents, and cursing the people that did this to them. The world is not black and white, and war is never glorious.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 11:31:44 PM by Dex4974 »
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates

Offline Dexter

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,244
Re: DC Democrat: Iraq 'Most Catastrophic War of the 20th Century'
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2014, 11:32:38 PM »
btw, I find it a bit disturbing to be on a conservative board arguing with someone who AGREES with Eleanor Holmes Norton.....      **nononono*

I get offended on a personal level when people downplay the severity of what happened overseas.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates

Offline speekinout

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4,337
Re: DC Democrat: Iraq 'Most Catastrophic War of the 20th Century'
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2014, 11:36:10 PM »
What exactly do you think we achieved other than removing Saddam from power? We certainly didn't achieve stability or peace in the Middle East. Yeah, actually I was on the ground, and I did see children freed from a dictator. I've also seen the body parts of children strewn all over the road because of U.S attacks. I've seen children dying in misery and immense pain, completely confused and having almost no understanding of what is going on or why this has happened to them. I've seen 50 cal gunners murder an entire family because their vehicle was a little too suspicious and moving a little too quickly towards our checkpoint. I've seen children crying in the arms of their dead parents, and cursing the people that did this to them. The world is not black and white, and war is never glorious.

War is Hell. But sometimes it's necessary. It took war to free the slaves in our country. It took war to end the holocaust in Europe. Just for two examples. And not everything that happened in those wars was pretty.

Offline Dexter

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,244
Re: DC Democrat: Iraq 'Most Catastrophic War of the 20th Century'
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2014, 11:44:22 PM »
War is Hell. But sometimes it's necessary. It took war to free the slaves in our country. It took war to end the holocaust in Europe. Just for two examples. And not everything that happened in those wars was pretty.

Other than removing Saddam what was achieved in Iraq? They don't have stability and there will probably never be peace in the Middle East. Once we're completely gone for good the system we tried to build will topple over and extremists/dictators will take over again.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 11:44:45 PM by Dex4974 »
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates

Offline Luis Gonzalez

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,532
    • Boiling Frogs
Re: DC Democrat: Iraq 'Most Catastrophic War of the 20th Century'
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2014, 11:51:51 PM »
What exactly do you think we achieved other than removing Saddam from power? We certainly didn't achieve stability or peace in the Middle East. Yeah, actually I was on the ground, and I did see children freed from a dictator. I've also seen the body parts of children strewn all over the road because of U.S attacks. I've seen children dying in misery and immense pain, completely confused and having almost no understanding of what is going on or why this has happened to them. I've seen 50 cal gunners murder an entire family because their vehicle was a little too suspicious and moving a little too quickly towards our checkpoint. I've seen children crying in the arms of their dead parents, and cursing the people that did this to them. The world is not black and white, and war is never glorious.

What we achieved was freeing millions while at the same time acquiring what amounted to a huge staging area for US troops at a time when we weren't really sure where the next strike against the US would come from.

The presence of nearly 250,000 battle-hardened US troops on the ground in Iraq was a serious deterrent for the Islamic regimes in the area.

It's difficult to thank people for things that never happened, but it is my heart-felt belief that the mere prresence of US troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan is responsible for many things that never happened, so I thank them.
“[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State’s right to economize when necessary …” The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).

Offline Dexter

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,244
Re: DC Democrat: Iraq 'Most Catastrophic War of the 20th Century'
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2014, 11:59:38 PM »
What we achieved was freeing millions while at the same time acquiring what amounted to a huge staging area for US troops at a time when we weren't really sure where the next strike against the US would come from.

The presence of nearly 250,000 battle-hardened US troops on the ground in Iraq was a serious deterrent for the Islamic regimes in the area.

It's difficult to thank people for things that never happened, but it is my heart-felt belief that the mere prresence of US troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan is responsible for many things that never happened, so I thank them.

Why was it our responsibility to deal with that dictator? He never attacked us, and there are lots of horrible leaders in the world (North Korea comes to mind). China is also guilty of uncountable human rights violations. Are we going to invade China too? Is it our responsibility to wage war and free all of these people? Not only can we not afford it, but it is not as black and white as that. A lot of people in Iraq didn't have a serious problem with Saddam. Maybe they weren't overly fond of him, but he was preferable to their homes and families being destroyed as collateral damage in a war that didn't need to happen. The quality of life of a LOT of Iraqi people went down tremendously after we invaded.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates

Offline speekinout

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4,337
Re: DC Democrat: Iraq 'Most Catastrophic War of the 20th Century'
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2014, 12:04:15 AM »
Other than removing Saddam what was achieved in Iraq? They don't have stability and there will probably never be peace in the Middle East. Once we're completely gone for good the system we tried to build will topple over and extremists/dictators will take over again.

There could have been stability, but we quit. The war did what it was supposed to do. It toppled Saddam, and it took away the safe haven for Al Qaeda, who were threatening us and all of our allies. Then we gave Iraq back to the enemy. But let's not confuse what the war did and what we did after we won it.

Offline Dexter

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,244
Re: DC Democrat: Iraq 'Most Catastrophic War of the 20th Century'
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2014, 12:05:34 AM »
There could have been stability, but we quit. The war did what it was supposed to do. It toppled Saddam, and it took away the safe haven for Al Qaeda, who were threatening us and all of our allies. Then we gave Iraq back to the enemy. But let's not confuse what the war did and what we did after we won it.

You think we should have kept swarms of troops in Iraq? We weren't accomplishing anything, and most of the locals hated us.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates

Offline Luis Gonzalez

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,532
    • Boiling Frogs
Re: DC Democrat: Iraq 'Most Catastrophic War of the 20th Century'
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2014, 12:25:24 AM »
Why was it our responsibility to deal with that dictator? He never attacked us, and there are lots of horrible leaders in the world (North Korea comes to mind). China is also guilty of uncountable human rights violations. Are we going to invade China too? Is it our responsibility to wage war and free all of these people? Not only can we not afford it, but it is not as black and white as that. A lot of people in Iraq didn't have a serious problem with Saddam. Maybe they weren't overly fond of him, but he was preferable to their homes and families being destroyed as collateral damage in a war that didn't need to happen. The quality of life of a LOT of Iraqi people went down tremendously after we invaded.

I think the dictator thing was an excuse.

We were going to war in that region and the outcome was uncertain. We weren't even really sure what it was that we were going to do, but we knew we had to go and show governments that we wouldn't put up with them allowing terrorists to train on their soil to attacks us. So why not begin the war by taking out the guy with the largest standing army in the region so that we don't have to worry about what he will do?

The freeing the people is how we (by and large) "sell" the war to America... it makes us nobler somehow.

The war was necessary, not as an attempt to stabilize the region... that will never be accomplished, but rather to react to an attack on our soil.

We couldn't just sit and do nothing.

That's just my take.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 12:25:57 AM by Luis Gonzalez »
“[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State’s right to economize when necessary …” The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).

Offline Dexter

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,244
Re: DC Democrat: Iraq 'Most Catastrophic War of the 20th Century'
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2014, 12:34:11 AM »
I think the dictator thing was an excuse.

We were going to war in that region and the outcome was uncertain. We weren't even really sure what it was that we were going to do, but we knew we had to go and show governments that we wouldn't put up with them allowing terrorists to train on their soil to attacks us. So why not begin the war by taking out the guy with the largest standing army in the region so that we don't have to worry about what he will do?

The freeing the people is how we (by and large) "sell" the war to America... it makes us nobler somehow.

The war was necessary, not as an attempt to stabilize the region... that will never be accomplished, but rather to react to an attack on our soil.

We couldn't just sit and do nothing.

That's just my take.

"The consensus of intelligence experts has been that Saddam Hussein and Al-Qaeda were in contact but it never led to an operational relationship, and that consensus is backed up by reports from the independent 9/11 Commission and by declassified Defense Department reports as well as by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, whose 2006 report of Phase II of its investigation into prewar intelligence reports concluded that there was no evidence of ties between Saddam Hussein and Al-Qaeda"

We had already attacked and invaded the country of the people that were actually responsible for attacking us. Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, so why did we need to take him out to send a message? What were we reacting to? Saddam was not in cahoots with terrorists that wanted to harm the U.S.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 12:36:28 AM by Dex4974 »
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates

Offline Luis Gonzalez

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,532
    • Boiling Frogs
Re: DC Democrat: Iraq 'Most Catastrophic War of the 20th Century'
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2014, 12:54:02 AM »
"The consensus of intelligence experts has been that Saddam Hussein and Al-Qaeda were in contact but it never led to an operational relationship, and that consensus is backed up by reports from the independent 9/11 Commission and by declassified Defense Department reports as well as by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, whose 2006 report of Phase II of its investigation into prewar intelligence reports concluded that there was no evidence of ties between Saddam Hussein and Al-Qaeda"

We had already attacked and invaded the country of the people that were actually responsible for attacking us. Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, so why did we need to take him out to send a message? What were we reacting to? Saddam was not in cahoots with terrorists that wanted to harm the U.S.

I've already answered that question, twice.

If you don't wish to accept my response, that's fine, I just don't want to waste my time repeating it.
“[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State’s right to economize when necessary …” The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).

Offline Dexter

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,244
Re: DC Democrat: Iraq 'Most Catastrophic War of the 20th Century'
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2014, 12:58:22 AM »
I've already answered that question, twice.

If you don't wish to accept my response, that's fine, I just don't want to waste my time repeating it.

You don't see a problem with starting a war with a country that didn't attack us just to send a message in the Middle East? They weren't helping terrorists or plotting against us. There is also no way Saddam would have used his Army against us had we not invaded. I don't agree that the invasion was some kind of preventative measure to ensure our safety and establish a foothold. I think blowing the shit out of Afghanistan and everything actually affiliated with Al-Qaeda sent the message that we are not to be bleep with.

EDIT: Also, sorry if I seem a little aggressive about this topic. It is a sensitive issue for me.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 01:06:51 AM by Dex4974 »
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates

Offline Luis Gonzalez

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,532
    • Boiling Frogs
Re: DC Democrat: Iraq 'Most Catastrophic War of the 20th Century'
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2014, 01:56:03 AM »
You don't see a problem with starting a war with a country that didn't attack us just to send a message in the Middle East? They weren't helping terrorists or plotting against us. There is also no way Saddam would have used his Army against us had we not invaded. I don't agree that the invasion was some kind of preventative measure to ensure our safety and establish a foothold. I think blowing the shit out of Afghanistan and everything actually affiliated with Al-Qaeda sent the message that we are not to be bleeped with.

EDIT: Also, sorry if I seem a little aggressive about this topic. It is a sensitive issue for me.

I understand that you are sensitive.

My next post will be very long and a decade old.

Lots has happened since, but the gist of the article explains what I think about the whole war (from the perspective of someone who didn't actually go there) very well.
“[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State’s right to economize when necessary …” The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf